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Religious Ramblings Between Friends.
SHYNETA DORE: Yes, I would certainly believe in everything the bible says if they brought up tangible evidence. When confronted with that prospect, they respond with you have to have faith. Or you can’t know the power of God. The burden of proof is on Christianity. If I were to claim I could fly, would you not react and say show me that you can fly? If I said no you must just believe that I can fly, without evidence, I think you would think that I was either delusional or just lying to you
Drey Malic: well... where do we begin
SHYNETA DORE: :3
Drey Malic: you want evidence of a higher being? Of the stories in the bible?
SHYNETA DORE: Anything.
SHYNETA DORE: I admit some stories in the bible have historical aspects that are true
SHYNETA DORE: however things like Noah's ark? Seriously...
Drey Malic: alright
Drey Malic: well now that you mention it
Drey Malic: Noah’s Ark
Drey Malic: you made a challenge to me a long time ago
Drey Malic: and I actually have a bit of an answer for you
Drey Malic: You asked "Explain Kangaroos"
SHYNETA DORE: They said they found it in Turkey, but honestly fitting two of every animal it’s mathematically impossible. I will admit that in the past there was a localized flooding from the Mediterranean to the Black Sea that remained in the cultural consciousness, but a global deluvian flood, I think now.
Drey Malic: ok
Drey Malic: well
Drey Malic: to believe in a global deluvian
Drey Malic: and for it to be even possible
Drey Malic: we have to accept the concept of Pangaea (horrible spelling) - the idea of a single original continent
SHYNETA DORE: even if the caps melted, there still wouldn’t be a global flood though
Drey Malic: In our day, yes
Drey Malic: because we see the mountains, the highlands and the difference in altitude
Drey Malic: In our day there's nowhere near enough water for a flood like that
Drey Malic: now the problem with the flood
Drey Malic: is that it requires theory
Drey Malic: and giving solid proof is ridiculously hard
Drey Malic: I accept the challenge
Drey Malic: the first chapters of the bible
Drey Malic: if we say that it's true
Drey Malic: when a higher authority created the world
SHYNETA DORE: You can't use the concept of Pangaea, which is millions of years into the past.
Drey Malic: just hold on
Drey Malic: I never said that the earth was only 6k years old
Drey Malic: the bible doesn't either
SHYNETA DORE: Yes, but you can't just pick out what suits you in Christian doctrine.
Drey Malic: I’m not
SHYNETA DORE: brb keep typing, mom calling me to dinner
Drey Malic: kk
SHYNETA DORE: type in one block of text
SHYNETA DORE: :3
Drey Malic: will do
Drey Malic: I’m going to use only the original 66 books of the bible that fit the cannon. The catholic bible has about 72 books and they altered a lot of the original manuscript. Anyways that's not what I want to talk about. The original bible in the beginning speaks of a world where there was only water visible and that God Hovered over the water. First day he created light, second day he 'separated' the skies from the water. Third day he raised the earth from the water and called it dry land. Then the following days he creates the things that exist within these realms. Fourth day he creates the stars, moon, sun and etc. Fifth day he creates birds and aquatic animals. Sixth day he creates animals, and man. Seventh Day he creates a day of simple rest and he sanctifies this day. That’s a quick paraphrase. The second day is what I want to talk about to even make the concept of Globalized deluvian being possible. On this day the Lord God, separated the skies from the water. He quote on quote separated the atmospheres. When he did this, what several other theologians have also come to accept is that he didn't just make the atmosphere and settled the sea, but he also created something we like to call a Hydrosphere around the earth. The idea of then the earth being surrounded by a layer of water. If the air under the hydrosphere was indeed as dense as expected and hot as thought, the hydrosphere is very much possible as it is literally floating above the thick and dense bubble of air. Theologians also speak of the time of Noah and explain why a Deluvian Flood being so strange because in that time, rain as we know it now, didn't exist. The concept was that the earth was at that time fertile and it was then watered not via rain but by a constant sensation of dew. Now we take that water to be true, we also believe that under most of the landmass during that time having a lot of underground water reservoirs. This is accepted and proven by atheists and believers alike. Great caves and underwater reservoirs still plague the underground of all of our continents. Now we incorporate the mix of hydrosphere and great quantities of underwater reservoirs and the fact that if Pangaea was indeed a single and whole original continent, it wouldn't have great mountains or high platforms. The concept of Mountains and High platforms is only possible because of the crunching of the tectonic plates that are pushing and crunching against each other. What the bible explains that happens is that waters from the skies (Hydrosphere) and waters from below (great quantities from underground) broke open and poured themselves upon the earth. The bubble burst and the hydrosphere collapsed drenching the planet, the earth's underwater reservoirs broke open and for the sake of imagination let’s say a geyser the size of Alaska burst through the very center of this original continent. Roughly where the Atlantic is now. The force of the water falling and the water erupting was enough to actually start the function of the tectonic plates. It's from this mass quantity of water and force that created the mountains and various other higher parts of elevation. Matter of fact, there's a reason why the Flood only lasted 40 days and forty nights, it would only take that long till the waters started to recede and the continents started to shift and move in their directions. Researchers have documented that some of the great forests found across the world that still have datings to be old enough to have existed after the flood or during the flood have their roots that appear to have been pushed from one place to another, like as if it were pushed with great force by something. They don't look like they were demolished from what would happen if an asteroid hit the earth
Drey Malic: ****
Drey Malic: but they look like as if there was something strong enough to actually push it so very far away. There's were you get the water from. Next, Kangaroos. In the bible we have a lot of genealogies and one of the first ones we have (2nd one actually) is that of Noah and his family. Back in that time, they gave name to their sons and daughters according to how the world looked around them. The eighth son in the line of Noah, (I can't recall his name and I’m typing so I'll get later) was named in a way that actually refers to meaning "returning of the waters" it meant the waters stopped receding and started to settled. Now I said earlier that the continents started to split and create tectonic plates and creating elevation and the sorts. Now when you drop a porcelain plate on the ground and it breaks, due to momentum, if an edge off that plate breaks off, it actually goes out farther than the part that it broke off from. This is the same principle used to describe how Australia split away from the rest of the continents. Now it's not like the mass of earth of that quantity would split off that fast that in one day it would be gone and out to sea. That momentum has a lot of counter force to push against at first. I need to dip quickly into the bible to continue this. The Bible does not condone the thought of Evolution; it condones the idea that man was at one point a peaty dish of acids and fluids. The Bible is reasonable in that respect; it accepts the fact that with adaptation there comes in micro-evolution. Such as the ability to stand on hind legs and not on all fours. Or the difference from a wolf and the bear even though they have the same common ancestor. Micro-evolutions are completely viable. Matter of fact I love the idea. What Noah had in the Ark wasn't two of each animal, but more like a pair of each unclean ancestral animal and seven clean ancestral animals. Just enough in fact that wen released back into the wild and on earth they can then spread, multiply and diversify. So, Kangaroos, Australia... A group of animals that were simply migrating when set free upon the world were then at the wrong place and at the wrong time when Australia separated from Asia / Africa. According to most scientists, India was part of Africa that broke off and collided with Asia, that actually makes sense if the tectonic plates of Australia and India split and then pushed off of each other and made India collide with Asia while Australia continued to drift off into no where’s land.
Drey Malic: That’s water, kangaroos, Australia.... and now....
Drey Malic: um
Drey Malic: the actual Ark.
Drey Malic: This is one of the founding reasons of why people can't accept the idea of the flood. There's no possible way that a ship built during that time could ever, ever survive a deluvian flood that was strong enough to withstand waters, swells and currents that would have caused the end of the world at that time and place. The founding reason behind this is that at that time they didn't have the technology possible to build a ship that long, they didn't have a way to make the ship water logged, and most of all it shouldn't be able to withstand waves and swells of that size. Well my first argument for that is that Noah wasn't the one who came up with the ship structure or plans for it. He wasn't the one who decided what would go where and when. The bible states clearly that it was God who divined upon Noah and gave Noah the plans for the Ark. Now for the sake of the argument, if you don't want to accept that it was "God" because we haven't given any proof of the matter that a God exists, well fine, believe it was aliens instead of God then. But the bible simply states that a Higher Authority gave Noah the plans for the Ark. With that being said, Noah didn't use plans or knowledge that even possible for others at the time. At that time, Noah was granted with knowledge beyond his own and told how to make it work. Now this Ark wasn't built to be navigated, it wasn't built to go from point a to point b. It was created instead to stay in one piece and not fall apart. Now this higher authority who gave Noah the plans, gave him the plans for a damned good reason, the higher authority knew what was coming and explained it very well. He would not just know what was coming but probably also from where it would come from. If you therefore know where the water and the deluvian flood are going to come, you can indeed simulate the waves and the swells for such a storm. Most of these swells and waves would be coming from one blunt direction. This being known, one can prepare to deal with the swells, waves and not have to worry about the ship toppling over. The main point of this is to explain that the Ark may have been built by human hands, but it sure as hell was not a knowledge that normal humans had at that time.
Drey Malic: my fingers hurt
Drey Malic: >.>
Drey Malic: The flood... -condensed simplified and very much paraphrased.
Drey Malic: anyways, SD I want to continue this convo
SHYNETA DORE: But the basis for all this is God. Which you haven't given any proof of. Without proving the existence of God, everything you just said is unfounded. Sorry :3
Drey Malic: But I really need to get going D:
Drey Malic: ugh
SHYNETA DORE: : )
Drey Malic: you want proof of the flood and you wanted some basis for it
Drey Malic: I gave you that
SHYNETA DORE: The real root of the problem is existence of a higher power.
Drey Malic: or at least why I could in a short hour of writing
Drey Malic: ok
Drey Malic: You claimed that Humans created gods and religions to better explain life and death
Drey Malic: Most religions tell you that when you die, you go to heaven, hell or purgatory.
Drey Malic: The bible bluntly states contrary to that
Drey Malic: The concept of Purgatory was made by the Papal Roman Empire to make people buy Indulgences to give you pardons of your sins. Purgatory is pure lies.
Drey Malic: Hell, some people say that hell is a place deep beneath the ground where the devil tortures and hurts those who have committed sins and have been found guilty. That’s false.
Drey Malic: Hell is a future place and conditions not a present active place or condition
Drey Malic: And No, Satan will not rule over hell, he will suffer and die the most and worst there.
SHYNETA DORE: Hm. Burden of proof is always on the person presenting the evidence.
Drey Malic: yes
Drey Malic: I’m working on something
Drey Malic: Just keep reading
Drey Malic: Purgatory idea, bunch of lies. Hell idea, mostly distorted and not something that exists now. Those sentenced to hell will NOT burn eternally. The actual verse says "...They will burn in eternal fires..." That does not mean that they will burn for eternity, it means that the actual fires cannot be put out or quenched.
Drey Malic: Then comes the idea of heaven. Yes there is a heaven. NO you do not go to heaven when you die. God is in heaven, he resides there while his Son - Jesus - is sorting out who will be with them in heaven and who will not. How can he judge who goes and who doesn't? He knows you better than you know yourself. He knows your thoughts, your 'heart' and soul.
Drey Malic: The bible says bluntly that when one dies they die. "... The dead do not sin for the dead are dead and they do not know what they do... "
Drey Malic: When we die, that's just it, you die. Your body decomposes, becomes fertilizer
Drey Malic: If the bible is to be believed and credited, there will be a Resurrection at the time of the end of the earth. At this point Jesus and God will return and resurrect the dead who have died and are worthy of heaven. In this instance the wicked humans will die and the earth will be desolate for millennia in which the Devil will be imprisoned here on earth.
Drey Malic: His imprisonment is kind of like saying you're stuck here on earth and you can't go anywhere. Your only company will be the angels you pulled down from the heavens with you when you fell - i.e. demons.
Drey Malic: After the millennia, God returns to see that judgment is passed on
SHYNETA DORE: Though, if God is omnipotent, he should already know who is just, and who is evil, there is no free will given.
Drey Malic: He, God the Father, does know
Drey Malic: God the Son - Jesus - Doesn't
Drey Malic: God the Holy Spirit is who is here on Earth and who guides you.
Drey Malic: anyways, back on topic
Drey Malic: After the millennia, God comes down with the worthy and to earth; here there is a second resurrection. All the wicked who are unworthy of heaven are resurrected. It's said they will form an army with Lucifer/Satan/Devil [<- pick your name] as the leader.
Drey Malic: they will then attempt waging battle against God.
Drey Malic: God will bluntly say, "No." And this is when Hell comes in.
SHYNETA DORE: God the Father and God the Son are one and the same.
Drey Malic: Hell or the eternal fires that burn the wicked.
Drey Malic: Kind of
SHYNETA DORE: Kind of?
Drey Malic: not one in the same
Drey Malic: ugh
Drey Malic: SD...
SHYNETA DORE: Council of Nicea says that they are
SHYNETA DORE: :3
Drey Malic: I don't have time to explain it all
SHYNETA DORE: haha.
Drey Malic: ugh
SHYNETA DORE: it’s okay. I think it’s all silly anyway biggrin We shouldn’t need religion to tell us to be moral.
Drey Malic: God the Father - God the Son - God the Holy Spirit -> they are all one in the same but still not one being. They are their own beings in self, and they all have a centered self, that does not mean that they are hive minded so to speak. God the Son - Jesus, says himself in the bible that he doesn't know the future; Only God the Father knows the future.
Drey Malic: If Christianity wasn't so distorted and screwed in a thousand ways, we wouldn't have atheism at all. (My opinion)
SHYNETA DORE: ha-ha. The fact that they are so fractured makes one think they all are wrong. But the original form of Christianity DOES say that God the father and god the son and the Holy Spirit are one and being with the father. That is what has been written. Different sects branched off because they thought otherwise, but that was the law when Christianity first became the state religion of the Roman Empire.
Drey Malic: Yes... kind of
Drey Malic: they are one in the same
Drey Malic: but they aren't hive minded
Drey Malic: that was shown to us when Jesus spent his time here on earth with us
SHYNETA DORE: its three people one being.
Drey Malic: yes
SHYNETA DORE: Jesus came down from heaven; he was God the Father and the Holy Spirit. He was 100 percent god and 100 percent man
Drey Malic: think.... .... ugh... Cerberus
Drey Malic: three headed hell hound
SHYNETA DORE: the divine nature and the man nature of Christ was decided in an ecumenical council during the 5th century
Drey Malic: they are three dogs in one body but not all having the same thoughts
Drey Malic: does that make any sense XD
Drey Malic: ?
SHYNETA DORE: these ecumenical councils tried to establish orthodoxy so there wouldn’t be a splintered religion.
SHYNETA DORE: I find the early church endlessly fascinating
Drey Malic: The trinity, or the three in one being, they're three in one, yes. They're 99.999999999999999-> to the infinitesimal decimal % in sync
Drey Malic: But there are things that God the Father knows or can do that God the Son does not do or cannot do, Same with God the Holy Ghost and vice versa...
Drey Malic: and yea
Drey Malic: anyways
Drey Malic: oomph
Drey Malic: now I get your messages from a minute ago
SHYNETA DORE: smile
Drey Malic: Jesus is god the Son and NO he is not God the Father.
SHYNETA DORE: Yes he is
Drey Malic: We see that plain as day in his baptism
Drey Malic: He rose from the waters in his human body and God the Father speaks. "This is my Son in whom I am Well Pleased."
SHYNETA DORE: This was already argued at the first ecumenical council in 325 Drey. Arianism was branded heretical for teaching what you are telling me.
Drey Malic: Yes
SHYNETA DORE: The fact that you believe in something different from what the original Christians believed should tell you a lot about the falseness of religion
Drey Malic: that council was also the council who decided that when chest spoke to the thief on the cross next to him that "Surely I tell you, Today I will see you in paradise"
SHYNETA DORE: ^I don't think so
Drey Malic: Though the most correct and Canon manner that it should have been written was "Surely I tell you today, I will see you in paradise"
Drey Malic: I’m not disagreeing with the original Christians. The original Christians occurred during 30-100 ad
Drey Malic: 300+ Ad Christians had already been tainted by the pagan concepts of the world around them.
SHYNETA DORE: Hahaha
SHYNETA DORE: Tainted? They took so much from pagans.
SHYNETA DORE: That is the most terrible argument I have yet heard
Drey Malic: I was being nice with my words
SHYNETA DORE: :3
SHYNETA DORE: Constantine would not have converted to Christianity had he realized how sectarian Christianity was. He would have stuck to paganism which was similar in the believes of many different Gods. Each sect of Christianity believed something different forming recognizably different forms of God.
Drey Malic: yes, after a few centuries of Christians being left to their own devices they ... well failed at being Christians.
SHYNETA DORE: ha-ha
Drey Malic: I won't deny the truth
SHYNETA DORE: Atheism is wonderful because you don't feel tied down trying to commune with an invisible being, but instead work to know your fellow man and help him
SHYNETA DORE: brb need to shower :3
Drey Malic: I believe in what you call an invisible being, but I don't feel tied down to a load of unrealistic obligations and regulations. Ever since man has refused to accept that a higher authority created him, they've been trying to find hundreds of other ways to explain life. Yet when attempted to reproduce or make possible in theory the origin of life, man fails. What I find hard to believe is not in God, but in the absurdities man tries to fathom to fill in the gap of God.
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