No Gods, No Glory - Atheistic and Otherwise Tristic

[Triste-chan]

YOU ARE TERRIBLY IMPRESSED WITH MY WITTY TITLE:

No Gods, No Glory - Atheistic and Otherwise Tristic

[ Note: This thing is under construction. Sue me. ]

Who the hell are you? I am 16 years old and I live in Connecticut, which is a state in the USA for those of you who live elsewhere. I was raised Catholic but my parents are not practicing and my father is extremely disillusioned with the Catholic Church.

I started becoming interested in religion when I was 11 or 12, and I declared myself agnostic for all of a week before deciding that I was really an atheist. At this point I was very angsty and I whined a lot about how the Catholic Church was OMG oppressing me. I got over this by the 8th grade and decided, along with my parents, to go to Holy Cross High School, a private Catholic school.

I am about to enter my junior year and have had no problems concerning my lack of belief. I don't really have problems with religious types.

I have been a member of Gaia since... Christ, September '03? I'm not sure how long I've been posting in ED, but it's been a long time. Anyway, since then I've become majorly interested in religion from a scholarly standpoint, even though I don't have religious beliefs myself.

What the ******** are you doing here? I do not, in fact, consider myself a pagan for a variety of reasons.

• I tend to consider 'paganism' to be a category of religious beliefs, and I technically lack religious beliefs.
  
• I do not believe in magic, souls, spirits, angels, demons, ghosts, or anything remotely supernatural. I realize that not all pagans believe in these things or practice magic, and I realize that not all people who believe in these things and practice magic are pagan. It, combined with other factors, is one of the reasons I don't call myself pagan.
  
• Frankly, there's no need to. 'Atheist' works just fine for me.
  

However, I am posting my beliefs here mostly because A) I am sort of a member of the pagan community despite being, well, not a pagan, and B) I am interesting, damnit.

Anything else? Um. No, not really.

Okay. Just wondering.

- - -


Mate, this God wouldn't "Voom" if you put four million volts through it! He's bleedin' demised!

I do not believe in any god or goddess. However, I do not specifically disbelieve in gods or goddesses either. I lack belief. This is known as soft atheism. There is another form of atheism which specifically denies the existence of gods. Hard atheists believe that gods do not exist. They have belief - specifically, the belief that gods do not exist.

Soft atheism does not require any sort of faith or belief in something without proof, because it does not require belief at all.

I believe that gods are non-falsifiable - they cannot be proven to exist, and they cannot be proven to not exist. Therefore, having a belief concerning the existence of gods is illogical.

On the left you can see Mr. Spock wearing acid dress: is it logical?

Oh, yeah. About the illogical thing - I know that some theists are probably thinking LOL F U or at least 'Wow, what an incredible b***h that Triste is.' Well, you're right. BUT WAIT.

While logic is good and lovely, I don't necessarily consider illogic to be a bad thing even by the usual moral standards. Does belief in god inherently hurt people? No. Therefore, why would it be 'bad'? Just because it's illogical?

I don't use the word 'illogical' as an insult, for the most part. If I call a belief illogical, it's because it lacks logic and requires faith. Don't be offended, you wussies.  

[TeaDidikai]

As an Atheist, have you ever approached ritual from a psychodramatic stance?  

[Triste-chan]

TeaDidikai

As an Atheist, have you ever approached ritual from a psychodramatic stance?

Actually yes. Good question.

I have a deck of tarot cards that I use on occasion, partly for the hell of it and partly as an introspective tool. Plus I've used reagun's online tarot thingy because it's awesome. I don't believe that it can predict the future, but I find that tarot cards can be applied to my life - really, I think tarot cards can by definition be applied to everyone's life because they are so vague. But they make me think about things.  

[TeaDidikai]

This makes me wonder three things.
1) How do you feel Tarot works?
2) Do you think it is possible for cards to pull "incorrectly"?
3) Have you attached ritual or done any other atheistic psychodramatic rituals?  

[Triste-chan]

TeaDidikai

This makes me wonder three things.
1) How do you feel Tarot works?
2) Do you think it is possible for cards to pull "incorrectly"?
3) Have you attached ritual or done any other atheistic psychodramatic rituals?

I hope this doesn't offend you. This is just my belief. It's not something that I have real proof for, and I don't think people who do believe in a supernatural aspect of tarot are stupid or gullible or anything. gonk

1) I suppose it depends on what you mean by 'work.' I personally use them as an introspective tool, as I said. I don't think that it tells the future in the sense that most people think of it.

I tend to think of 'working' in the sense of making people think that it works, since I see this sort of thing as illusory. I think it works much the way I think other forms of psychic readings and divination works - by being vague enough that it can be applied to just about anything, especially if a person goes into it believing that it will work. I also think it works because people are happy to believe two things - one, that they are good people and that their friends are good people, and two, that everyone else is oppressing them. So if a card says something nice, it's about them or their loved ones. If a card says something bad, it's about something bad which is going to happen to them (or has happened to them, or is affecting them, or whatever), and it won't be their fault. You dig?

2) Not really. For instance, let's say you do one of those basic three card spreads with past, present, and future. In fact, I'll do one now.

I pulled the High Priestess for Past, Star for Present, and Heirophant for Future.

High Priestess for Past. You figure the basic aspects there are nonaction/passiveness, the unconscious, potential, and mystery. If you were passive about something that annoyed you, it can apply. If you withdrew from doing something, it can apply. If you ever intuitively known something (which is something that people love to think about themselves, and will think about themselves even if it's nonsense), it can apply. If you've ever had a time when you've had serious growth in any sense, it can apply. You can even interpret it as a message that there is something important in your past that is not so obvious.

Star for present. Present is always the hardest one to match. I notice that I always have to stretch the farthest for the present to match up with my life. So the Star - the basics here are hope, inspiration, seeing the light, being generous, serenity, stuff like that. So you figure this could mean that you have been inspired or you are an inspiration to someone. It could mean that you have hope for something, a positive outlook. That you're hoping for something. That you're a generous person, with money, or possessions, or your time an attention, or even with love. That someone is generous to you with one of these things. That things are calm, or that you are calm despite everything. That you are in harmony with other people, or with the world, or with nature.

Heirophant in the future. So we get education, organized religion, belief systems, faith, conformity, group identity. This could mean that in the future, at any time from the time of the reading untill the time you die, you could join a group. You could get an education. You could find faith in something. You could find a new religion or change your belief system. You could be loyal to others, or have others loyal to you. You could be a follower or a leader. Again, this is at any time in the future. No time frame.

Now with all of those possibilities, can you think of anyone who doesn't fit into at least one of those categories?

I feel that Tarot cards are vague enough that they can be applied to essentially any situation. So I don't think they can be 'wrong.'

3) If you consider those meditation thingies where you are supposed to imagine specific things rather than just zoning, then yes. But I think those are supposed to be psychodramatic, aren't they?  

[TeaDidikai]

You're not offending me Triste.
We just have two very different world views.

I am happy you are putting yours here so that I can understand them better.

Your position on Tarot is interesting to say the least. Due to my experince, while I can understand (and perhaps even enjoy the application of) your position, I cannot ignore my experiences in favor of adopting your understanding as the sum total of what Tarot is.

But I do think your application of Tarot is wonderful and useful.

As for your answer to number three:
May I ask in what way you used (what I would call) Guided Meditation and Visualization (sp?)?  

[Triste-chan]

TeaDidikai

You're not offending me Triste.
We just have two very different world views.

I am happy you are putting yours here so that I can understand them better.

Your position on Tarot is interesting to say the least. Due to my experince, while I can understand (and perhaps even enjoy the application of) your position, I cannot ignore my experiences in favor of adopting your understanding as the sum total of what Tarot is.

But I do think your application of Tarot is wonderful and useful.

As for your answer to number three:
May I ask in what way you used (what I would call) Guided Meditation and Visualization (sp?)?

Ah, Jeez. It's been a while since I've done it (it was part of a therapy thingy - I was in a partial hospital program for a bit), but I tended to use it more as a creative tool than anything else. Not so much looking at myself, but looking at my ideas. The one that I remember most clearly was one where we were told to imagine being on a beach where everything was peaceful and whatnot, and having someone come and discuss something important with them. Rather than getting very emotional and spiritual with it, which is what I think we were supposed to do, I sort of turned it into an artistic thing. It was a really surreal experience - I was talking about all these ideas that I had floating around in my head (writing stories is my passion, so I have tons of them), and it was really like I was talking with another person with them, which is crazy because I never discuss my ideas with anyone.

I use Tarot like that occasionally. As a creative tool rather than an introspective one. It can sort of tell a story, you know?  

[TeaDidikai]

Triste-chan

TeaDidikai

You're not offending me Triste.
We just have two very different world views.

I am happy you are putting yours here so that I can understand them better.

Your position on Tarot is interesting to say the least. Due to my experince, while I can understand (and perhaps even enjoy the application of) your position, I cannot ignore my experiences in favor of adopting your understanding as the sum total of what Tarot is.

But I do think your application of Tarot is wonderful and useful.

As for your answer to number three:
May I ask in what way you used (what I would call) Guided Meditation and Visualization (sp?)?

Ah, Jeez. It's been a while since I've done it (it was part of a therapy thingy - I was in a partial hospital program for a bit), but I tended to use it more as a creative tool than anything else. Not so much looking at myself, but looking at my ideas. The one that I remember most clearly was one where we were told to imagine being on a beach where everything was peaceful and whatnot, and having someone come and discuss something important with them. Rather than getting very emotional and spiritual with it, which is what I think we were supposed to do, I sort of turned it into an artistic thing. It was a really surreal experience - I was talking about all these ideas that I had floating around in my head (writing stories is my passion, so I have tons of them), and it was really like I was talking with another person with them, which is crazy because I never discuss my ideas with anyone.

I use Tarot like that occasionally. As a creative tool rather than an introspective one. It can sort of tell a story, you know?

Yep. My hubby uses tarot to come up with plots for RPGs  

[Poisen_Lotus]

I agree that this is maybe true with inexperienced readers but the tarot can also provide uncanny details. I've done sessions at my mom's work and was able tell a lady She had just opened a new business, another that she had just broken up with a blonde haired blue eyed male. I was also able to discover an unfaithful mate in couple reading. Depending on the spread I can even find dates and locations, so the idea that tarot is so vague it always applies seems silly given my experiences.  

[Kalyani Srijoi]

Poisen_Lotus

I agree that this is maybe true with inexperienced readers but the tarot can also provide uncanny details. I've done sessions at my mom's work and was able tell a lady She had just opened a new business, another that she had just broken up with a blonde haired blue eyed male. I was also able to discover an unfaithful mate in couple reading. Depending on the spread I can even find dates and locations, so the idea that tarot is so vague it always applies seems silly given my experiences.

Given your experiences, perhaps. But why would your experiences effect me?

(This is Triste, by the way. LOLpermaban.)  

[Loona Wynd]

Have you always held your positions on deities, or was there a time in your life when you thought differently, and how does that effect you today?