"Traditionalists & Traditional Witchcraft"

[Naomi Tinuveil]

So far the idea has struct me thus far to investigate this further. As of right now, I have really no basis for comparison. I've been trying to find out more of what pertains to "TradCraft" and so far not much has come up. I've found a few websites that look promising. But I still need time to read through them all and (using a little common sense) see what I can come up with.

Does anyone else have a straight foreward answer as to what "Exactly", "Traditional Witchcraft" encompasses. So far the only definition I have is that it is a term now used for "Aboriginal Spirituality of Europe, with traditions varying by family." I've found a guild on here for it, but there isn't much, if any information on it really.

www.traditionalwitchcraft.net

Is a forum that I've found with the most information thus far. Just wondering if anyone else had any insights. Considering I really don't claim to have a religion. I believe in a Duality Theory, and the prospect of Nature as Divinity. But I have no "Set" religious structure to follow. Just looking for some insights to finding or creating a "Family" tradition of my own seeing as how Catholicism has become rather mundane and unfullfilling for me since probably around the age of 8.

Any insight at all is helpful.
~Nam  

[Starlock]

"Traditional Witchcraft" is a term I've seen used to describe a wide range of things, and frankly I haven't had the time nor the patience to sort out the labeling mess on that one. I've seen it used to refer to very specific sets (or a single) tradition but I've also seen it used in a more generalized way.

Going off the more generalized definition, "traditional" implies that it is either a heritage-based or lineage-based system that works using a pre-established system that is stuck to. You could perhaps say the opposite of a traditional system would be one that is more ecclectic or isn't as strict on keeping to a predetermined way of doing rituals and such. By Witchcraft, sometimes I've seen that as refering to Gardnerian Wicca or other more structualized systems. Other times I've seen it refering to family traditions, other times to just the practice of magic.

I realize that probably wasn't too helpful, but with the number of ways I've seen this term used... like I said, I don't have it sorted out either. Simplistic labels only get you so far in knowing something anyway and I've gotten a bit tired of trying to pigeonhole anything anymore as its almost like trying to capture air with a butterfly net. xd  

[Deoridhe]

I believe witch is solidly European in origin, the connotations of it influenced heavily by Judaism and Christianity. This makes it a rather difficult thing to describe in terms of "traditional".

Lucky you. wink

One thing I'd suggest is that you educate yourself on the various witch trials in Europe and the USA. This will give you a grounding in what witchcraft most likely is not. The claims made about so-called witches are common propeganda for any demonized group, and as such don't serve well as a basis for a traditional identity.

You might want to look into the various folk traditions as well, especially those aimed at healing, harmin, and crop growth. These are fairly basic and traditional goals for most people, so spells centered around them make sense. One of the Galdr (sort of a chant/binding spell from my tradition) I know is meant to cause extreme flatulence. rofl

Figuring out what cultural basis and worldview you want to work from will help, too, but that can often be a time consuming prospect. It's entirely likely a tradition or culture will leap off the shelf at your throat while you're doing research, though.  

[Greeneyed_falcon]

Phoenixfire Lune Soleil

Traditional Witchcraft is the name given to a group of Witchcraft traditions (both religious and non) that are generally based around British and Northern Europian folklore and Paganism. It is not, as the name would imply, a single religion or tradition.

As such, you should also realise that the information, opinions and the like presented in this guild will not apply to all Traditionals, merely myself and the ones I have come to know. It is a vast subject, and I could not possibly hope to cover it all.

When people think of Witchcraft, they tend to think of Wicca and/or more mainstream practices of witch magic. Traditional Witchcraft is not widely known, and for this reason I made this guild: so I could teach the curious few about aspects of Trad Craft that I have learnt, and also to hopefully meet others on similar paths. ^^ I'm still learning a lot about it myself, and would welcome any information and input people have on the subject.

Most organised Trad religions I've come across so far have foundations in the early 1900s and onwards. Rarely have I seen a Trad Crafter (if at all) claim that theirs is an "old religion" or an unbroken religion passed down through their family. The closest I've come across are those who claim their family have certain bits of folklore and traditions in it, though this is far from a full religion, and they generally state that their path is a modern construction with their own personal family lore added to it. And of course there are those who solely follow the folklore and traditions passed down in their family, with no modern parts added.

Some of the beliefs and concepts in Trad Craft come from Anglo-Saxon and Germanic lore. The idea of Fate, or Wyrd, for example is of Saxon origin.

So while a lot of Trad Craft is "pre-Wiccan", it isn't by that much. However, there will always those traditions that really are old...

One thing that tends to confuse people about the diverse nature of Trad Craft is that a lot of the traditions within it do not have their own specific name or title. Most of the Traditionals I have come into contact with only refer to their practices as "Traditional Witchcraft" or "Traditional Paganism". Again this may seem like it's one big tradition but it's about as diverse as Paganism itself.

~~~*~~~

Some Snippets About Trad Craft

HowStuffWorks.com

Traditional witchcraft: Traditional witchcraft often follows science, history and the arts as its foundation. While sharing the same respect for nature as the Wiccan witch (see below), traditional witches do not worship nature nor the god or goddess of Wicca. They contact spirits that are part of an unseen spirit world during rituals. Magick is more practical than ceremonial and focuses greatly on herbs and potions. This sect of witchcraft also has no law of harming none, but does believe in responsibility and honor. Hexes and curses, therefore, can be used in self-defense or for other types of protection.

Traditional Witchcraft Forums

What is Traditional Witchcraft?

Traditional Witchcraft is a term that was introduced to refer to the aboriginal spiritual traditions of Europe. There really is no collective historical term that could be used to refer to these traditions, so the use of the term Traditional Witchcraft fit quite nicely. Those who follow these traditional ways are often referred to as Traditionalists.

Unfortunately, in an effort for Traditionalists to define their cultural beliefs and traditions which varied dramatically from those proposed within the Neo-Pagan movement, somehow the term Traditional Witchcraft was also adopted by those who became disenchanted with Neo-Paganism and its Wiccan counterpart. Still others adopted the term Traditional Witchcraft as a rebellious movement against the fluffy bunny goodness and light that seemed to be manifesting itself within Paganism. Of course, this deviated so incredibly from the definition of Traditional Witchcraft and from those who actually are Traditionalists.

These forums will focus on Traditional Witchcraft as it refers to the old traditions of the Ancestors and will embrace family traditions, reconstructionalists, and others who seek to follow the ways of the ancestors and honor the land in accordance with tradition.

Owlblinker of Traditional Witchcraft Forums

- Witchcraft that is reconstructed based on material, myth, inspiration, symbolism and technique which is Pre-Gardnerian, Pre-Murray and Pre-New Age in origin. This includes the *native European* traditions, particulary those that honour the darker 'gods' and the Underworld.

- A reconstruction of the more medieval idea of witchcraft, which includes devil worship and malevolant sorcery (there are some of these types in the Westcountry). Although I think in many instances, this may overlap with Heathenism and Paganism.

- Followers of the Robert Cochrane offshoot traditions (he coined the phrase "Traditional Witchcraft", no matter how wiccan-influenced he is!)

- Followers of Sabbatic Witchcraft, such as Andrew Chumbley and the Cultus Sabbati. This may include Gnostic Sects and Luciferian Witchcraft.

- Other British traditions stemming from the Whitestone family such as Hagstone, Crowstone and Moonstone.

- Traditional and Hereditary witches who exist in rural areas (they certainly do down this kneck of the woods). This applies only to those individuals or families that are 'feared' for their witchery, rather than the Cunning-Folk type consulted for cures and charms (although this may overlap in some instances).

Moonglade of Traditional Witchcraft Forums

My definition of Traditional Witchcraft in a nutshell would be the continuation of the practice of European native religions and cultural beliefs after the advent of Christianity, a name given to those practices by the Christians and which in time evolved into the "devil worshipping" concept. Prior to Christianity, there was no need for such terminology: believers in the local gods and culturally specific practices were just that, believers who needed no specific name for their beliefs. Sort of like we typically don't go around calling ourselves Earthlings. It's true but it's pointless: of course we are Earthlings.

Robin Artisson

Traditional Witchcraft is a post-christian phenomenon which expresses the persistence of folk-tradition and even vestigial pagan mystical rites and features of the older worldviews. It was once found primarily within the rural communities of Europe that existed in larger numbers until the two World Wars and the spread of massive industry. The remains of ancient wisdom traditions can still be found encoded in folk-tales, balladry, and myths, as well as in the "spirits of places", for those who are sensitive enough to experience them.

Traditional Witchcraft- in common with Pre-Christian Paganism- is a path which is focused on relating to the natural world and to the Unseen powers in it, through the vehicle of folklore, local customs, and rural charms and techniques which amount to methods of trance and the awakening of the mind to earlier "streams" of power in the Land itself. The bedrock of folklore and myth and the operation of remnant pagan spirits and human spiritual workers form much of the origin of the legendary "Witches" and "Cunning Folk" of the past.

http://www.robinartisson.com/witchtp.htm

Are we allowed do that? *pointing to above quote*.. I'm not sure, if not, yell at me and I'll take it down

Some websites that might help:
The Crooked Path

Traditional Witchcraft Forums

Scarespite

Traditional Witch

Hedge Wytchery

Traditional witchcraft vs. Wicca

Witchcraft Journal


Blue Moon Manor



 

[ShadowSharrow]

Nice post Greeneyed_falcon,
Proper witchcraft is out there for those who are not scared of thier own shadow and are willing to look beyoung the wishy washy crap they cut down
trees to print.
The only bit I would quibble with is the inclusion of Robin Artisson.  

[Deoridhe]

Greeneyed_falcon

The idea of Fate, or Wyrd, for example is of Saxon origin.

FYI, fate and wyrd are not synonymous. Fate is immutable and cannot be changed - Greco-Roman stories wax loquatious on this. Wyrd is mutable and even if an event cannot be altered, the circumstances and aftermath can be - if one is skilled and mindful.

Fate is the destination of a road. Wyrd is a stream with stones.  

[maenad nuri]

ShadowSharrow

.
The only bit I would quibble with is the inclusion of Robin Artisson.

As would I. I am fast approaching the conclusion that the man is insane, a con, or both. Actually, I think I am just confused as to which he is, but I am sure he is one of them.  

[ShadowSharrow]

Nuri

ShadowSharrow

.
The only bit I would quibble with is the inclusion of Robin Artisson.

As would I. I am fast approaching the conclusion that the man is insane, a con, or both. Actually, I think I am just confused as to which he is, but I am sure he is one of them.

Why not both ?
I have him in the same box as wade mcMorrigan tbh.  

[maenad nuri]

ShadowSharrow

Nuri

ShadowSharrow

.
The only bit I would quibble with is the inclusion of Robin Artisson.

As would I. I am fast approaching the conclusion that the man is insane, a con, or both. Actually, I think I am just confused as to which he is, but I am sure he is one of them.

Why not both ?
I have him in the same box as wade mcMorrigan tbh.

Mr Wade posted in exactly one topic on Gaia, before I made him cry and go away. It was lovely.  

[jaden kendam]

Who the frick is Wade, or did I already ask that at one point? Damn memory...  

[ShadowSharrow]

Nuri

Mr Wade posted in exactly one topic on Gaia, before I made him cry and go away. It was lovely.

Any chance to a link on that ?  

[Greeneyed_falcon]

ShadowSharrow

Nice post Greeneyed_falcon,
Proper witchcraft is out there for those who are not scared of thier own shadow and are willing to look beyoung the wishy washy crap they cut down
trees to print.
The only bit I would quibble with is the inclusion of Robin Artisson.

Thanks.
*makes a note of the Robin Artisson debate*. Unfortunately I'm not half as well read as I would like to be, so I'm in ignorance on a lot of authors. Being young and poor, for some reason books on paganism, witchcraft etc cost a fortune and libraries never seem to have them.  

[Doctrix]

I'm not a practitioner of Traditional Witchcraft, but I have some local TW friends who recommend that I read the Robert Cochrane letters. smile The way I understand it, when Gardner published, a bunch of fam trads came out of the woodwork and said, "duh, we've been doing stuff kinda' like that forever... Or at least we're doing it now." Some of these fam trads are truly in the family only, with histories that I'll never know. But there do seem to be quite a few blended to be "new" TW lines out there, one in my state that I know of, that are based off of Cochrane craft and take Initiates from outside. As for creating your own family tradition, I don't see a reason you can't start your own Pagan traditions within your family without latching onto "Traditional Witchcraft" to imply a history in a way that would confuse a lay-person like me. But I'm still working on being less confused in general. smile  

[ShadowSharrow]

[Kudzu]

I'm not a practitioner of Traditional Witchcraft, but I have some local TW friends who recommend that I read the Robert Cochrane letters. smile The way I understand it, when Gardner published, a bunch of fam trads came out of the woodwork and said, "duh, we've been doing stuff kinda' like that forever... Or at least we're doing it now." Some of these fam trads are truly in the family only, with histories that I'll never know. But there do seem to be quite a few blended to be "new" TW lines out there, one in my state that I know of, that are based off of Cochrane craft and take Initiates from outside. As for creating your own family tradition, I don't see a reason you can't start your own Pagan traditions within your family without latching onto "Traditional Witchcraft" to imply a history in a way that would confuse a lay-person like me. But I'm still working on being less confused in general. smile

Traditional witchcraft is not a 'trad' as a tradition is in the Wiccan contexts.
It is traditional in the context of using traditional witchcraft methods and tools.

Family Trads may be traditional witchcraft but not all traditional witchcrafters are from a formal family trad and many are witches working alone doing thoer own thing and upon occasion sharing with other witches.

Saying tradional witch craft does not suggest a history but a mode of working.

Many who practice traditional witchcraft be it lineaged or not, be it initatory or not see the majority of those who are Wiccan ever those who are strains or BTW to be diluted down and politcally correct versions of witch craft.

From what I can tell not being a Gardenarin a lot of the older HardGard ways of working are close to Traditional Witchcraft.

I have been a witch and working Traditional Witchcraft for the last 16 years of my life having made my first witchesbottle at the age of 16.
It has been the core of my pratice and everything else hangs off that.

I came ( was frickin driven demented ) to Wicca (BTW) over the last 4 years by my patron diety and only recently gave in when I finally found a Hps as stuborn as I am.
While I still have Wiccan mysteries to experience, ponder and understand I know and work the guts of my craft with out instruction.
So I can see both sides of it and still manage to work in a way which is compatible to the land I live on and my heritage.

And yes Damn it I must get around to finishing off my own pathworking thread.  

[Greeneyed_falcon]

This pops up over and over again in this thread - what does BTW stand for?