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 Posted: Wed May 09, 2007 7:50 pm
One thing I've always disliked about BL/Yaoi is the lack of subtlety. It just seems to be:
-Boy meets boy.
-One boy inexplicably falls in love with said boy.
-Angst, (AKA the OMG-how-can-I-be-gay-period or the ever popular he-could-never-like-me-trial, or the Grr-I-hate-him-but-inside-I-don't tangent.)
-Misunderstanding, or intrusion from former friend/girlfriend/boyfriend. Ohnoez, conflict. >_>
-ANGST.
-ANGST.
-ANGST.
-Teary love confession post misunderstanding
-Sex and/or loving/hot make-out scene.
-The End.
Er.
Yeah, that's great and all, but only after the first FIFTY TIMES YOU SEE IT.
I'm sorry, but I'd like to see something... different. Maybe they don't end up together in the end. Maybe the guy actually ends up falling for somebody else. Not once in all of Yaoi manga have I seen a main protaganist man fall in love with a man, but then meet a different man who ends up being better for him later on. You see it all the time in het manga, anyway. And hell, maybe their feelings DON'T have to be completely hidden until the end, either. Ever think of that? In real life, one usually has an inkling of the feelings one has for another, and while they're reciprocated, neither does anything about it for a bit. Or, one character is aware of the other's feelings, quite obviously so, but isn't sure what to do. That's one of the reasons I loved Fake. There was never a straight answer given out right till the end.
So tell me. What is a series you found broke from the norm and wasn't afraid to be unique?
Discuss~
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Posted: Wed May 09, 2007 7:59 pm
Yeah. I guess you're right. But over time all of the good, original ideas get used up and we have to settle for reruns. I dislike it too, but...all we can do is pray for new stuff.
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Posted: Wed May 09, 2007 9:00 pm
I've found a few where they accept the gender issue and just fall in love, the sweet & cute way.
I'm not one for angst, so I really like that kind of story.
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Posted: Thu May 10, 2007 3:15 pm
Um, Big Long Complicated Name (Kusatta.. Kyou.. something) kind of has "falling in love with something else." For a tiny bit. In the beginning. ..I think. It's good anyway.
There are a few others I've seen/read that skip over the ZOMGS I AM A GAY aspect: Menkui (little of it in the beginning, but it quickly goes away and the focus of the story turns to their developing relationship), Seikimatsu Darling (actually a parody, they're the same age & height so because of the classic rules, they don't know which should be seme).. there's also Antique Bakery where the gay character confesses and is rejected, but that's not a BL.
And don't forget the surprising twist!: "I was actually in love with you the whole time, too!"
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Posted: Thu May 10, 2007 5:05 pm
 yeah, that whole standard storyline for EVERY SINGLE BL manga known to man is kinda annoying the 100th time you've read it. I tend to not like canon parings for that reason ... it's the same crap every time!
I've given up on finding a good BL manga so now i just stick with doujinshis and the like. the less talking the better, dammit. )<
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Posted: Thu May 10, 2007 8:45 pm
Your formula for yaoi is hilarious and true. But you can make a formula like that for every genre, for lack of a better word, out there. You gotta remember that 1) yaoi isn't about plot, it's about pr0n. They only care about getting to the pr0n. 2) Original ideas are hard to come by. Usually, when reading yaoi (or anything really) I'm happy if the author tried to make that tired old story their own. Did they write the characters differently? Is there something new and novel there?
But you are right. 90% of the yaoi we get is about two dudes having a misunderstanding and getting together. Nothing remotely different. This is why I love reading stories about characters who are already in relationships. There are different dynamics going on and there are so many different directions you can take the stories. My three absolute favorites are Kodaka Kazuma's Kizuna, Youka Nitta's Haru wo Daiteita (there's a mini story in that series called Winter Cicada that you should definitely watch/read, you don't need to know a thing about Haru to watch it), and Minami Ozaki Zetsuai. These books are so awesome. heart
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Posted: Fri May 11, 2007 11:01 am
That is so true!!!!! Finallly someone else has noticed this! But it's happened everywhere-not just in BL. Movies, videogames-you name it. People make what they think other people want to see-which means cliche ridden crap. Every zombie movie is the same, every vampire novel, and every romance story(het or otherwise.) All of the originality has drained from the world. But......If you want to see an unsterotipical (sp) yaoi, I'd suggest you check out my journal soon........when it's done. Sorry for that blantent self promotion. Um.....I'd write more on that, but I'm outta time.
^w~
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Posted: Fri May 11, 2007 12:29 pm
It's not just BL that follows that formula. Look at anything by Rumiko Takahashi (Ranma 1/2, InnuYasha) for example. Her stuff all follows the same exact formula:
- boy meets girl
- they fall in love
- they deny their love and fight all the time
- everyone else loves them, but they would rather fight with each other than go date someone else
- conflict
- conflict
- conflict
- conflict
- conflict
- teary love confession post misunderstanding
- the end
Oh yea and her characters in her current series look a lot like her all her characters in her prior series. It's like she's drawing the same boy and girl all the time, just renaming them and giving slight variations like different hair or tacking on animal ears.
My point being that BL/Yaoi isn't the only type of manga that is guilty of following set formulas.
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Posted: Fri May 11, 2007 3:26 pm
Yeah I understand what you mean. I do get kinda sick of that after a while. I personally like Man's Best Friend (from the creator of Wild Rock). I think it's pretty unique. It's a few stories that involve a boy falling in love with his dog who turns in a guy, a boy who gets a goldfish that turns into a guy, and a really cute story about two childhood friends and the male friend thought his childhood friend was a girl until they meet up again.
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Posted: Fri May 11, 2007 9:16 pm
Skizzors Um, Big Long Complicated Name (Kusatta.. Kyou.. something) kind of has "falling in love with something else." For a tiny bit. In the beginning. ..I think. It's good anyway. There are a few others I've seen/read that skip over the ZOMGS I AM A GAY aspect: Menkui ( little of it in the beginning, but it quickly goes away and the focus of the story turns to their developing relationship), Seikimatsu Darling (actually a parody, they're the same age & height so because of the classic rules, they don't know which should be seme).. there's also Antique Bakery where the gay character confesses and is rejected, but that's not a BL. And don't forget the surprising twist!: "I was actually in love with you the whole time, too!" *Goes all sparkly* Oooh, you just named a few of my favorites. =D *loves on Menkui and Seikimatsu Darling* Never read Antique bakery though. Prolly should. *mulls over this* Anywho. And yes, I did forget the "surprising twist." *snicker*
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Posted: Fri May 11, 2007 9:18 pm
Sheard It's not just BL that follows that formula. Look at anything by Rumiko Takahashi (Ranma 1/2, InnuYasha) for example. Her stuff all follows the same exact formula: - boy meets girl - they fall in love - they deny their love and fight all the time - everyone else loves them, but they would rather fight with each other than go date someone else - conflict - conflict - conflict - conflict - conflict - teary love confession post misunderstanding - the end Oh yea and her characters in her current series look a lot like her all her characters in her prior series. It's like she's drawing the same boy and girl all the time, just renaming them and giving slight variations like different hair or tacking on animal ears. My point being that BL/Yaoi isn't the only type of manga that is guilty of following set formulas. You have a very good point. I just think that with BL, the tendencies become more apparent because usually it's just all about the BL, without any kind of sub genre appearing in the midst, like fantasy or action or sci fi or something. Usually it's just a romance story (Excluding Loveless, I s'pose) I guess that is what bothers me more. Eheheh. I've never really cared for Rumiko Takahashi myself.
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Posted: Fri May 11, 2007 9:29 pm
Hrm, I can't really say. Some fan fictions are exactly like that. Theres always something that happens which changes people life. They hate each other. The develop feelings. They go into denial. They admit it. They fall in love and have hot smex. >_>
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Posted: Fri May 11, 2007 10:31 pm
Kitsune-chi Sheard It's not just BL that follows that formula. Look at anything by Rumiko Takahashi (Ranma 1/2, InnuYasha) for example. Her stuff all follows the same exact formula: - boy meets girl - they fall in love - they deny their love and fight all the time - everyone else loves them, but they would rather fight with each other than go date someone else - conflict - conflict - conflict - conflict - conflict - teary love confession post misunderstanding - the end Oh yea and her characters in her current series look a lot like her all her characters in her prior series. It's like she's drawing the same boy and girl all the time, just renaming them and giving slight variations like different hair or tacking on animal ears. My point being that BL/Yaoi isn't the only type of manga that is guilty of following set formulas. You have a very good point. I just think that with BL, the tendencies become more apparent because usually it's just all about the BL, without any kind of sub genre appearing in the midst, like fantasy or action or sci fi or something. Usually it's just a romance story (Excluding Loveless, I s'pose) I guess that is what bothers me more. Eheheh. I've never really cared for Rumiko Takahashi myself. I've never cared for her stuff. I know of it because of having dated someone that was hard core Rumiko Takahashi fan.... like read everything she wrote. The thing I've noticed with sub-genres though is that sometimes you see a few BL characters but their BL relationship isn't the main focus. Sometimes it's implied and can be debated back and forth, while in other instances we definately see two male characters in a love relationship of some sort with each other. The other difference is that because the BL relationship isn't the main focus of the manga, the characters aren't going through relationship issues, denial or angst.
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Posted: Sat May 12, 2007 10:54 am
Sheard It's not just BL that follows that formula. Look at anything by Rumiko Takahashi (Ranma 1/2, InnuYasha) for example. Her stuff all follows the same exact formula: - boy meets girl - they fall in love - they deny their love and fight all the time - everyone else loves them, but they would rather fight with each other than go date someone else - conflict - conflict - conflict - conflict - conflict - teary love confession post misunderstanding - the end Oh yea and her characters in her current series look a lot like her all her characters in her prior series. It's like she's drawing the same boy and girl all the time, just renaming them and giving slight variations like different hair or tacking on animal ears. My point being that BL/Yaoi isn't the only type of manga that is guilty of following set formulas. For 40+ volumes! At least most yaoi manga ends in one volume or less. Ugh. Also in response to the sub-genre thing... BL is basically romance with gay characters instead of straight ones. So the main focus is going to be the romance. You notice the same thing when you read het romance, no matter what the setting, the focus is going to be the budding relationship between the two characters. Always. There might be other things (fantasy or sci fi or action related) going on but it is first and foremost a romance.
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Posted: Sat May 12, 2007 12:18 pm
You guys complained too much, why don’t you go and try to make your own since you got it all work out.
No, I‘m not trying to be mean. But stop and think about it, that’s what most people expect to see, like every single movie that been made. Some movie make more money then others because of how good the story is. I read good ones over the years, some that followed the formula is just as good. It’s not really how the formula is, it’s how the story develop itself that make a good story. At least I think so.
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