Cheating or Playing to the best of your Ability

[TeaDidikai]

The use of Magic in contests.

I gamble now and then. I also play board games with friends.

And- I play to the best of my ability.

This came to mind when a "sensitive" friend and I were heads up in a match. She looked dead at me and said "Stop cheating!". I had been asking the deck to push the card I wanted to the top.

I smiled and informed her that I was merely playing to the best of my ability.

Another example is a friend of mine who will likely read this. When he is in physical combat, he wishes to win by his own merits. I pointed out that his charming personality won him friends who would like to help him win the day through magical means. His inspiration of loyalty to those who can help him is one of his merits. ~winks~ He didn't quite see it that way. heart

To my eyes, as someone who works with a completely integrated path, magic is merely the other side of doing what one normally would. Were it a physical competition, one would train the body and do magic. A game, one would play the correct cards etc, and use magic.

I seem to be in the minority in my social circle and would love for others input on the situation.  

[Triste-chan]

So what about sleight of hand?

I mean, that's a skill, but if I used it in a card match to switch a seven with an ace, I think most people would consider it cheating.  

[PurpleDragonsGems]

Well, cheating would be doing somthing against the rules. I've never heard of magic being against any rules. Asking the deck for a particular card and switching it behind someones back are a bit different.  

[Kal Eldritch]

That's completely obserd. That'd be the same as if it were cheating to pray to god that you won the competition. It's not cheating because:

1.) No body can prove the use of magic made you win.
2.) There is no physical trickery or manipulation happening.

Unless you can physicaly measure teh magyckal forces and that the use of that goes directly against the rules of the game, I can't see how that is cheating.

On a less...pseudo-ranty note, a competition in which the use of magic was necissary is pretty appealing. The one with the greatest mastery of magic wins. Then again, we have to prove that it exists first.  

[TeaDidikai]

Triste-chan

So what about sleight of hand?

I mean, that's a skill, but if I used it in a card match to switch a seven with an ace, I think most people would consider it cheating.

Now- to me that would depend on the nature of the contest.
As Dragon Witch Woman pointed out- such is actually against the rules.
mrgreen  

[Aesi]

Playing straight and winning requires a lot of skill. Finding clever ways of cheating requires intelligence and some measure of skill to pull it off undiscovered. Since I'm no paragon of either skill or intelligence, I play straight and lose. I have the worst mind for strategic playing. So I don't bother to cheat (when I'm playing with others, when I'm playing a game by myself, I cheat relentlessly) and I don't much care if others are cheating. I just go my way and have fun.  

[Starlock]

Cheating could also be defined as anything which gives a player an unfair advantage (usually by bending rules, but not always). Question is... what is considered an unfair advantage? The thing with any kind of rules is that they can't take into account every possible incident or sittuation, so people can bend them to get away with unfair conduct. Use of magic in a competition could definately be considered an 'unfair advantage' of sorts. But then, as pointed out by Sovereign of Darkness, there would be no way to proove this kind of cheating, so really it's up to your own personal code of honor as to whether or not you use it or not.  

[TeaDidikai]

Starlock

Cheating could also be defined as anything which gives a player an unfair advantage (usually by bending rules, but not always). Question is... what is considered an unfair advantage? The thing with any kind of rules is that they can't take into account every possible incident or sittuation, so people can bend them to get away with unfair conduct. Use of magic in a competition could definately be considered an 'unfair advantage' of sorts. But then, as pointed out by Sovereign of Darkness, there would be no way to proove this kind of cheating, so really it's up to your own personal code of honor as to whether or not you use it or not.

But by that reasoning, luck of the genetic draw would be considered cheating.  

[blindfaith^_^]

If I caught one of my friends using magic in a game I'd probably laugh and announce two could play that way....assuming I wasn't already playing that way. There's nothing wrong with using a little or a lot of magic in everyday life. If magic can't help you acheive small goals then why would you bother to use it on larger ones.

Besides, I find it particularly amusing if you're playing a card guessing game like ******** the dealer and you keep getting the card right with in the two tries. Granted a lot of it is probablilty and knowing how to guess smart, but I'd like to think my unusal number of correct guesses has something to do with a slight magical edge. Meh maybe I just rock a proablility, equally awesome in my opinion.  

[Pelta]

I used to play a rather nerdy card game (called 'Magic,' coincidentally) with two of my pagan friends. One was quite skilled at surfing our ambient thoughts to find out what cards we had. The other was good at keeping him out and I was good at knowing what card I was going to get next. In the end it balanced out because none of us won a disproportionate amount more than the others. It worked and was still loads of fun.

Part of it isn't much more than being able to read peoples' facial expressions and general vibe, which most people can teach themselves to do. A lot of it is the ability to read someone's 'poker face,' which isn't against any rules.  

[CuAnnan]

The Lady of dice despises me. I mean utterly. I point blank refuse to play monopoly with a friend of mine because the Lady favours her. Monopoly, at the end of the day, boils down to who the Lady likes if the two players are of equal skill.

We decided, one day, to try casting aside all gifts and curses before we played because I was no competition to her. Poker, however, I own her at.  

[Starlock]

TeaDidikai

Starlock

Cheating could also be defined as anything which gives a player an unfair advantage (usually by bending rules, but not always). Question is... what is considered an unfair advantage? The thing with any kind of rules is that they can't take into account every possible incident or sittuation, so people can bend them to get away with unfair conduct. Use of magic in a competition could definately be considered an 'unfair advantage' of sorts. But then, as pointed out by Sovereign of Darkness, there would be no way to proove this kind of cheating, so really it's up to your own personal code of honor as to whether or not you use it or not.

But by that reasoning, luck of the genetic draw would be considered cheating.

Small correction: *COULD* be considered cheating. It is very doubtful that would be considered such in the minds of the overwhelming majority. It is doubtful if anybody would consider inborn/innate abilities to be 'an unfair advantage' given that one has no control over that sort of thing. It would be rediculousl to penalize anybody for something they have zero control over. Magic dosen't fall under the 'can't be controlled' category, though.  

[CuAnnan]

If we accept the Wikipedia definition of cheating, then using magic classifies.  

[Kesseire]

It depends on the nature of the game. At issue isn't so much whether something is against the rules, but whether it is within the focus of the competition.

Because every thread is more fun with a reference to stupid John Candy movies.... In bobsledding, the focus of the competition isn't just a matter of who can get their sled and crew to the bottom of the run first; it's a matter of who can do it within set parameters, and the competition focuses on who can launch, steer, and balance their sled properly. Putting weights in the sled to make the sled go faster unbalances (har-har) the competition and makes it meaningless; why not add jet packs, if sled modification is allowed? Add weights, and the contest begins to be about something entirely different.

As another example, when wrestling you're competing at physical strength, wrestling technique, and tactical acumen. Any deliberate attempt to skew the contest in one direction or another outside those bounds would be cheating, because it's competing on a different level than the one agreed upon. Deliberately using magic to slow down or weaken an opponent would be cheating as surely as putting weights in your bobsled or slitting your opponent's knee tendons.

A contest has a particular paradigm in which it's meant to take place; operating outside that paradigm invalidates the contest. A person who does that no longer "wins" the contest, because they weren't playing within its confines to begin with.  

[Fiddlers Green]

I would be vastly offended and scandalized should anyone interfere on my behalf during a Duel. When I enter into personal combat, it is my skill with the blade (or stave) which is being tested, not my ability to make friends. I neither need nor desire the help of others in dealing with my personal affairs, when I want help, I'll ask for it, in a duel, that would be the height of shame. If others meddle, then they demonstrate to me their lack of respect for me and their lack of fatih in my abilities.
I do realize this is equivalent to asking people who may want to help me to sit back and watch as I imperil myself.
I never claimed to be a reasonable person. wink

Now, from a non-personal point of view...
It depends entirely on the rules as they are laid for the competition.
In games of chance, altering chance is fine, bumping the dice, not so much.
In games of skill, (beyound the established rules) augmenting one's skill at playing the game is fine, but affecting fortune is not.
In mixed games, anything that is allowed by the rules of the game, and the concensus of the gamers is fine.
(on another personal aside, in RPGs I run, players are expressly forbiden from ensorcelling their dice, on pain of like recompensation against the whole of the gaming group.)

Mostly, it boils down to two parts in my mind...
Do all parties have the potential to use the trick, and does it fit with the spirit of the contest in question.
Life isn't always fair, but I try to keep any game I play on the up and up. 3nodding