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Anime/Manga vs. Anime/Manga STYLE |
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Uh-oh, this one's controversial. :p
From this post in the Art Discussion Forum:
I'm not trying to be a jerk, but where do you guys get your information? o.o;;;
First and foremost, this question usually sparks a friggin holy war in some forums. xd ;; Heads up on that. That being said, though, I've already seen an inability to concretely define it in these responses. Also I'm gonna use "manga" and "anime" interchangably because the same definitions apply beyond the fact that one is animated and one is on paper. whee
You can read this article on Wikipedia and get some basis:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anime
The answer depends on what country you're in. In the country that anime/manga comes from (*cough* Japan), "anime" means "animation" and "manga" means "comics" and it's as simple as that. If you speak to an elderly person in Japan, sometimes they don't even differentiate from "anime" and "manga" and use the words interchangably. In speaking about my interests with a family I stayed with in Osaka I could only say, "Manga to ka, doujinshi ga suki desu~" ("I like things like manga and doujinshi" wink . I was referring not just to comics/indie comics in Japan, but in other countries as well. These are the words one just uses in the Japanese language but they don't really hold a nationality.
Outside of Japan, it's pretty simple. Anime and manga refer to Japanese comics/animation, and not just anything that's "Asian." Korea uses "manhwa" for example, if you're talking about comics. When people who aren't Japanese draw in an "anime/manga" style, it refers to stylistic influences that come from Japanese animation, because there is definitely a different set of aesthetics that people like to adopt from the Japanese. Other terms like "American anime" come from this.
An anecdote that nods towards both of these distinctions is what a Japanese exchange student wrote in my high school yearbook. I convinced my art teacher to let me do independent drawing studies and essays on drawing/stylistic conventions in manga for a semester, which surprised my classmate. He wrote, "I was surprised (and pleased!) to see your animated drawings and hope to see your work in Japan." Note the use of the word, "animated" and how it was a nod to the fact that he knew where my influences came from but didn't know how to express this in English.
Really. It's as simple as that. Anime/manga is tied to Japan. Now here are a couple of things that I read that I feel are HUGELY misleading...
"anime is made to look more like people and is normally wacthed by teenagers, while on the other hand cartoons don't really look real and are wacthed by kids"
Watch a handful of 80's cartoons like G.I. Joe or He-Man (for example), and that "look more like people" statement makes NO sense. Both of these cartoons used more realistic proportions in their character designs than the typical big-eyes-small-mouth aesthetic in anime. Also, the amount of genres of anime is broad. In the US maybe more teenagers (and adults :p ) watch anime and more kids watch cartoons, but there are plenty of kids who have been raised on Japanese animation, plenty of anime for kids and adults in Japan (non-Japanese at first do not usually realize that some of their favorite anime are little kid shows in Japan). The "cartoons-are-for-kids" mindset is a very American sensibility but be aware there are plenty of adult cartoons, too-- before Adult Swim existed it was very hard for them to get airtime because of this rhetoric.
"artistically, meaning anime as just a style and its origins not mattering,
anime is with big eyes, mostly all done the same.. the heads are typically, round at the top, curve in at the eyes, curve back out at the cheeks, and then drop in a straight or close to straight line down to a usually pointed chin or sometimes straight-line chin. the bodies are usually close to equally proportioned the way real bodies are.
theres a lot of different styles of anime though,, that can range from hello kitty, to doraemon, to chobits. "
Dude, this paragraph just disproved itself. There IS a classic BESM (big-eyes-small-mouth) look that most adopt from anime but there are other artistic and storytelling devices that anime/manga has that are arguably from Japanese cultural concepts like "iki" and "wabi-sabi" (which are rooted very deeply into the culture, even today).
Okay, that's way more than I planned on writing. x.x
Post 2:
velvetchiharu mm.. i said at the end of my post that i wasnt completely sure of my words, and i just hoped that it sounded close to right, i dont see how that paragraph has disproved itself. the words that i used to describe everything was " mostly", " usually", and " typically", which infers that there are exceptions. at the end of the paragraph i confirmed what i inferred by saying that there were a lot of different styles of anime. she already explained that she understands that anime means cartoon in japanese, and what she wanted to know about was the art style itself used in those cartoons of japan, that many people refer to as anime. referring to the art, not the actual shows altogether. just the art. so, not only do i not really get how my paragraph has disproved itself. :/
BECAUSE she mentioned that she knew what the words meant in Japanese was why it was necessary to outline the terminology, because that's what defines the style.
Okay, so. Original question:
Quote: Thus where is the line drawn? There are many different styles of anime, but what are the characteristics that clearly define an image to be anime?
Hence, the stuff I wrote. Perhaps you missed the part where I said,
Quote:
Also I'm gonna use "manga" and "anime" interchangably because the same definitions apply beyond the fact that one is animated and one is on paper.
My use of the phrase, "storytelling device" confuses you? It's actually a very crucial qualifier. Read Scott McCloud's "Understanding Comics" where he outlines what signifies the anime/manga (read: Japanese) style in storytelling devices (which is integral to the art style). Things like the classic shot-of-sky panel is a signature of the style. "Storytelling" exists in a single frame/image as well, so:
The difference in Japanese sequential art (manga) is tied to the difference in the art from it (pinups, still shots, etc). I hope that's easy to understand.
Quote: i also dont see why you dragged in cultural concepts and storytelling devices, since she wasn't asking how the japanese shows, are different from the american shows or whatever. she wanted to know how the actual art differed
The term, "anime/manga" is derived from a Japanese style of drawing comics and animation. The implication should then be that these are this style is a product of its culture. Cultures have different sets of aesthetics and are the root of why there's even a difference. o_O The difference between Japanese and non-Japanese ANIMATED SHOWS comes from the same difference between Japanese and non-Japanese COMIC ART (this goes back to my original statement about using anime and manga interchangably and using the examples interchangably), especially since much of anime starts as manga in the first place, and both involve the art style that is defined as "anime/manga" by foreigners.
Back to the original question again. Quote: Where is the line drawn between art that is dubbed "anime" and cartoons?
My ammended answer which I hope is clearer to you:
1. In Japan, anime/manga = regular old comics and cartoons.
2. Not in Japan, anime/manga = Japanese comics and cartoons since that's what Japanese people call it.
3a. anime/manga style = a style which overtly utilizes a majority of visual conventions borrowed from the Japanese. Note that the word, "style" needs to be implied or added because it is not from Japan. This is why tacking the word, "anime/manga" is acceptable in calling one's own non-Japanese art such a thing. I should reiterate that anime and manga is still just stuff from Japan.
3b. "Stuff from Japan" = The most notable convention is the BESM one. There are other more subtle things, such as the omission of an eye in a headshot (its implication), certain canon poses in character art, eyebrows-over-hair, sweatdrops/anger veins, hyperrealistic background art, and a myriad of other visual elements, that come from an aesthetic sense all instilled by, well, BEING Japanese in a Japanese society and having things like iki and wabi-sabi ingrained into your subconsciousness. An article exists in Wizard magazine's "manga scene" column (perhaps its first one) from 1996 that introduces a list of such things.
One more time: The art styles are the heart of comics and animation, which is why it's crucial to mention them.
Why don't we use other languages' words to define their comics and cartoons beyond "[insert country here] comic"? Because the usage of the words, "anime" and "manga" are a testament to how distinctive the Japanese style is; its own genre/loan word was warranted. This is why these words exist as loan words in other languages. This is why there's a term for the drawing style. This is the starting point of everything.
Make sense? :p
Post 3:
YoakeNoOokami Wait a minute, you just conufused me here. So are you saying that anime/manga is a style, or is it something that can only be done in Japan? Or is it something that can only be made by people of Japanese birth?
The "style" part of the equation is what implies the nod to the stuff from Japan.
Think of it in terms like this: people paint in the STYLE of French impressionists, but how many need to be French impressionists to do so?
 Pink · Mon Sep 25, 2006 @ 04:21am · 0 Comments |
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