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Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 3:16 pm
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Now, I promise I'm not trying to make anyone mad or anything, but I'd just like to say what's on my mind and maybe get some of my facts straight if any details are hazy or incorrect. (They probably will be hazy, I'll try not to be incorrect)
Gardner started reviving the Craft in the 50's and it seems to me that he became a sort of self-elected Wicca-Pope. From what I've gathered on him, he believed in a very elitist witch society, one where is was black and white whether someone could or couldn't be a witch. He also condemned many acts and behaviors as being wrong, but the Golden Rule itself is "An it harm none, do what ye will." (He was quoted later by one in his own coven by yelling "A homosexual can never be a witch!")
As well as condemning things, he also attempted to establish a set of rules or a holy book for that was required for a "real" witch to follow. The Craft is supposed to be about finding your own truth and your own path, practicing how you please and doing whatever you feel brings you closer to the God(s) and Goddess(es), provided it isn't harming anyone. I know that he's the one that started calling it Wicca, and if the name of the religion is the issue, he and his followers can have it, and I'll just practice as a solitary Pagan, with no official religious title.
In my opinion it's when religions start forming set rules to follow and denying the individual's right to discover their own truth and do things as differently as they please is where the religion turns sour.
All of us do have Gardner to thank, however, for the revival of Paganism, and more specifically Witchcraft, so it is more known and accepted in mainstream society. Most of us would have never even heard of Wicca if it weren't for Gardner's work, even though I don't agree with him on many levels.
So do you agree with me, or not? I hope I haven't angered anybody, but if I have, so be it. I want to discuss this with others as much as I wanted to say it in the first place. If you disagree with me totally, post or send me a PM and I'll have an intelligent debate with you, and maybe you can clear up details you may think I know nothing about.
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Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 3:48 pm
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Will-Nacht Gardner started reviving the Craft in the 50's and it seems to me that he became a sort of self-elected Wicca-Pope. Inaccurate. Depending on who you speak to- Gardner either was initiated into a coven, or created his own coven and Wicca, the Religion from a mix of mysticism from YHVH's faiths, Hellenic elemental systems, information from the Rroma and by mixing Slavic, Norse and Celtic holidays.
Quote: From what I've gathered on him, he believed in a very elitist witch society, one where is was black and white whether someone could or couldn't be a witch. Gardner made no claims to speak for witches as a whole. He did lay down the rules for people who wished to belong to the Religion he addressed/created.
Quote: He also condemned many acts and behaviors as being wrong, but the Golden Rule itself is "An it harm none, do what ye will." (He was quoted later by one in his own coven by yelling "A homosexual can never be a witch!") An over simplification to say the least. Reducing the 161 Laws to one line is a little difficult to swallow in a proper discussion. Further- may I have a citation of him saying a homosexual can never be a witch? While I am aware of Alex Saunder's split due to Gardner's position as to the nature of the Fertility Cult, I don't recall him addressing the use of the word Witch in such a way.
Quote: As well as condemning things, he also attempted to establish a set of rules or a holy book for that was required for a "real" witch to follow. Wiccans- not the whole of witchdom.
Quote: Wicca is supposed to be about finding your own truth and your own path, practicing how you please and doing whatever you feel brings you closer to the God(s) and Goddess(es), provided it isn't harming anyone. Is it?
For one, I don't recall any prohibitions against harming anyone. Second, why would you be under the impression that Wicca is about finding your path, and not the Lord and Lady's path?
Quote: All of us do have Gardner to thank, however, for the revival of Paganism, and more specifically Witchcraft, I'd disagree with this as well. As soon as the last laws against Witchcraft were repealed in what? 1949? ('48?) there was a flood of books on the market.
Quote: Most of us would have never even heard of Wicca if it weren't for Gardner's work, even though I don't agree with him on many levels. Agreed. Because without Gardner- there would be no Wicca.
Edit: Witches? Witchcults? Of course! But no Wicca.
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Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 4:32 pm
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Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 4:49 pm
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Will-Nacht True, thanks for clearing this up for me. From what I had previously gathered of Gardner, he seemed kind of.... scary. You're more generous than I. I think he was a right misogynistic b*****d.
Quote: All the same, I still don't find myself a big fan of his personal work, I find the mythos he presented as interesting. But not interesting enough to warrent conversion.
Quote: aside from the basic idea of his help with the revival. I wouldn't call it a revival really. But that's me.
So- basically, as long as you don't confuse Wicca with Witchcraft and don't try to claim Wicca when you aren't an initiated member of the Wiccan Lord and Lady's fertility cult- with the name of the same, you shouldn't have any problems.
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Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 4:58 pm
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Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 12:48 am
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Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 6:38 am
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Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 11:04 am
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Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 11:25 am
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Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2007 1:32 am
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Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2007 6:34 am
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Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2007 8:08 am
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Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 2:06 am
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Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 3:54 pm
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