Ignorant--Just what IS the difference between goth and emo?

[ArynChris]

What can I say?
I'm not goth
nor an emo
--or at least
not that I know of.

So what exactly
is
the big deal,
difference,
and take?  

[-Resurrected Writer-]

Well if this helps you at all,
The basic foundation of goth is listening to bands like:
Bauhaus
Joy Division
Siouxsie and the Banshees
Sex Gang Children
The Cure
Cinema Strange
Christian Death
Switchblade Symphony
The Cruxshadows
Voltaire

and having an interest in/being involved in the goth community.

The basic foundation of emo is listening to bands like:
Rites of Spring
City of Caterpillar
Embrace
Moss Icon
Heroin
Jimmy Eat World (some of their stuff, though most of it is pop rock)
Cap'n Jazz

and beyond that, I don't know if there is such thing as an emo community.

As for personalities, a lot of goths tend to appreciate darker, misunderstood, or deep ideals of life - death, romance, and other various philosophies. They also tend to be pretty creative, and believe-it-or-not, a lot of goths are actually happier than most "normal" people (probably because we feel very accepted within each other)

The emo personality I'm not quite as sure of, as well. My best bet for that is that they are much more at ease with conveying their feelings (the whole range, not just angst) than most people. Also - like goths - emo is a very introverted style of music, which separates it from the extroverted, aggressive world of punk rock which it sprang from.  

[ArynChris]

So then...
All this
for mere tunes? confused
THIS DOES NOT COMPUTE  

[-Resurrected Writer-]

ArynChris

So then...
All this
for mere tunes? confused
THIS DOES NOT COMPUTE

Both of them are founded on music of their own subcultures. So yes. And "All this for mere tunes" is kind of condescending - goths and emos don't all listen to the exact same bands as other goths and emos do; that's why there are so many bands (much more beyond my list). Another musical connection is that many fashions of goth come from the early bands like Siouxsie and the Banshees and Bauhaus. The emo style I'm not so sure of, as it seems to be more styled after pop rock bands like MCR (whom many mistake to be emo) - sad thing is, it's hard to find emos who listen to real emo bands sweatdrop
Beyond that, goths and emos simply have their own personalities - they can be happy, depressed, neutral, etc. - though I also mentioned wide-ranged characteristics before.
The fact is that goths and emos can be quite a bit like what standard society considers normal. Neither of them are as exclusive as some may think.  

[GilAskan]

Depends under which definitions you follows.

First, it should be established that goth and emo ARE NOT personality traits. You cannot "act emo" or "act goth". There is no goth or emo behavior pattern.

Second...

Under the traditional definitions:

Dictionary

Goth (n.): An avid fan of goth-rock

Dictionary

Emo (n.): Abbreviation of "Emotive-Hardcore"; an avid fan of emotive-hardcore music.

If one were to go strictly by these definitions, the only similarity between the two cultures is that they both revolve around music. However, stylistically, the music genres aren't at all alike, so they really have no relation whatsoever.

Third...

Under a broader definition, a goth is a member of the goth culture, while an emo person would be one who is part of the emo sub-culture. Under this definition, again, there are very few similarities to be found.

Goth is a large, thriving culture which has existed for nearly 30 years (some might argue longer). It consists of dozens of fashion styles, it's own unique slang, iconography, a musical genre and scene, multiple (perhaps dozens) of off-shoot sub-genres and sub-cultures, artists, writers, comedy (which would only have comedic effect within the culture), locales, and more.

Emo is a fairly small, arguably dead sub-culture. An off-shoot of American hardcore (which was largely developed in Philadelphia in the early 80's), emo (which was largely developed in Washington DC in the mid to late 80's) was a fairly short movement. It's largest consentration of activity really peaked after only about 4 years, after which it went into steady decline in the nineties. One could argue that the culture no longer exists, and even at it's peak, only really was one music genre and scene, with some limited fashion variations.

Now, there are some loose similarities between the two. For one thing, they both came from punk on some extent. [Note: "->" refers to "lead to", while "-<" refers to "branches to" or "splits to"].

Punk -> Post-punk -> Goth-rock -< Many others
Punk -> Hardcore -< Emotive-Hardcore (emo)

They also both share the experience of having their own mallcore offshoot. Poseurs, imitators, "posers", whatever you'd like to call them. Emo-mallcore and mallgoth, the specific names of the imitating teenage trends.

Most of the confusion of emo and goth comes from the overlapping similarities of Emo-mallcore and mallgoth, not from the core goth and emo cultures themselves.

Hopefully, that cleared up some confusion.  

[-Resurrected Writer-]

Thank you for a second opinion 3nodding

and I have also been wondering as to whether goth can really be called culture rather than subculture - true, there's art; music; and literature, but it's not like kids of goths are automatically gothic, and we don't have our own style of food.
I think there's sort of a gray area there...

and I admit I was a bit misleading with saying personalities... just stating a few fairly common traits.  

[GilAskan]

On the subject of goth being a culture...

This has longer been pondered upon, whether goth is a full culture or merely a subculture. To evaluate this, we must think of "what is a culture?".

First, it should be established that "a culture" is neither commonly nor necessarily "a race" or "a nation". The dictionary defines a culture [in this context] as

Dictionary

Culture (n.) (kŭl'chər):
1. The totality of socially transmitted arts, beliefs, institutions, and all other products of human work and thought. These patterns, traits, and products considered as the expression of a particular period, class, community, or population.

Looking into the definition, I specifically highlighted the phrase "socially transmitted" for a reason. The traits of a "culture" are passed on through social interaction. This certainly applies to goth, and goth certainly has it's own "arts, beliefs, institutions, and [other] products of human work and thought".

There are of course other definitions of what defines a culture. Dr. Michael Palmer, dean of Regent University and philospher, believes a culture to be defined by six traits: ideology (common beliefs), narrative (history), norms (regulars of life, such as fashion or music), rituals (common group experiences), experience (personal growth), and the social element (group interaction). One could make an argument that goth does fit this definition, though, it would be more difficult to do so.

Others define culture by another six traits: language, fashion, food, religion, proximity (living within a certain area), and art. Defining goth under this is simply not possible.

There are far more definitions as well.

So, as usual, what goth is (in this case, whether or not it's a full culture) is a matter of opinion. That opinion being formulated around what one believes defines a culture.  

[DR490N]

to place it simply, goths tend to listen to goth music, while emos tend ot listen to emo or 'emo-core' music.
to further differentiate, emos are usually alot more depressed, often keeping themselves in a depressive state for attention seeking purposes, as well as mutilating themselves(ie cutting), much more often than goths do. goth is more about intelligence, philosophy, and introspection, while emo is more about whining, complaining abotu relationships, and suicide.  

[GilAskan]

DR490N

to place it simply, goths tend to listen to goth music, while emos tend ot listen to emo or 'emo-core' music.
to further differentiate, emos are usually alot more depressed, often keeping themselves in a depressive state for attention seeking purposes, as well as mutilating themselves(ie cutting), much more often than goths do. goth is more about intelligence, philosophy, and introspection, while emo is more about whining, complaining abotu relationships, and suicide.

Ehh...

You're confusing elements of the actual emo culture and emo mallcore.

Goth : Emo :: Mallgoth : Emo-mallcore

Emo-mallcore is the stereotypical attention seeking, whiney, self-mutilating, designer "Art-Scene" clothes, group.

Members of the real emo culture aren't like that. Likewise, members of the real goth culture aren't the "I wear all black all the time, shop only at Hot Topic, worship Marilyn Manson, obsess over vampires" mallgoths.  

[ArynChris]

Then in what sand...
...do we draw the line?
In what place can we say
here
this is goth
this is emo
this is mall-etwas
this is poser
this is silly
stereotype.
Too many definitions
Too many overlapping
trends.

(Ugh. Too much bad poetry from the hands of A.C. xp )  

[-Resurrected Writer-]

ArynChris

Then in what sand...
...do we draw the line?
In what place can we say
here
this is goth
this is emo
this is mall-etwas
this is poser
this is silly
stereotype.
Too many definitions
Too many overlapping
trends.

(Ugh. Too much bad poetry from the hands of A.C. xp )

Why so much,
to speak in stanzas?
Trapped in flow,
nowhere else to go,
is poetry all she speaks?
Or is it a need,
to add so much spice,
forgetting meat has flavor?
(I'm not too good a poet, I admit)

But really, they're only trends if you do it to keep up with times. Goths from the eighties are largely still goths - they haven't turned emo or into any other current trend.
Similarly, most emos from the eighties still highly prefer Rites of Spring to Fallout Boy  

[ArynChris]

Sheltered equals ignorant
and ignorance is not bliss.
I do not know these bands.
But then,
I ROCK.
So mayhaps I be forgiven.

And as to that
the other... cool

While meat is good
with or out flavor,
and has been all my years,
I've found of late
this certain taste
for difference traps me here.

Stranger I
in strange lands founder
and catch upon the shore,
So lest I be
forgotten soon,
I hesitate me to bore.  

[-Resurrected Writer-]

There's really nothing you need forgiveness for; it's not like you're not welcome here - look at the guild home page; it says anyone is allowed here, whether they are goths or just people interested in what goth is smile

And as for the other, I was more asking why you like to speak in stanzas rather than plain speech (which I might have clouded when I tried to write it in a poem myself sweatdrop )  

[ArynChris]

Laughter,
laughter is my name,
for poetry is clear.
Analogy is but the way
we say what we mean
while mean not what we say.
Never fear.  

[Digital Malevolence]

goth has been around longer then emo.........thats the only difference i feel like pointing out.