The Dark and Light Sabbats

[Aya Azura]

Ok, so I was reading about the Dark and light Sabbats, and i know it doesn't make them evil or anything, because it has something to do with Involution, and Evolution, where evolution is light, and involution is dark, what I want to know is why from Samhain to Ostara is a Dark, or Samhain, because it's when the Oak King dies, so isn't that Evolution, which is light?  

[CuAnnan]

Aya Azura

Ok, so I was reading about the Dark and light Sabbats, and i know it doesn't make them evil or anything, because it has something to do with Involution, and Evolution, where evolution is light, and involution is dark, what I want to know is why from Samhain to Ostara is a Dark, or Samhain, because it's when the Oak King dies, so isn't that Evolution, which is light?

Urm... that's not how it works.
Four of them, Bealtaine; Samhain; Lunasadh and Imbolg, are Celtic in source. They are lunar events.

The other four are the solstices and equinoxes. They are solar in nature.

As a result, one could call them dark and light, but it would be a misnomer. It implies a direct relationship where none exists.  

[Doctrix]

Oh, ouch. Somebody is listening to Correllian witchschool.com crap. Honey, that's not how it works. That stuff can be fun, but please, please, please, don't take it seriously.  

[TeaDidikai]

[Kudzu]

Oh, ouch. Somebody is listening to Correllian witchschool.com crap. Honey, that's not how it works. That stuff can be fun, but please, please, please, don't take it seriously.

That's how it works for the Correllians.

~snickers~ Good gods.... their elemental alignments make me giggle. But that's another story.

--------
Back to the subject at hand, are you attempting to apply this to all pagan "holiday" models? Or just the eight Quarter/Crossquarter map?  

[Neko_Bast]

When I think of "Dark and Light sabbats," it makes me think of the dark and light halves of the year. From Litha to Yule would be the dark half because that is when the sum wanes, and Yule to Litha would be the light half because the sun is waxing. That doesn't mean that the sabbats are "Dark or Light."  

[TeaDidikai]

Neko_Bast

When I think of "Dark and Light sabbats," it makes me think of the dark and light halves of the year. From Litha to Yule would be the dark half because that is when the sum wanes, and Yule to Litha would be the light half because the sun is waxing. That doesn't mean that the sabbats are "Dark or Light."

I've heard that one before. It makes me wonder though, would not an "Candlemass" to "Lammas" and visa versa make a better Day/Night Dark/Light split because of how subtle the light shift is as you sit between the pole of your hemisphere and the equator?  

[Starlock]

TeaDidikai

Neko_Bast

When I think of "Dark and Light sabbats," it makes me think of the dark and light halves of the year. From Litha to Yule would be the dark half because that is when the sum wanes, and Yule to Litha would be the light half because the sun is waxing. That doesn't mean that the sabbats are "Dark or Light."

I've heard that one before. It makes me wonder though, would not an "Candlemass" to "Lammas" and visa versa make a better Day/Night Dark/Light split because of how subtle the light shift is as you sit between the pole of your hemisphere and the equator?

Well, there are a few ways you can look at dividing the year in terms of light and dark. In the end, though, the wheel of the year is just that... a circle that doesn't have a true begining or end. Different traditions and individuals set up the start of the year at different times.  

[TeaDidikai]

Starlock

Well, there are a few ways you can look at dividing the year in terms of light and dark. In the end, though, the wheel of the year is just that... a circle that doesn't have a true begining or end. Different traditions and individuals set up the start of the year at different times.

Just because something is a wheel, doesn't mean it doesn't have a beginning and an end.

And saying that people will do what they please with bastardized Norse and Celtic holidays doesn't mean it makes sense.  

[Neko_Bast]

TeaDidikai

Just because something is a wheel, doesn't mean it doesn't have a beginning and an end.

And saying that people will do what they please with bastardized Norse and Celtic holidays doesn't mean it makes sense.

I've always wondered Tea......why do you say they are bastardized? I've noticed you say that in multiple threads and was wondering why.  

[CuAnnan]

Neko_Bast

TeaDidikai

Just because something is a wheel, doesn't mean it doesn't have a beginning and an end.

And saying that people will do what they please with bastardized Norse and Celtic holidays doesn't mean it makes sense.

I've always wondered Tea......why do you say they are bastardized? I've noticed you say that in multiple threads and was wondering why.

Because they're taken, out of context, from two spiritual world views with extremely little in common.
They are then mangled to fit into a world view that doesn't recognise the Celtic aspect of the Celtic holidays but takes a decontextualised polarised view, stripping away the concept of Good and Evil and replacing it with Fertility.

She's calling them bastardised because (and any Wiccan will admit to this) they're bastardised.  

[Neko_Bast]

reagun ban

Neko_Bast

TeaDidikai

Just because something is a wheel, doesn't mean it doesn't have a beginning and an end.

And saying that people will do what they please with bastardized Norse and Celtic holidays doesn't mean it makes sense.

I've always wondered Tea......why do you say they are bastardized? I've noticed you say that in multiple threads and was wondering why.

Because they're taken, out of context, from two spiritual world views with extremely little in common.
They are then mangled to fit into a world view that doesn't recognise the Celtic aspect of the Celtic holidays but takes a decontextualised polarised view, stripping away the concept of Good and Evil and replacing it with Fertility.

She's calling them bastardised because (and any Wiccan will admit to this) they're bastardised.

Is there anywhere I can find out was they are like when they aren't "bastardized?"  

[CuAnnan]

Neko_Bast

Is there anywhere I can find out was they are like when they aren't "bastardized?"

The Celtic ones, any good Recon group will celebrate them.
They get celebrated at Tara a lot, but so do the solstices and equinoxes. We just like celebrating them.
The AsatruaR most likely celebrate the Nordic ones Norse Style.
Probably less sex violence and alcohol involved.
*runduckhidefromdeo*  

[TeaDidikai]

reagun ban

The AsatruaR most likely celebrate the Nordic ones Norse Style.
Probably less sex violence and alcohol involved.
*runduckhidefromdeo*

Depends on the group.

Speaking as someone who celebrates with Asatru- Nothing says lovin' like beating the ******** s**t out of your hubby with a hard piece of wood while drinking mead then having him ******** the beating s**t out of you with his own wood.

Ummmm.... was that over the top?  

[CuAnnan]

TeaDidikai

reagun ban

The AsatruaR most likely celebrate the Nordic ones Norse Style.
Probably less sex violence and alcohol involved.
*runduckhidefromdeo*

Depends on the group.

Speaking as someone who celebrates with Asatru- Nothing says lovin' like beating the ******** s**t out of your hubby with a hard piece of wood while drinking mead then having him ******** the beating s**t out of you with his own wood.

Ummmm.... was that over the top?

Just a little dear.
I'll be scowring my brain for weeks.  

[TeaDidikai]

reagun ban

Just a little dear.
I'll be scowring my brain for weeks.

Pish. Like you're one to talk.