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| Are you going to watch it? |
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| Total Votes : 15 |
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 Posted: Tue May 01, 2007 1:47 pm
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Well, I recently found out about this debate that was going to be taking place on the 5th, so I figured everyone here would be interested to check it out. It will not be aired on television, though. The only way to see it will be through the live stream on the ABC website.
My overall opinions on the actual debate are pretty much a "wait and see" sort of approach. The whole not using the Bible thing sounds like a bad idea to me, though.
Here's the link to the article I posted...
Original Article
Oh, and by the way...I'm pretty sure this belongs in the Christianity in the Media section, but I wanted to kind of leave it up here for a while to give people who are too lazy to actually go into all of the subforums to see if there is a new post ( XD like myself ) a chance to hear about this ( as long as the Mods are o.k. with leaving it on the front page for a while, if not, feel free to move it where it belongs. ) Maybe we can have some kind of discussion on it after the actual airing.
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NEW YORK – A prominent Christian best-selling author is asserting that he can prove the existence of God without using the Bible, and has challenged two atheists to a debate.
Ray Comfort, author of God Doesn't Believe in Atheists, alongside fellow Christian and actor Kirk Cameron (Growing Pains) will butt heads with two ardent nonbelievers using only scientific fact in a debate sponsored by ABC. Comfort says that the evidence will “absolutely” confirm that there is a God, and he will not speak about his faith.
"Most people equate atheism with intellectualism," explained Comfort in a statement, "but it's actually an intellectual embarrassment. I am amazed at how many people think that God's existence is a matter of faith. It's not, and I will prove it at the debate – once and for all. This is not a joke. I will present undeniable scientific proof that God exists.”
The debate is in reaction to the “Blasphemy Challenge” that started late in 2006. The two creators of the movement encouraged all people to tape themselves with a short message that will “damn themselves to hell.” Participants must recite the line "I deny the Holy Spirit,” and then upload their video onto YouTube.
Comfort and Cameron felt that these two would be some of the most difficult people to convince that God does indeed exist, so contacted them about having a discussion.
ABC has said that they will film the debate, which will take place on May 5 in New York City, and will stream it live on their website as well as use footage for their program Nightline. Martin Bashir, co-anchor of Nightline, will moderate the event.
Cameron will use the event to also speak out against evolution, which he thinks is not credible and a major contributor to the growth in atheism.
"Evolution is unscientific. In reality, it is a blind faith that's preached with religious zeal as the gospel truth. I'm embarrassed to admit that I was once a naïve believer in the theory,” said the former television star in a statement. “Atheism has become very popular in universities – where it's taught that we evolved from animals and that there are no moral absolutes. So we shouldn't be surprised when there are school shootings.”
Comfort felt impelled to hold the debate, because he is worried about the state of Christianity around the world, especially in Europe. According to a Zukerman study, in Sweden as many as 85 percent of the population are non-believers; Japan has 65 percent; France with 54 percent; and 44 percent of British citizens do not believe in God.
The Christian writer also noted that there is a genuine attack against Christian beliefs, more than other religions.
"[T]here is something more sinister here than a few people not believing in God,” concluded the author. “Why would so many be so bitter against Christianity in particular? Why aren't they making videos that blaspheme Buddha or Mohammed or Ghandi? We made our own video clip and posted it on www.Hollywoodblasphemy.com to expose why."
Comfort has spoken at several atheist events, one in which he was a platform speaker at the 2001 convention for the American Atheists, Inc.
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Posted: Tue May 01, 2007 4:46 pm
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Posted: Thu May 03, 2007 4:24 pm
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Posted: Mon May 07, 2007 9:30 am
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Well, here's a bit of an update...
The website I originally got the information from had May 5th, when in actuality, the debate will take place on May 9th.
Here is the article I got from the Abc Nightline News web page.
Is God Real?
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Why are Kirk Cameron, a preacher, and two self-proclaimed atheists coming together in a church this weekend? Because Cameron and preacher Ray Comfort claim that they "can prove the existence of God."
They'll take on the atheists in the first "Nightline Face Off," a debate to be moderated by "Nightline" anchor Martin Bashir.
Editor's Picks
As Mike Seaver, the oldest son in the smash hit sitcom "Growing Pains," actor Kirk Cameron could make audiences roll with laughter. But now he wants to bring them to the Lord. And he's deadly serious.
In March 2006, "Nightline" profiled the Way of the Master, a Christian ministry headed by Cameron and itinerant preacher Ray Comfort. Operating as a charitable trust, its intention is to educate and equip the church to preach the message of Christianity to nonbelievers. Cameron says he is motivated by a literal fear of hell.
"I believe the Scriptures teach that there's a literal heaven and a literal hell, just like Jesus said," he explained. "And without forgiveness of sins that, yeah, the place of punishment is called hell."
The Way of the Master has a weekly television show for which Comfort and Cameron literally hit the streets in the name of Jesus, challenging nonbelievers that their sins against God will lead directly to hell.
"On the Day of Judgment," Comfort tells one man on the streets of New York, "God will see you as a lying, thieving, blasphemous, adulterer at heart. You have sinned against God. You need his forgiveness."
On occasions, things go badly wrong and the pair are attacked by members of the public. Comfort recalled one incident, saying, "While I was preaching the Gospel a gentleman came up and he started spitting on me. And he spat quite a few times." Comfort says he simply remained calm and moved on.
Neither Comfort nor Cameron has theological degrees nor any kind of formal training. But Cameron says he's convinced his new career is vitally important.
"I have no authority. I am simply trying to be faithful to the God who saved me, who changed me and who has commissioned me to tell you and those who are watching this interview … about the Gospel of Jesus Christ and that it has the power to change people's hearts."
The Rational Response Squad
"There isn't any good reason to believe in God," so says Brian Sapient, a member of the Rational Response Squad, a group of atheists "Nightline" profiled in January.
What's wrong with God? "What's wrong with the tooth fairy?" asks Brian. "There's nothing wrong with something that most likely doesn't exist."
"Atheists are completely vilified. And it's OK," says Kelly, an atheist who works alongside Brian and also asks that her last name not be used.
Editor's Picks
"It's actually OK to hate atheists," Kelly says. "We are like the last group that people overwhelmingly agree it's OK to hate, because there's an absurd caricature of atheism out there."
While their theological views differ from the Way of the Master, their approaches are similar -- brash and in-your-face. The Rational Response Squad challenges people to take the Blasphemy Challenge in which they make videos of themselves denouncing or blaspheming the Holy Spirit, and then post them on YouTube.
One of the posts is by a young-looking man named Chandler. He says, "I've come to the conclusion that alongside the fact that there is no Santa Claus and there is no Easter bunny, there is also no God. So, without further ado, my name is Chandler and I deny the existence of the Holy Spirit."
Taking risks with your own soul is one thing, but the Rational Response Squad advertises for the Blasphemy Challenge on Web sites for teens, such as Tiger Beat (tigerbeatmag.com).
"They have already been targeted," Brian says. "So hopefully, they are at a point where they are not so indoctrinated and set in their ways that they can overcome this religious superstition that has been put into their brain unfairly."
At the end of the "Nightline" segment, Brian Sapient says, "If they [the Christians] want to come to the table and present their evidence, I will present my evidence. And we will see how much of theirs is based on faith, and how much of mine is based on fact."
The Face-Off
Ray Comfort saw the piece on the Blasphemy Challenge and he immediately e-mailed "Nightline" to say that "We would like to challenge them to a public debate. … Let's hear their best evidence as to why God doesn't exist, and let the audience decide whose evidence is based on faith and whose is based on fact. We cannot only prove that God exists, but we can prove that the atheist doesn't."
The two sides have agreed to debate in the first "Nightline" Face Off. Here's what they have to say about the debate:
Perhaps you think that anyone who says that he can prove the existence of God is a dreamer. Maybe, like most people, you believe that the issue is a matter of "faith." Then we must be dreamers, because we can prove that God exists, scientifically, absolutely, without mentioning faith or even the Bible. Do you find that hard to believe? Then watch the debate. - Ray Comfort and Kirk Cameron
We are dedicated to responding to irrational claims -- such as the ones being put forth by Ray Comfort and Kirk Cameron that they can prove the existence of God scientifically. We are here to prove that not only can they not do that, but that it cannot be done using the scientific method and the knowledge available to us today.
- The Rational Response Squad
You can watch the debate on ABC News Now on May 9 at 2 p.m., and it will also be available on the "Nightline" page at ABCNews.com.
"Nightline" will air a segment that same night at 11:35 p.m ET
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So yeah, the debate will take place on May 9th, and as soon as I can get a hold of the online stream, I'll link it to this page so anyone can watch it or whatever.
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Posted: Mon May 07, 2007 9:37 am
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Romans 1:20--"For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse."
This describes the atheists:
Romans 1 :25--"They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen."
He could use these verses to bash those atheists in the face, but like God said in Romans 1:20, it's suppose to be LOGICAL for a person that God created the universe and man even if they don't own a Bible. If man can create ideas and other stuff here on Earth, what makes them think that the universe popped up by itself? Isn't the universe created as well? Man create fictional stories and worlds; therefore it's logical that this world was created by a divine mind and conscience.
In Romans 1:25, mankind really does worship God's creation AKA Earth and even their own creations instead of God. You see people who admire the environment and care more about it (global warming, "Only you can prevent wildfires", etc) and others who obsess over cars and other material possessions as well as worship man by worshiping celebrities.
Isn't it fascinating how the Bible, even though written far in the past, really reflects the future? eek
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Posted: Thu May 10, 2007 4:55 pm
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High-functioning Businesswoman
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Posted: Thu May 10, 2007 8:16 pm
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Posted: Fri May 11, 2007 4:13 pm
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Posted: Fri May 11, 2007 7:56 pm
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Posted: Fri May 11, 2007 10:44 pm
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High-functioning Businesswoman
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Posted: Sat May 12, 2007 8:53 pm
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Posted: Sun May 13, 2007 11:59 am
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Fushigi na Butterfly I haven't watched it yet, but my dad has and he said that I probably wasn't going to like the one girl atheist they had on there because of her attitude. Not that that means anything. He also said that it was pretty good, so I don't know if he thought it ended well for the two Christians or what.
But also, if YouTube decides to be a buttface, there's streaming video of it on Way of the Master (there's a link to it in the resources sticky). 3nodding
Seriously, watch it. It was absolutely pathetic. I disagree with your dad. It wasn't a good debate. Everything the Christians said simply showed their own ignorance, especially on evolution. That part made me groan when he pulled out the pictures of the duck with the crocodile mouth or whatever...Please, if that is how you see evolution notify me immediately and I will hold a seminar on the subject within this guild.
When you say that you will not use the Bible in your debate, and 2 out of 3 of your arguments are completely based on the Bible, then you've already lost.
As one person pointed out about their arguments:
1. I has a picture!
2. ?????????
3. Therefore, worship God or burn in Hell.
Is Way Of The Master really a serious site?!? I always thought it was satire! eek Wow, I just realised that the two Christians in the debate are the two guys from that site! rofl How on earth did they expect to win?
I hereby retract my claim that you guys had the cream of the crop. I actually feel sorry that you got those two guys. That's just unfair. At least get some competent apologists on the debate... |
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Posted: Sun May 13, 2007 12:12 pm
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Posted: Sun May 13, 2007 6:18 pm
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Lethkhar Fushigi na Butterfly I haven't watched it yet, but my dad has and he said that I probably wasn't going to like the one girl atheist they had on there because of her attitude. Not that that means anything. He also said that it was pretty good, so I don't know if he thought it ended well for the two Christians or what.
But also, if YouTube decides to be a buttface, there's streaming video of it on Way of the Master (there's a link to it in the resources sticky). 3nodding Seriously, watch it. It was absolutely pathetic. I disagree with your dad. It wasn't a good debate. Everything the Christians said simply showed their own ignorance, especially on evolution. That part made me groan when he pulled out the pictures of the duck with the crocadile mouth or whatever...Please, if that is how you see evolution notify me immediately and I will hold a seminar on the subject within this guild. When you say that you will not use the Bible in your debate, and 2 out of 3 of your arguments are completely based on the Bible, then you've already lost. As one person pointed out about their arguments: 1. I has a picture! 2. ????????? 3. Therefore, worship God or burn in Hell. Is Way Of The Master really a serious site?!? I always thought it was satire! eek Wow, I just realised that the two Christians in the debate are the two guys from that site! rofl How on earth did they expect to win? I hereby retract my claim that you guys had the cream of the crop. I actually feel sorry that you got those two guys. That's just unfair.
3nodding I'll see if I can get to it next weekend. |
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High-functioning Businesswoman
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Posted: Sun May 13, 2007 8:25 pm
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Lethkhar *Hasn't watched it yet* I'll bet the atheists get pwned because the Christians just keep shouting ad hominems at the top of their lungs and don't give them a chance to speak... I hope he doesn't use Descartes's "proof". If the atheists have any sense, they'll tear that one to shreds... Oh, and who exactly are the atheists that are debating? I hope one's Richard Dawkins. He'll intellectually slaughter them. EDIT: No, no Richard Dawkins. Just two random atheists that I've never heard of. That's not very fair, is it? You guys get the cream of your crop and we get two random people off the street as far as I can tell... cry
The two atheist were the creators ( I think, but I'm not 100% on that ) of the Rational Response Squad that started The Blasphemy Challenge thing online at Youtube and whatnot. I'm pretty sure there was a topic about it here not too long ago.
But yeah, I figured I'd answer that question before I logged off and got ready for school tomorrow. xd count yourself honored that I'd bother to do such a wonderful, magnificent thing for you. ( ^^; Just kidding. I'm not that conceited. Note how I said "not that conceited" gonk My dad had the nerve today to say that I'd gain some weight and needed to stop eating cookies...yeah, seriously...but I still think I'm gorgeous! He's just jealous of my dashing good looks. rofl Okay...I'm done. No more joking. I don't even know where this extra burst of stupidity is coming from...)
In closing...I'm still too lazy to actually reply to my own thread. Hopefully I'll get around to it some time soon.
^_^ Until then, buenos noches, everybody. |
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