Drugs and the Divine

[Pelta]

Drugs can be used to alter one's state of consciousness. Of interest to the pagan community is how this change in consciousness alters one's experience of divinity and magic. I don't know if this thread has been done before, but I find it an interesting topic.

There are many traditions that condone hallucinagens as an effective aid to pathworking. Their effects are such that it changes the experience that would have been had without the drugs, for better or for worse.

What I want to know, is what about those more everyday drugs? Alchohol, Nicotine, Prescription medications and Cannabis. What effects do they have on mystic experiences?

Are there any drugs under whose influence you will not attempt certain things?

One of the biggest arguments I find associated with psychoactive drug use is how do you differentiate between the drug and the divine?

What kind of relationship would these have in your workings?  

[TeaDidikai]

Alchohol is commonly used in my practice, and mushrooms are sacred- although I have never actually used them myself.

As part of an ecstatic tradition, I have no qualms with the application of chemicals to workings, but I tend to go with the ones that can be found in nature.

I also favor over external chemicals, the naturally produced ones, and find that dance trance rituals are very moving.

As for "how do you tell the difference", for me it is a function of gnosis. Things either "work" or they don't.  

[Pelta]

TeaDidikai

As for "how do you tell the difference", for me it is a function of gnosis. Things either "work" or they don't.

The thing I find most problematic, having tried mushrooms when they were legal here, is that it is quite difficult to distinguish between your internal and external stimuli. Thus seeing frogs all over the floor was either my eyes being ******** up or one of my totems talking to me.

Either way I wouldn't have been able to tell at the time because of the overpowering sense of ecstasy that accompanies it. It all seems so real, especially if you're used to spiritual visions, that it's hard to tell the difference. With afterthought you can look back and sort things out, but in the moment your judgment is impaired. So doing something serious on mushrooms in response to what you've seen could be very dangerous.

The same, to a lesser extent, goes for alchohol. Being able to sense things spiritually but losing the inhibition to test before acting on it can lead to all sorts of complications. Especially since I tend to get a bit 'sloppy' when drunk. A bit like driving actually...  

[TeaDidikai]

missmagpie

TeaDidikai

As for "how do you tell the difference", for me it is a function of gnosis. Things either "work" or they don't.

The thing I find most problematic, having tried mushrooms when they were legal here, is that it is quite difficult to distinguish between your internal and external stimuli. Thus seeing frogs all over the floor was either my eyes being ******** up or one of my totems talking to me.

Did you awaken your mushrooms first?

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Either way I wouldn't have been able to tell at the time because of the overpowering sense of ecstasy that accompanies it. It all seems so real, especially if you're used to spiritual visions, that it's hard to tell the difference. With afterthought you can look back and sort things out, but in the moment your judgment is impaired. So doing something serious on mushrooms in response to what you've seen could be very dangerous.

There's a bit of missing context here. When I go into an altered state of awareness- it is to a specific goal. Not just for the experience.  

[Pelta]

TeaDidikai

Did you awaken your mushrooms first?

Ah I see what you mean. No I didn't. It was more recreational at the time, which is why I never acted on what I saw. Charging them first would make a lot more sense for a spiritual journey.

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There's a bit of missing context here. When I go into an altered state of awareness- it is to a specific goal. Not just for the experience.

Aha. 3nodding I understand. You're one of those reassuringly sensible people who know what they're doing.

I encountered someone who attempted to do a spiritual journey at a party where everyone else was just having a laugh. Not good. Her candles got knocked over and she ended up in quite a bad way. I thought it was bloody stupid to try that sort of stuff at a party in the first place.

I find control to be essential in almost any magical working. What happens on some drugs is that you lose that control or it becomes impaired. The problem is knowing when to keep going and when to reign yourself in.

Incidentally the lack of control happens with almost any non-pharmaceutical drug I know of. Alchohol's nasty for it. I think certain pharmaceuticals work in the other direction, where they create blockages and inhibitions that restrict you.  

[TeaDidikai]

missmagpie

Charging them first would make a lot more sense for a spiritual journey.

Now you're on the same page, except Charging =/= Awakening. But hey. Close enough for rock and roll.

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Aha. 3nodding I understand. You're one of those reassuringly sensible people who know what they're doing.

I like to think so.

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I find control to be essential in almost any magical working. What happens on some drugs is that you lose that control or it becomes impaired.

I don't seem to have that problem. But then, I measure doses carefully and take certain steps to make such a non-issue.  

[WitchyBoy]

i dont use any thing to this affect in rituals and such. im no straight edger in fact i like my booze but i dont mix the two.  

[TeaDidikai]

WitchyBoy

i dont use any thing to this affect in rituals and such. im no straight edger in fact i like my booze but i dont mix the two.

Why not?  

[Deoridhe]

Alcohol is an integral part of Asatru rituals. Sometimes I think the idea is to reach the point with your mind and spirit that eloquence, wit, and self control go all the way down, even under the influence of alcohol. Given I have difficulty managing any of the above WITHOUT alcohol.... Heee.  

[TeaDidikai]

Deoridhe

Alcohol is an integral part of Asatru rituals. Sometimes I think the idea is to reach the point with your mind and spirit that eloquence, wit, and self control go all the way down, even under the influence of alcohol. Given I have difficulty managing any of the above WITHOUT alcohol.... Heee.

Sorry Deo- I reread that three times and am still not understanding what you are saying.

Could you rephrase for me?  

[Henry Dorsett Case]

TeaDidikai

Deoridhe

Alcohol is an integral part of Asatru rituals. Sometimes I think the idea is to reach the point with your mind and spirit that eloquence, wit, and self control go all the way down, even under the influence of alcohol. Given I have difficulty managing any of the above WITHOUT alcohol.... Heee.

Sorry Deo- I reread that three times and am still not understanding what you are saying.

Could you rephrase for me?

I'm wondering if the following redux is accurate:

Henry's Redux Service

Sometimes I think that the idea is to establish a maintainable control over your mind and spirit so that, even when drunk, you retain eloquence, wit, and self-control

Is that about right?  

[Kuroiban]

I tend to think it's a bad idea in generel, at least from my own persepctive. At the very least, it's not right for me at this point in my life; alcholism runs in my family, and I don't consider myself really capable enough in the mystic realm to blend the two at this point.

My opinion could change sometime in the future.  

[Darin Rosewood]

Certain incenses, desert sage, and tea. That's about it for me. They boost my concentration or put me in a kind of trance state. It=helpful sometimes. ^_^  

[Deoridhe]

TeaDidikai

Deoridhe

Alcohol is an integral part of Asatru rituals. Sometimes I think the idea is to reach the point with your mind and spirit that eloquence, wit, and self control go all the way down, even under the influence of alcohol. Given I have difficulty managing any of the above WITHOUT alcohol.... Heee.

Sorry Deo- I reread that three times and am still not understanding what you are saying.

Could you rephrase for me?

Henry had it about right. The idea is that you are so eloquent, witty, and intelligent that getting drunk makes you more so instead of less so.  

[blindfaith^_^]

I don't generally combine the two. While I do drink, I personally find my ability to draw in energy flawed while under the influnce significantly blocked. I'm not sure if this is a mental problem, where I see alcohal as inhibitor so that's what it does, or if this is a legitimate block on my ability to connect with energy. Either way, doing any ritual, spell, or reiki work while drunk is somewhat out the window for me at the moment.