Straight guys? In my BL?

[Skizzors]

"Straight, macho Taki and shy, effeminate Goh are an expert team of bandits hired by the police to steal from the mafia."
"What begins as a drunken lark soon becomes a passionate affair. But Renji and Youichi aren’t really gay… or are they?"


The above quotes have been brought to you from yaoi manga. Both rated 18+, both, I assume, containing graphic consensual gay sex. Correct me if I'm wrong -- but I think you get the point. Keeping an eye on the BL industry lately, it seems as if more and more series, especially those being translated and released by DMP's June imprint, are about.. straight guys. Sorry, what?

Now, I'm well aware of closeted gays. If this were merely a case of main characters trying to convince themselves they liked girls, well, maybe this thread would be about the lack of self-identified gays. But that ain't the case, and this thread asks: where my gay guys at?

We've got back-cover summaries and omniscient narrators telling me, this guy who ends up in bed with this other guy in volume four? He is a first-rate 100% heterosexual, no doubt about it. And here's his boyfriend. This is where I have a problem: if he is heterosexual, he isn't going to turn gay, no matter how hot the other guy is. Say he's questioning, fine, unsure, even in denial -- but he is NOT straight.

What is this? What's going on?

Me, personally, mucking around with this kind of stuff, even in fiction and even for humorous purposes, it just pisses me off. Saying a character is straight but in love with a man -- pisses me off. Saying a character used to be straight until he met Mr. Right -- pisses me off. He could've thought he was straight. Wished he was straight. But he wasn't.


Is this an extension of that "BL gives the fangirl a chance to insert herself into the mind of one of the boys, without having to be jealous of a female character" thing? Are we so desperate to have our fantasies that we claim these guys are straight, even though they're screwing each other?
Or do we, in fact, no longer like straight guys? Are we convincing ourselves they can become gay? Is this the product of a massive fangirl conspiracy to turn all male heterosexuals into raging fairies?

The above questions are jokes. (Well, not the first one so much.) My question to you is this: what the hell is happening to our gay porn that it no longer involves gay men?  

[SilverMaple]

Yeah, it bothers me too. I prefer it when my characters are gay, or at the very least bi.

I mean, let's say they're discovering their sexuality like you said, then it's understandable.

But the whole, "Oh, I'm straight! But I'm screwing a dude" thing is complete bullshit. Pardon my language.

You should post that question to all yaoi mangaka who do this. :O

Also, if it was a fangirl's wish fulfillment so she's not jealous, wouldn't it be better for her if the guys were completely gay, so there's no chance of them running off with a female character and have the fangirls go into total jealous rage?

Poor fictional characters. xd They get no rest!  

[Skizzors]

If the characters were described as completely gay, sure, it'd block out the possibility of female character interaction, but it'd also get rid of the fangirls' chances, being female.. but fangirls have never taken that seriously before. Fanfic ought to show well enough how established heterosexuality means nothing to the fangirl -- so why are we now apparently edging away from established homosexuality?  

[User_2629207]

Well, It CAN be a bit annoying when everyone pretends to be straight in every single series. But I still think it's rather cute when they are in denial... ^^;;
Sushii believes that all human beings are bisexual, a straight woman can fall in love with another woman, a straight man can fall in love with another man, and so on, it just depends on what they are generally more attracted to.
I think that an equal balance is the best thing to go for. Some of the characters can claim to be straight, but not too many.  

[Skizzors]

Sushii-Princess

Well, It CAN be a bit annoying when everyone pretends to be straight in every single series. But I still think it's rather cute when they are in denial... ^^;;
Sushii believes that all human beings are bisexual, a straight woman can fall in love with another woman, a straight man can fall in love with another man, and so on, it just depends on what they are generally more attracted to.
I think that an equal balance is the best thing to go for. Some of the characters can claim to be straight, but not too many.

Sorry, I don't get what you mean. To me, you're born as whatever you are, and that could be straight, bi, gay, pan, asexual.. whatever. That kind of label is your potential: if you could potentially fall in love with only the same gender, gay. If you could fall in love with anyone, pan. Only those who are strictly male or female, bi.

So, by my understanding, a straight woman could never fall in love with a woman. Sure, a woman could fall in love with a woman, but then she wouldn't be straight.


As for the topic, I'm not talking about the characters themselves saying they're straight. I'm saying that when omniscient narrators say a character is straight, despite being with the same gender, something's up.  

[Sheard]

This is why I tend to like shounen ai more than outright yaoi for the most part. It's a bit hard to pull that on the reader when the mangaka cannot just use a graphic sex scene an excuse to develop a relationship. They're pretty much forced to develop the characters more emotionally or at least have them gay to begin with.  

[LadyNox]

I think there are a couple factors that need to be taken into account when reading any kind of BL (be it full of smut or not). One is that Japan hasn't really had a full on gay movement like we've had in the states and secondly is that most mangaka don't actually know real gay people. Both are obvious the moment you crack open any BL manga. There's a reason BL is considered a shoujo manga sub genre. Most gay men I know don't exactly adhere to BL stereotypes, even the "femmy" ones. It makes a little more sense why you see that "I'm only gay for you" trend in many BL books when you take those factors into account

It makes the characters almost like soul mates that way. I don't really buy this but one could argue that they are so in love that they don't even care about their sexual orientation. Of course it's not realistic, but I've seen guys lubricate out of their asses in yaoi... This is not a genre that lends itself to realism.

If it makes you feel better I've seen a lot of BL manga characters state very clearly that they are homosexual lately. I remember a time when writers just didn't mention sexuality or the character was "just in love with him". So it is a big old step in the right direction.  

[For-Chan Cookie]

Since when have yaoi fantasies ever been politically correct? Of course it's going to say that they're straight. It causes more angst and confusion brought on through denial. Saying they're "questioning" gives a hint of a possibility. Where's the excitement in that? Yaoi is not and never has been and god forbid it ever is politically correct xp

Personally, I think you're reading way too much into this. One has to remember that actual yaoi comes from Japan where there are some cultural differences, thus leading to a different portrayal of characters. They're writing strict fantasy material for other women. They're not trying to follow a westerner's idea of things. They're not trying to make statements about sexuality or gay rights or anything like that. They're just giving you a dose of boy love for fantasy purposes. They're not writing "Gay porn". Gay porn is another genre completely. They're writing "female fantasies with men who ******** other men." If you don't like that, start reading slash or gay novels, because yaoi is not and will not ever be Politically Correct.  

[User_2629207]

Skizzors

Sushii-Princess

Well, It CAN be a bit annoying when everyone pretends to be straight in every single series. But I still think it's rather cute when they are in denial... ^^;;
Sushii believes that all human beings are bisexual, a straight woman can fall in love with another woman, a straight man can fall in love with another man, and so on, it just depends on what they are generally more attracted to.
I think that an equal balance is the best thing to go for. Some of the characters can claim to be straight, but not too many.

Sorry, I don't get what you mean. To me, you're born as whatever you are, and that could be straight, bi, gay, pan, asexual.. whatever. That kind of label is your potential: if you could potentially fall in love with only the same gender, gay. If you could fall in love with anyone, pan. Only those who are strictly male or female, bi.

So, by my understanding, a straight woman could never fall in love with a woman. Sure, a woman could fall in love with a woman, but then she wouldn't be straight.


As for the topic, I'm not talking about the characters themselves saying they're straight. I'm saying that when omniscient narrators say a character is straight, despite being with the same gender, something's up.

What I mean is, you don't really have any control over who you fall in love with. I mean, I've only been attracted to boys so far, but who knows, maybe a really nice girl will come along and I'll start liking her? If that would happen, my straightness can do nothing to change that.  

[Sheard]

LadyNox

This is not a genre that lends itself to realism.

That comment could probably be applied to pretty much all manga. I don't think I've read any manga that I would consider to fall within the realm of realism.  

[Lenre Li]

Taki + Goh = Yellow = hot. XD Taki's just in denial... But at least there's hot scenes in it... *lick lips* Most yaoi mangas/animes just have a decidedly straight guy so the gay guy can "convert" him... at least, my opnion of it...

Yeah, but Yellow, totally hot. <.<;

Off-topic, love your siggy Sheard! :3  

[Skizzors]

Aw. You're all making good points and I don't know what to say anymore. xd

If the characters identify as straight but learn otherwise, if they're denial or just haven't had any homosexual desires, then whatever. It's when the cover or something says it. My mind tells me, "the cover says this man is straight. Therefore, he will not be engaging in homosexual behavior." To me, even if you could fall in love with one member of the same gender, and they're the ONLY person of that gender you could fall in love with, you're not "straight but in love." What's it for the Kinsey scale, incidental homosexual? You move up a rank in gay.

I guess Fumi Yoshinaga's my best bet now for at least somewhat realistic gay guys in English (nix the gay of demonic charm concept).. otherwise, unless I switch to bara.. >>;  

[Kitsune-chi]

Honestly? Angst. It's used for angst. "Oh noez! I might be attracted to him? Could I be gay? Gasp, shock, insert personal inner struggle here."

Or the romantic ideal of, "I didn't fall for you because you're a man, I fell in love with you for you." Which, don't get me wrong, is a beautiful ideal in theory, but it's not realistic. (Which, as many have said, BL/Yaoi is not in the first place.) If you are a man who fell in love with another man, you are gay to some degree. S'how it works.

It's not as if it's a huge turn-off when it's used, it's just a little far-fetched.

Once again, BL/Yaoi almost always is.  

[Spontanious Alias]

What really grinds my gears is the fact that if two men have gay sex, it's the one on the bottom that is considered the gay in the situation. But isn't the guy doing him gay for... well doing him? So there's another one huh? huh? And I know exactly what manga your talking about. It's so GAH! Their straight or gay. NOT BOTH, unless your BI but that means your still HALF gay. So technically if your doing another guy, your still gay. Gay is Gay, no matter what the damn people say. Maybe their bicurious. Well, they still are gay. SO yeah. Go one way or the other. You can never be straight if your screwing a guy. I don't care if your like almighty, our still gay if you screw a guy. Okay good, point across

Riyu.  

[Metallic Rosae]

Skizzors

what the hell is happening to our gay porn that it no longer involves gay men?

rofl That is my new fav quote.

~Riyu Umi Renku~

Their straight or gay. NOT BOTH, unless your BI but that means your still HALF gay.

Or pan, in which case you're all straight and all gay while actually being neither. Yay for existentialism.


Personally, I think they're just doing a clumsy job of trying to add angst and personal conflict. Of course, as long as it has graphic scenes and hot guys, they're still going to sell, so the publishers probably don't care that much.