'Harry Potter' as viewed by Pagans and/or Wiccans

[Sir_Catherine]

First off, an explanation.

I am in a university English Honors Society and we will be presenting a panel at a national converence discussing the viability of Harry Potter as a good literary read for children.

With all the flare up from Christian groups over how their view the books, my thoughts were...

"What about non-Christioan groups like Pagans or Wiccans? How do they see the HP books? What is accurate in the books for them? What is pure fantasy? Are they a good mix? Are they insulting? Are they favored as good reads? What has been the general reaction of the Pagan/Wiccan community to the HP books?"

I would love to hear answers to these questions from all of you! Sources and refrences would be welcome, but so would a general concensus.

Thank you all.  

[Pelta]

It was enjoyable fantasy.

That's pretty much all there is to say about it. I don't even think it was written particularly well (I stopped after the fourth book) but it's a fun book for an amusing read. Like most fiction.

I well prefer Terry Pratchett.  

[jaden kendam]

Sir_Catherine

First off, an explanation.

I am in a university English Honors Society and we will be presenting a panel at a national converence discussing the viability of Harry Potter as a good literary read for children.

With all the flare up from Christian groups over how their view the books, my thoughts were...

"What about non-Christioan groups like Pagans or Wiccans? How do they see the HP books? What is accurate in the books for them? What is pure fantasy? Are they a good mix? Are they insulting? Are they favored as good reads? What has been the general reaction of the Pagan/Wiccan community to the HP books?"

I would love to hear answers to these questions from all of you! Sources and refrences would be welcome, but so would a general concensus.

Thank you all.

Why do you have Pagans or Wiccans and Pagans/Wiccans? Pagans are those who do not follow the Abrahamic faiths, which are Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. Wicca falls under that umbrella term of pagan.

As for my views. I think that they are helping children to read. For a long time, children basically only had like sesame street stuff to read, because not many parents want thier children reading Conan novels. Mine did, and I am grateful for that.

But with the coming of Potter, it ushered in other new exciting works like Lemony Snickets and others, that I have been wanted to read, but have not picked up yet.

Also, a fiction book for Christians has become popular. The lion, the witch, and the wardrobe. With which, if it was not for the popularity of the Harry Potter books, I feel, that it may not have become as highly demanded as it is.

Children today, have more literary works that do not make them feel like babies to pick and choose from. And for that, I congratulate J.K. Rowlings.

That being said, I did not like much about book 4, although she cleaned it up a little in book 5 and left me with some speculations in book 6, which I did not have at the end of book 4.

But my fave characters are Professor Lupin. Sirius. And though some may hate me for saying it, Dobby. I think the movie version of book 4 needed him and to leave him out was a travesty.  

[Sir_Catherine]

Again, first let me explain.

I used Wiccan/Pagan with the '/' symbol meaning 'and/or'. I realize that Wicca is a subset of Paganism, but it is used both to refer to a specific group and to represent a wider group that technicaly is not Wiccan. Also, there is argument over just who is Wiccan and what it means to be Wiccan. I don't profess to have the answers or to particularly desire with this thread to find them. Hence my fluid use of the two terms. I want imput from those of this guild no matter what label they have given themselves or others.

How about this: I am looking to ask 'non-Christian, non-athiest, non-Islamic' peoples who have some religious or philosophical connection to magic about their views on the HP books?
Does this satisfy you? If it does, it wont someone else, so I'm not going to keep defending myself or changing my wording after this.  

[Sir_Catherine]

Beyond your favorite characters and views of the plot lines, may I hear what you have to say on HP in refrence to it being 'representative' of your religion/faith/philosophy and the idea that the books are being attacked because of their supposed links to this community?

For the reccord: I think HP is okay literatrue, perfectly harmless for children and adults and pure fantasy.  

[jaden kendam]

Sir_Catherine

Beyond your favorite characters and views of the plot lines, may I hear what you have to say on HP in refrence to it being 'representative' of your religion/faith/philosophy and the idea that the books are being attacked because of their supposed links to this community?

For the reccord: I think HP is okay literatrue, perfectly harmless for children and adults and pure fantasy.

It is fiction, which like Ravenwolf's books, are of no reflection upon the supposed religions they may or may not represent.

Also, just based upon the holidays that are mentioned in the book, I would think that Harry Potter and many of the others are Christian Wiccans.  

[Morphenius]

Sir_Catherine

With all the flare up from Christian groups over how their view the books...

It has been my impression that the reaction comes specifically from fundamentalist Christain groups. I emphasize this because I dated a Roman Catholic for four years, yet she enjoyed the Harry Potter series enough to recommend it to me.

The impression I get is that the reaction is based on the reference to magic. Fundamentalists of every religion seem to have problems with keywords. In Christianity, words like "magic," "sacrifice" and "love" are loaded with extra meaning that, despite their multiple interpretations, have no room for flexibility in fundamentalist Christianity.

Radical Wiccans (usually deemed among the "fluffy" here) have problems with a related but slightly different set of keywords. "Magic," "witch," "nature," "god," "intolerance" and "Christianity" will frequently set radical Wiccans off the same way that the above terms trigger "fundies" of Christianity.

If you set the extremist arguments aside, I'm not aware of any problems with the Harry Potter series. In fact, according to one John Granger, it provides a superb introduction to literary alchemy. Granger's interpretation, I should note, does have the distinct advantage that he predicted the results of both the fifth and sixth books, and he has layed out a specific prediction for necessary elements of book seven based on alchemical processes.

Furthermore, there seems to be a nice collection of examples (see this and this), even from a simple Google search, suggesting that the Harry Potter series raises many valuable arenas of discussion and reflection. That, to me, is one of the deifning characteristics of worthwhile literature.

So if we set religion aside, it appears to me (a non-English major) that Rowling's books can teach children things of deep value about literature in an entertaining fashion.

As far as I'm concerned, religion should have nothing to do with whether the series is considered good literature for children. Even fundamentalist Christians could use it as an excellent example of deceptive temptation if they like. Even assuming their anti-human paradigm, guiding children through examples of temptation and pointing out why it's "bad" is a far better option than trying to keep the children from ever encountering temptation and getting swept away the first time they do.

Mind, I still think that approach misses the whole point of the series. Harry Potter is a morality play. The magic is irrelevant. The fact that religion and explicit reference to God is totally missing is, in my mind, extremely important. There are many ways to interpret this story, but one of the most direct I can see is that Harry is a Christ figure. He is taking on the sins of the entire magical world, suffering deeply for it, and in the end he is to be the savior of everyone - presumably through death and resurrection.

The idea of the death and resurrection of some savior resulting in the removal of evil is a story well over two millenia old. Similar tales can be found in Hindu. (Sorry, I don't know the exact reference anymore. stressed I think it's Krishna who went through the virgin birth and visitation by wise men, but I'm not sure if he also went through the death-and-resurrection bit.) The point is that stories based on this archetypal story tend to raise moral issues that are very much worth talking about. It can also point out that many people do not do what is right even if they know what's right. Illustrating this, and encouraging children to try to discover why this is so, is quite possibly the single most important act of education we can possibly perform for those who will build our future.

I apologize for not directly answering your question. I have a talent for answering things sideways. pirate I hope that's helpful all the same!  

[spaceprincess18]

I found this article to be a good possible reson behind the lack of offense:

http://www.religioustolerance.org/wic_pott1.htm

Not to say that the reltol website is 100% accurate, but I thought the points in the first section were good. Most pagans realise these points, and aren't really to upset about the series, as far as I have seen. The problem, I think, lies in the misinformed Christian fundamentalist groups.  

[Deoridhe]

The "magic" in Harry Potter is funny sounding English/Latin. The holidays are secular Christian. I'm really not seeing where the "pagan" is coming from.  

[spaceprincess18]

Deoridhe

The "magic" in Harry Potter is funny sounding English/Latin. The holidays are secular Christian. I'm really not seeing where the "pagan" is coming from.

It's not coming from anywhere in the books, really. It's coming from misinformed people.  

[jaden kendam]

Deoridhe

The "magic" in Harry Potter is funny sounding English/Latin. The holidays are secular Christian. I'm really not seeing where the "pagan" is coming from.

Thats what I said. That it seems to be more of a Christian Witchcraft framework than a Pagan (of course, with all the various religions that that would imply, it would be hard to peg it down) one.  

[Starlock]

The only general reaction of the Neopagan community that I have seen has been in response to the whacos who want to ban the book from school libraries because it "promotes Satanism/Witchcraft." But then, I've seen the same general reaction from most even-headed individuals. The only other trend I've seen (which again, is the same general reaction of most even-headed individuals) is that it's a fun work of fiction.

Personally, well, I have a bit of a different perspective on it. When the sixth book was released, I attended a release party at a local Barnes and Noble. There were people doing magic tricks and the whole thing could have almost been a scene from a Neopagan gathering with all the emphasis on magic, wands, witch hats, and spells. It put things in perspective for me and helped me understand why the Fundamentalist Christians get concerned. If we did prostelyze as a set of religions, Neopagan and other magical paths could easily spark some interest in kids if we were to hand out literature at an event like this ("So kids... want to learn *real* magic?? and then they're guided to the New Age section of the book store...).

Thing is though, that most kids never make that connection or if they do, they don't act upon it. Harry Potter magic is pretty far removed from real magic; I've read books whose magical system were much more in step with the modern reality.  

[TatteredAngel]

deadmanjake

Deoridhe

The "magic" in Harry Potter is funny sounding English/Latin. The holidays are secular Christian. I'm really not seeing where the "pagan" is coming from.

Thats what I said. That it seems to be more of a Christian Witchcraft framework than a Pagan (of course, with all the various religions that that would imply, it would be hard to peg it down) one.

And light on the Christianity, at that. You do have a pretty solid good and evil dichotomy, but honestly it all seems more a literary romp through Joseph Campbell's hero journey in general than it does most other things. I have a hard time seeing it in any terribly religious context.

I wonder how much of the adverse reaction is gut instinct for some people on the use of the word "witchcraft" in particular. Whether magic with some other words attached would have been more palatable. Witchcraft seems to be one of those hot-button words.  

[TheDisreputableDog]

Morphenius

If you set the extremist arguments aside, I'm not aware of any problems with the Harry Potter series. In fact, according to one John Granger, it provides a superb introduction to literary alchemy. Granger's interpretation, I should note, does have the distinct advantage that he predicted the results of both the fifth and sixth books, and he has layed out a specific prediction for necessary elements of book seven based on alchemical processes.

Hot damn. That's pretty cool stuff.  

[jaden kendam]

TatteredAngel

deadmanjake

Deoridhe

The "magic" in Harry Potter is funny sounding English/Latin. The holidays are secular Christian. I'm really not seeing where the "pagan" is coming from.

Thats what I said. That it seems to be more of a Christian Witchcraft framework than a Pagan (of course, with all the various religions that that would imply, it would be hard to peg it down) one.

And light on the Christianity, at that. You do have a pretty solid good and evil dichotomy, but honestly it all seems more a literary romp through Joseph Campbell's hero journey in general than it does most other things. I have a hard time seeing it in any terribly religious context.

I wonder how much of the adverse reaction is gut instinct for some people on the use of the word "witchcraft" in particular. Whether magic with some other words attached would have been more palatable. Witchcraft seems to be one of those hot-button words.

Yeah, I think it all boils down to the fact that the good guy is a wizard. Had he been a lion who kills the evil witch, then there would not have been any problem with it at all.