Great British Politics.

[Gaulia]

We [should] ALL know of the pre-election campaign here in the UK, and one of the adverts which I've seen quite alot on the TV is one which is placing across the general message, "If you 'don't do' politics, you don't do much." So the question I'm asking you lovely people [If you're too damn lazy to read the next part, I know it's not that coherent] is, "If you don't vote, but you're still paying taxes, should you have much of a right to complain?"

I was talking about this with my friend who was saying that it was wrong - you still count if you don't vote because you're still paying taxes, and you are [theoretically] contributing towards how the country is being run.

However, you're not contributing to the way in which the country is being run, you're contributing to what the people who're running the country are planning to do - improve education, the National Health Service, public transport and all that s**t. Taxes are likely to change per political party which enters the government, and are constantly open to political review. And if you don't like what your taxes are being spent on - and it is made very clear before hand the plans on which they're going to spend your money on - then you should have voted.

The argument to this is that you never know EXACTLY what your money is being spent on. You don't get a letter through your door saying,
"Thanks for all your money, we want to spend it on WMDs for the next country which disagrees with us, and our friend America. Is this OK?".
The thing is, regardless whether you vote or not you still have to pay taxes. If you vote for someone and they don't get into office, you still have to pay taxes, whether you like it or not.

Thing is, if you vote for someone and they don't get into office you would still have the right to complain. If you just shut up, not put your say in, and watch things go as they do then why should you have the right to complain? You didn't TRY to do anything to make it better, and just complain when it suits you.

Now, as for the politics part:
Political stances? Labour, Tories, or Democrats? [Or hell, even the monster raving looney party.] Other?
Do you - if you're old enough - [Or will you, when you're old enough] vote?
Do you keep track of the pre-election campaigns? Thoughts on them? (:

Slight off-topic for those not bothered to read the babble I just put.
Gas some people and the whining is reduced by 100%. true or false? biggrin

[x_x]  

[illyrianth]

If one has the right to vote and does not exercise that right, then in truth complaining about the administration is not an option. After all, if all those who couldn't be bothered to vote HAD actually looked around and chosen their candidate carefully...? They might have had something more to their liking. Apathy automatically removes the right to whinge as far as I am concerned. The people I feel FAR more sympathy for are the younger ones who ARE politically aware, yet are not allowed to have their voices heard.

Interestingly, I can see that some bright spark has gone about trying to get prisoners the vote. Not entirely sure I can condone that. Yes, there are those who have been jailed unfairly. Mistakes can and DO happen. But the most part of those in prison today are there for a reason. My opinion is that if you have broken the law of the land and been sent to prison, you automatically forfeit certain rights and privileges.

On the whole though, it's a sad truth that politicians are, for the most part, lying, self centered, egotistical morons who will do anything in order to feather their own nests. There's the occasional good one in every party, but they are rare.

Oh, and for the record...Tony Blair is, in my opinion, a mass murderering, lying, hypocritical scumbag. If only John Smith hadn't died, the Labour Party might have been a party one could trust. Guess which party I will NOT be voting for XD  

[Ph_ish]

I can't vote yet, seeing as I'm only 14, but I plan to when I'm older.

I think that the Lib Dems should have a go at running the ountry for a while. But I know that that isn't going to happen.
And so this election is clearly between Labour and the Tories. I'm disappointed with the things Tony Blair has done of late (e.g. an illegal war to 'free' the Iraqi people which made things a lot worse but at least America got some nice new oil), and I think that if he stepped down, labour would get a lot more votes. Even so, I'd rather have labour in power than the Conservatives.

Like Illy said, politicians aren't the most trustworthy people. But seeing as a job like running a country seems to attract power hungry will-do-anything-for-votes kinds of people, I suppose they'll have to do.  

[Nebelstern]

Ph_ish

I can't vote yet, seeing as I'm only 14, but I plan to when I'm older.

I think that the Lib Dems should have a go at running the ountry for a while. But I know that that isn't going to happen.
And so this election is clearly between Labour and the Tories. I'm disappointed with the things Tony Blair has done of late (e.g. an illegal war to 'free' the Iraqi people which made things a lot worse but at least America got some nice new oil), and I think that if he stepped down, labour would get a lot more votes. Even so, I'd rather have labour in power than the Conservatives.

Like Illy said, politicians aren't the most trustworthy people. But seeing as a job like running a country seems to attract power hungry will-do-anything-for-votes kinds of people, I suppose they'll have to do.

Go Lib Dems! sweatdrop
They won't get in... stop hoping... stressed  

[Gaulia]

People who want to be politicians shouldn't be allowed to.

Aye - when I can, I'll end up voting. If I were old enough to vote this year, then I know that I too for a fact I wouldn't vote for labour. The war was silly - for the main part I reckon Blair dragged us in to it was for our nice buddy America, who got oil and money, and it's always nice to have a powerful ally, eh?
But behind all the mess with the taxes [Thank you, Blair. That's what we need, rich people richer and poor people poorer!], education system [*cough*topupfees*cough*, and other things which I care about because some of them apply to yours truely XD] and yes, the war, Labour have been good for a few things. The NHS waiting list has been drastically improved [And there are plans to cut them still. biggrin DD Thank heavens for this, if they hadn't been improved my friend would be dead. D:], and... I forgot my other example. I'll edit this when I remember. XD
But who knows about the future, eh? Things could go either way.
Buuuuuut.. Even although we all know that it won't happen this time, I'm going to hop on this band-wagon. Go Lib-Dems! biggrin DD

And as for the prisoners being able to vote - I think that it should heavily depend on the circumstances - why said prisoners are in jail, whether they're in the right mind to make a clued up vote, and whether they should be allowed to for their own safety, and without it being influenced by prisoners around them.  

[Ph_ish]

Nebelstern

Ph_ish

I can't vote yet, seeing as I'm only 14, but I plan to when I'm older.

I think that the Lib Dems should have a go at running the ountry for a while. But I know that that isn't going to happen.
And so this election is clearly between Labour and the Tories. I'm disappointed with the things Tony Blair has done of late (e.g. an illegal war to 'free' the Iraqi people which made things a lot worse but at least America got some nice new oil), and I think that if he stepped down, labour would get a lot more votes. Even so, I'd rather have labour in power than the Conservatives.

Like Illy said, politicians aren't the most trustworthy people. But seeing as a job like running a country seems to attract power hungry will-do-anything-for-votes kinds of people, I suppose they'll have to do.

Go Lib Dems! sweatdrop
They won't get in... stop hoping... stressed

Yey! xd
I know (See the third sentence there?). Politics, eh? Can't live which em, probably can't live without them, I'm not sure. Could we have an opinion poll on that?
>_<  

[Nebelstern]

Ph_ish

Nebelstern

Ph_ish

I can't vote yet, seeing as I'm only 14, but I plan to when I'm older.

I think that the Lib Dems should have a go at running the ountry for a while. But I know that that isn't going to happen.
And so this election is clearly between Labour and the Tories. I'm disappointed with the things Tony Blair has done of late (e.g. an illegal war to 'free' the Iraqi people which made things a lot worse but at least America got some nice new oil), and I think that if he stepped down, labour would get a lot more votes. Even so, I'd rather have labour in power than the Conservatives.

Like Illy said, politicians aren't the most trustworthy people. But seeing as a job like running a country seems to attract power hungry will-do-anything-for-votes kinds of people, I suppose they'll have to do.

Go Lib Dems! sweatdrop
They won't get in... stop hoping... stressed

Yey! xd
I know (See the third sentence there?). Politics, eh? Can't live which em, probably can't live without them, I'm not sure. Could we have an opinion poll on that?
>_<

If we went back to having a divine right of kings we could... rolleyes  

[A Lost Iguana]

I'm not so certain about voting. Depends how I feel on the day. I live in a safe Tory seat, and as I shall not be voting for the Conservatives, my vote will go to waste. Such is the problem when you use a flawed plurality system (e.g. first-past-the-post). You see, if you do not vote for the winner, then your vote is useless. The system promotes negative voting tactics whereby voters choose to vote against a candidate rather than voting for their preference. For example, in a seat where Labour hold a slender majority from the Liberals (with the Conservative party far behind) it makes more sense for the Conservative supporters in the area to vote Liberal in an effort to get Labour out of the seat; there is not enough of them to vote the Tory candidate in. The Lib Dems taking the seat would benefit the Conservative party when it comes to trying to get a majority of MPs in Commons.

I dislike this system. I would prefer there to be a ranked system for voting, where you list your preference of candidates. In this system, should you first choice candidate not win then your vote still counts for the second choice, and so on. Which system? A Condorcet method would work nicely (such as Cloneproof Schwartz Sequential Dropping). It would not change the need for one party to take a majority of MPs, but each MP would be elected according to the wishes of the entire voting public in each constituency.

Anyway, now that I am off my soapbox, I might just spoil my ballot paper, or vote for someone... but my vote will not count; elections are won/lost in the marginal seats.

(oh, it would be nice for the House of Lords to be elected as well; you know, we could have a democracy rather then the current crony-ridden oligarchy)  

[Invictus_88]

The first vote of my life (I'm 18 now) will go to the blues.

I have a distrust and dislike of New Labour nannying and meddling and spin and lies. Bugger the lot of them, may they rot in hell.

The lib/dems have done nothing to earn my pity and amusement. The local income tax is unworkable and their policy is very woolly. Kennedy is not PM material and though the party is allegedly growing, it will not get in and hopefully will not get in for quite some time.

The Tories have what strikes me as a refershingly open "this is what we will do, with think it will work because...and if you don't like it, dn't vote for us" sort of line. I like it.

I hope the tories swing it, it would also be good because they'd not have a huge majority and so some of their too-rigid immigration policies may be softened before being enshrined as law.  

[A Lost Iguana]

[ Message temporarily off-line ]  

[Invictus_88]

A Lost Iguana

(oh, it would be nice for the House of Lords to be elected as well; you know, we could have a democracy rather then the current crony-ridden oligarchy)

Perhaps they may soon need a thread of their own, it's quite an issue.  

[Zoutout]

This'll be my first vote, too (turned 18 last June)

I'm not sure who I'll vote for - I think I'll get a list of the ones I think I'd probably vote for, then compare their policies, awarding points to each. The winner gets the vote.

Does anyone know of a site which lists (or at least has links to) summarisations of each party on particular points (Raving Looney Party included)

When it comes down to it, though, every party is lying to some degree - I might as well vote for the one whose lies appeal the most.  

[Invictus_88]

Zoutout

This'll be my first vote, too (turned 18 last June)

I'm not sure who I'll vote for - I think I'll get a list of the ones I think I'd probably vote for, then compare their policies, awarding points to each. The winner gets the vote.

Does anyone know of a site which lists (or at least has links to) summarisations of each party on particular points (Raving Looney Party included)

When it comes down to it, though, every party is lying to some degree - I might as well vote for the one whose lies appeal the most.

The party websites have pretty clear manifesto-points on their websites. There's an index of them in the General Elections thread in the politics subforum of ED.

[here]  

[Zoutout]

Also, I feel I must say a few more things:

1) Were I in Boris Johnson's constituency, evne if I disagreed with everything the Conservatives said, I'd vote for him
2) I have Boris Johnson's autograph (2 in fact) and shook his hand (He came to the debating society, all thanks to my college family who formed the "Boris Johnson fan club")
3) I think Boris Johnson would make a better King than Charles.  

[Gaulia]

Invictus_88

The first vote of my life (I'm 18 now) will go to the blues.

With their 'sunshine of hope' or some egotistical crap. (: