So me and Naomi would like to dispute your post in response to our own, not to mention the one prior...
Nowhere at all does your setup post mention anything about patrolling around the island or the like. The island has 1 port and you are logically waiting there to encounter any incoming vessels since you neglected to mention you are patrolling about the island.
It also seemed a bit weird that Krah-Khen would ignore the fact that his new ally had been essentially placed under attack as he must have heard the shotgun fired within 10 feet of his new ally yet he made zero effort nor concern for his allies safety regarding the immediate threat and instead began to assume more people would try and arrive from beyond the island despite being completely new to the surface as a whole and not even knowing what a boat is until recently.
We have reason to believe that you intentionally chose a different course of action because you knew that more people would in fact be arriving, despite the immediate threat and danger standing right there by his new friend.
As for your response post, you not only metagamed that you were patrolling the correct side of the island as we approached (despite the fact that your first post never said you were patrolling) and proceeded to come up and just instantly capsize one of our ships.
There should by all accounts be no window in which you can even do this however. Naomi's post set up a very clear time schedule for our arrival in accordance with our alarms. Alarms are put out during the raid itself and the Marines are to arrive just as it is ending, otherwise there is legitimately no point in the alarm system if we are alerted after the raid is done or else we'd arrive after an escape has been done already. The Marines are intended to arrive just as the raid is finished up to avoid such shenanigans and that is the purpose of the 24 hour lock down.
Truthfully because of the above, allowing the raiders to freely post as they please until a Marine makes an official post at the location before those 24 hours are up is a folly that only serves to further complicate these kinds of situations.
TL;DR we disagree with you being able to intervene upon our arrival at the island in the way that you have. Allowing you to even go under water post raid and before we arrive is just permitting a free escape basis for fishmen as you could literally just swim away under the surface unnoticed in most cases this way since you require no ship to go anywhere.
Also, Penguin has just attempted to flee the area entirely just because the 24 hours have passed exactly as we knew he would. You are both acting in ways that are meta in regard to fruit possession of arriving Marines and exp gaps specifically to escape the island with ease. Specifically Penguins post contradicts Aves with his mention of the following line
Quote:
However with his sail hit and a sudden wave pushing his boat in to sea, unknowing to him that movement of the waves was being caused by the sudden movement of the wotan, he would be getting further from shore.
Given that Ave is attempting to cut off Vittoria and Luka, the Wotan in question is literally on the opposite side of the island and should not be making waves on your side of the island at all. If penguin is benefiting from waves created by Ave's post, that would require that we are not intercepted at all for timing to be correct because his water is literally just at shore and would only be possible if Krah-Khen were only just entering the water at that time or passing right by that side of the island and not the opposite end where Luka and Vittoria are currently arriving from.
PonderingPenguin
Avedis Angelus
Cpt Gucci Suit
Naomi Tenkou
I'm heading to bed, Naomi is posting here in the morning....
Just a real quick thing. I will say what I said in discord. What I put was flavor text it had no real purpose other than make the fact that we are all on the same island and the actions are effecting us all since it is a small island. Me pushing my boat in to sea still applies. I'll admit I may have made a mistake adding that in.
Also talking about knowing stuff you shouldn't. You guys automatically saw my character as the suspect even though the call hadn't described him in detail. Reasonibly so seeing how a giant sea monster destroying the place would make them focus on that. Two you guys assumed we were in a port when that had not at all been the thing. Three you guys knew the exact place "our port" happen to be? Four Naomi setting up the time zone wouldn't even be correct. Let's say you you guys found it half way through the raid because of the call. You guys were at the marine base not in our blue. In a one man boat without any attachments you can't simply ignore the time it gets there so you are really stretching it when it comes to arriving near the island. Making a detour to avoid a sea monster you aren't even aware of where he is.
Also you guys mentioned me waiting for my 24 hours to be up so I can escape. I was waiting for three things, my customs to be approved, you guys to post, and Avedis to post. Just like you guys accused me for that I can accuse you of trying to use this time to wait for someone else to appear or Avedis to come and try and save me from Thadeous. And the new rule with raiding. You guys still have a chance to chase me after I escape. So I'm still not even scot free
Posted: Sun Feb 05, 2017 11:57 pm
Dcme
These two screen shots help prove that Thaddeus tried to pull a fast one on us. It wasn't even changing something not important. He made a regular gun shot turn in to a gun shot with his special ammo. Which would change the outcome of what would happen.
1. Krah-Khen was purposely not placed close enough to the island to hear what was going down on the island. He was close enough to see that there was another boat near where Ben's boat was then proceeded to keep anyone else from reaching the island until he saw Ben's boat going off the island. Which if there was any issue, it should have been that Edo's boat might not be near Ben's boat. Doesn't know who's boat it is, who's there, where they are, just that the boats are there.
2. Krah-Khen's intention is to cut off ANY BOAT COMING TOWARDS THE ISLAND. This does not mean, any boat on one side of the island heading towards one portion of the island. this means that he is searching for ANY BOAT. I'd assume that means he's circling the island searching for ANY BOAT that is coming close to the island whether or not it is from the north, south, east, west, above his mother ******** head as a flying boat. ANY BOAT...and actually it says -anyone- not any boat. But none the less.
3. With that being said however, even if it was on ONE SIDE of the island, then it would actually be on the North Side. Because if you weren't aware, Ben's post arriving says he's on the shore, NOT at a port. In addition to this, Krah-Khen had come to Torino Kingdom DIRECTLY from the north blue, and in no way did I mention a port in his posts at all. Krah-Khen and Ben were talking nearby a shore at the edge of the island. Nothing mentioning ports of the island at all. And based on Krah-Khen's previous position in terms of where he had come from it had to have been on the northern side of the island. So you know, oops guess you didn't realize things around you?
4. You claim that -I- am metagaming, and that -I- am intentionally choosing to do something in a certain way when you are doing the EXACT same thing. YOU knew I was in the water, not Luka and not Vittoria, you attempted to find a way around it and frankly you failed. Because as mentioned, if you're coming in from the north, you're coming in from the direction that Ben and Thaddeus are already in, which is also the side that Ben's boat is at, which just so happens the be the area you TRIED to automatically place my character in logically. Since it's understood you both were intending on travelling from the same direction and only one gave specific directions I'm simply interpreting it as you both coming from the north. Although if we want to be extremely technical on it, Krah-Khen attacked a village he was able to see from the northern short of the island, So it's more than likely on the west or east of the island not on the south of the island. So based on Naomi's post only, since she did not give a specific direction she -could have- been coming in from the opposite side of where Krah-Khen had been.
5. You're claiming to get here before I enter the water AND before Thaddeus got there, when ha yeah no I highly doubt that. In fact, the alarm specifically says there is a sea monster attacking the village, and someone trying to steal their treasure. Krah-Khen was in fact in the village for a short amount of time before simply jumping into the water. You're claiming in this small amount of time he was in the village you responded to the raid, and made it all the way to the island from HQ or wherever before that. You're not even cutting into one of my posts, you're completely cutting a whole post of mine out of the equation, which is of all things just ********. Since you're literally IGNORING a WHOLE POST.
6. Krah-Khen doesn't know what a port is, or it's significance to water based travelling. He in fact only knows boats are used by people to travel water since they can't just swim from island to island and that people he had talked to told him boats tasted good. So there's no reason for Krah-Khen to specifically guard the port from boats AT ALL. So never even bring that portion of your argument up again.
7. I actually had thought I put in the post that he -attempted- to smack the boat in that way. That was an error on my part because when I initially wrote the post it was an attempt to ram the boat, but then I decided a tentacle smack would have been cooler. Regard that attack as an attempted attack, not an instant capsize...although there wouldn't really by much you could do about that anyways.
8. I am by no means acting meta in regard to fruit possession. Krah-Khen's intention was to knock over whoever's boat that came by. Devil Fruit User, Merperson, Fishperson, Human, AD-Human, Vampire, Werewolf, Fairy, Sea Serpent, whatever. Any boat that was not the boat of Ben's was going to be attacked if he could notice it. Because the only situation that did not immediately benefit him would be Fishperson or Merperson. Humans are not going to swim as fast as him right?
9. I actually am in a bit of an agreement with Penguin's post, however he claims it is just flavor. I still don't think I should have been mentioned in it in the way that I had been. However as I previously pointed out, because you're coming from the north, we're all on the same side of the island anyways. I still do not think we're close enough for Krah-Khen's movement to affect Penguin's ship.
10. Ben never wants to fight....he didn't want to fight Cassius or Kasiun. I don't think him attempting to escape is any form of meta knowledge. It's just him playing Ben.
11. Perhaps the system is ******** a bit, but frankly just because it's ******** a bit doesn't mean you can ignore it. You can bring it up that it should be changed, but as is that's how it works. You're by no means arriving before I get into the water and begin to go around to stop boats, simply because I'm already in the water and doing just that. Entered water in one post, began my plan before ya'll came. And ya'll pretty much took up nearly the whole time you guys had. So...._shrug_
12. If you'd like to hear it, I do have a compromise considering the situation is a bit crazy. As honestly, I've been saying the past day to people on calls I'm in. I really don't want to be killing people's characters like that. I have no issues with your characters directly, but my character doesn't much care about that.
In these shots I'm accusing Penguin of Powerplaying, Metagaming, and overall down playing my character as a whole. But I'll get back to that.
I'm going to say Penguin's screenshot are meaningless. due to the fact that his had insufficient evidence that I nefariously tampered with my post.
The only difference would be Slug to Vanilla Slug, which within the first 4 mintues of my post being up would have been changed, I admit my fault. HOWEVER I did not list the item in my format which by roleplay rules would make that item void. Me going back and adding that in would be nefarious as well as intent to cheat. Wither or not i shot him with a slug or vanilla slug I did not properly list the item which means it never happened. Moving on
Penguin's screenshot are from 11:19 - 11:20 PM no date specified. As I said in the discord my post had remained the same from 10:30 pm 2/5/2017 until now.
First off I'll leave you with this.
So here we have intentional stalling, While penguin and I's debate thread was up and running, the fight between the Marine's and the sea monster has nothing to do with us I would hardly say It's
Krah-Khen, Benjamin VS Thaddeus VS Vittoria Vance ,Luka Scarlet
I have no reason to fight the marines, nor do they have reason to fight me unless they were to have responded to the raids in Skypiea in which they did not.
So with that continuing my rant, If i had edited my post why wait all this time to say something? Why wait until AFTER you've posted ignoring damage to say something? Seems a little odd to I would say something Then post accordingly. So with time being a factor I can pull up old posts pre edit on my phone also so long as I don't refresh the page, Penguin waited all this time to say something, who's really pulling the fast one?
And to adress my issue's with is last post assuming that the entire attack is not voided, You power played my character without my consent.
Quote:
Now the man decided to go and shoot at his leg while he couldn't react to it its not like he actually hit his leg. With the incline of the hill they were on and the man walking higher up the shot his what would be his metal chamber. Still leg shot or not his cyborg body wouldn't be able to handle it. Staggering back from the shot the man took 2 more feet away from him which with his new plan was good. The further he was the less effective his shot gun will be he also seemed to be reloading. Turning he made a full sprint to his boat while the red haired man had taken his steps and reloaded.
Please note this hill incline was never before mentioned in ANY of Penguin's previous posts, so placing me on a newly formed hill any by saying that allowed your character to simply become stagger, then with a wounded leg make a full undisturbed sprint for your ship is beyond my simple comprehension.
In these shots I'm accusing Penguin of Powerplaying, Metagaming, and overall down playing my character as a whole. But I'll get back to that.
I'm going to say Penguin's screenshot are meaningless. due to the fact that his had insufficient evidence that I nefariously tampered with my post.
The only difference would be Slug to Vanilla Slug, which within the first 4 mintues of my post being up would have been changed, I admit my fault. HOWEVER I did not list the item in my format which by roleplay rules would make that item void. Me going back and adding that in would be nefarious as well as intent to cheat. Wither or not i shot him with a slug or vanilla slug I did not properly list the item which means it never happened. Moving on
Penguin's screenshot are from 11:19 - 11:20 PM no date specified. As I said in the discord my post had remained the same from 10:30 pm 2/5/2017 until now.
First off I'll leave you with this.
So here we have intentional stalling, While penguin and I's debate thread was up and running, the fight between the Marine's and the sea monster has nothing to do with us I would hardly say It's
Krah-Khen, Benjamin VS Thaddeus VS Vittoria Vance ,Luka Scarlet
I have no reason to fight the marines, nor do they have reason to fight me unless they were to have responded to the raids in Skypiea in which they did not.
So continuing with my rant, If i had edited my post why wait all this time to say something? Why wait until AFTER you've posted ignoring damage to say something? Seems a little odd, I would say something then post accordingly. So with time being a factor I can pull up old posts pre edit on my phone also so long as I don't refresh the page, Penguin waited all this time to say something, perhaps it has something to do with Penguin's pending updates 1, 2 both of which would have already happened after the debate thread had already gone up and my post... posted. So who's really pulling the fast one?
And to address my issue's with his last post assuming that the entire attack is not voided, You power played my character without my consent.
Quote:
Now the man decided to go and shoot at his leg while he couldn't react to it its not like he actually hit his leg. With the incline of the hill they were on and the man walking higher up the shot his what would be his metal chamber. Still leg shot or not his cyborg body wouldn't be able to handle it. Staggering back from the shot the man took 2 more feet away from him which with his new plan was good. The further he was the less effective his shot gun will be he also seemed to be reloading. Turning he made a full sprint to his boat while the red haired man had taken his steps and reloaded.
Please note this hill incline was never before mentioned in ANY of Penguin's previous posts, so placing me on a newly formed hill any by saying that allowed your character to simply become stagger, then with a wounded leg make a full undisturbed sprint for your ship is beyond my simple comprehension.
So let me continue, Thaddeus stepping back 2 feet would have happened AFTER I shot Ben... So why then does Penguin acknowlege that within the first sentence of his post, then downplay the damage. By that time Ben would have already been shot.
Quote:
Interesting the man seemed to be fairly fast on his feet as his attempt to reach him was failing as the guy kept his distance. While he hadn't sprinted Ben knew that he wasn't all too fast and if the guy was going to simply walk further and further away.
And that brings me nicely to my next issue. Metagaming.
Quote:
Interesting the man seemed to be fairly fast on his feet.
How would Ben be able to gauge my speed if Thaddeus not once broke out into a sprint, jog, or any type of hustle. In fact Thaddeus had not moved until AFTER he'd fired at Ben.
Going back to simply add a in game comparison DC's character Johnny achieved victory over Marine Luka by dealing a critical blow that caused him to no longer wish to inflict more damage. X And you mean to tell me Ben with NO cyborg parts aligned to his HUMAN legs could take a shot to the legs, stagger then literally
Quote:
full sprint to his boat while the red haired man had taken his steps and reloaded.
Giving this man an automatic W for an Item which I no long will acknowledge being used during my last post due to not properly listing it, would be nothing short of a Christmas Miracle. Do I wish to continue battling, possibly there are characters here whom I've never had the pleasure of interacting with. But was it worth staying up till 4:30 in the morning typing this 5 page report, no.
He's got me with 1 thing, I've got him with a solid 2. Let's see where this goes from here.
Sorry for the double post.
Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 7:01 am
DCme
Please bring your attention to Ave's 7th point. Snm
Just quick notes on what Edo said. I said 4 hours because no matter if I post a hundred times I still have to wait 24 hours to actually even leave. Even though my intention was to escape the entire time. So literally when I posted didn't matter at all my character would still have gotten on the boat and attempted escape.
Also there was no fighting between the sea monster and marines at the time. In fact in their post they ignored them and confronted us. So the whole them doing nothing with us is just plain wrong.
Okay first my cola buy means nothing. I wouldn't be able to use it because my techniques wouldn't be accepted. So I would have no use for it. Two you posted the fight thread literally moments before I did my exp update (4 minutes to be exact). And I did it before you even actually attacked my character or mine yours (23 minutes). So that fight thread is not even valid to stopping me from my exp update and if it is then that's fine. I don't mind not getting those 10 stat points.
The hill I mention is the environment we are in. Torino Kingdom is in a plateau, The picture and anime shows this. If we are near the shore we would have an incline and that's being generous the image makes it more of a cliff than a hill.
About downplaying your character. You see the stubby feet my character has. That's literally his legs the rest is an iron body since he is a cyborg. I don't have any attachment but he is still part machine by definition. (In my case only his head would be the only flesh part of him)
Also Edo you got caught editing your post we have no idea if you would have brought up the shells being your custom item and changed the outcome. And Dcme even asked you after I sent him the photos I forgot you edited. And you blatantly lied. I also have reason to believe you shouldn't even be in Torino kingdom but because I don't have proof, I can't really back this up that you edited your post just to come to the island besides the fact that you already shown you would and would lie about it.
Edit: Forgot to address the fact that my post I mentioned Edo's character was fast. That again is flavor text. Whether I have it there or not that doesn't change my character's actions. Plus when you are 6 feet tall and have a long legs therefore a long stride most people will assume you are fast.
One last thing about how I basically repeated myself in my post. That I have no excuse other than I suck at roleplaying half the time. I wasn't very enthusiastic about this fight and really didn't put much effort in not repeating myself. I just wanted to make my actions clear and how Ben responded to what.
Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 8:49 pm
Okay so I have some things that may differ from Ryu's perspective and I'll just go through what I see and kind of address it bit by bit. Starting with Penguin's reply and then Ave's
"You guys automatically saw my character as the suspect even though the call hadn't described him in detail."
The alert that went out to the marines mentioned both a sea monster and "Someone is trying to steal our kingdom's treasure". So far as I can tell this indicates that somebody saw Ben attempting to steal treasure or is least blaming him in a prejudicial manner. Either way at minimum they should have been able to give a size description and possibly a bare bones description of attire since Ben was seen. Logically there might have been a more specific description of Ben than big but I didn't want to describe much about Ben when it's kind of hard to tell what he actually looks like to me. So I went off very base descriptions of the suspects without more having been said in regards to their looks. Now neither Vittoria nor Luka knows for certain that Ben is the culprit but they suspect it and this suspicion was very clearly stated as just that, a suspicion. This was reasoned out in post and then specifically because they do not know for certain that Ben is the culprit Luka issued a verbal charge asking for more info. At this point it's entirely possible that Ben could talk his way out of things or even shift blame onto Thad. A peaceful arrest is an option as well. These things are not set in stone and I hope that we were pretty honest about saying that they don't know anyone's guilt or innocence for certain. As for focusing or not focusing on a sea monster, the alert mentioned both suspects and the two characters did what they felt would minimize the danger such a creature would present to themselves as they very well may be unequipped for such an encounter. There are a plethora of reasons for not going monster hunting and instead looking to arrest the humanoid culprit.
"Two you guys assumed we were in a port when that had not at all been the thing." & "Three you guys knew the exact place "our port" happen to be?"
This is a discrepancy between my post and Ryu's. My post never once mentions a port, only a landing point otherwise known as the general side of the island where you likely came ashore. As for knowing the general side on which you probably came from the most likely option would be the shoreline that lined up with the direction you guys attacked the village from. Perhaps it's wrong of me to think like this but somehow somebody got a message to the marines that they are under attack and the most probable way this was accomplished is by den den mushi due to time constraints. If the marines are on the phone with this person they can simply ask simple questions like "which side of the village did they attack from" or "where on the island is your village". Basic information gathering stuff that any kind of police force would ask. Then using such information our characters could easily rationalize that your attack came from such and such a general area. For IC evidence of such intelligence, Vittoria is a well read academic who in her current inventory is carrying a book about war and strategies. Clearly she is someone that at least considers strategy and would attempt to use the resources available to marines so as to increase their chances of a safe and successful mission.
However, even ignoring the logic in this, the alert system gives us the ability to respond to pirate raids and confront said pirates. Nobody so far as I'm aware has taken issue with the fact that marines show up and confront pirates post raid. There is no point in how the alert systems function if it is not designed to create RPC confrontation. Regardless of logic, somehow marines are always able to show up and confront pirates (so long as it is within 24 hours IRL). It is not stipulated that marines need to conduct an entire investigation just to find out where on the island the pirates are. Hopefully we can all agree that such an endeavor is time consuming and ultimately not what is intended by the system. So despite presenting a truncated "how" in my post (coordinating with base and the info department) it shouldn't really be a huge issue as it's just silly and time consuming to say that marines have 24 hours to reach the island and then in RP track you down instead of marines simply responding to an alert and arriving at a raid location to confront pirates.
As for a time line I think it's pretty apparent that everyone is in agreement that Marines have a travel time. So logically if we were alerted to a raid after it was over the pirates would be long gone by the time we got there. While the 24 hour rule physically stops you from leaving, from an IC perspective again it makes 0 sense in most cases for people to just hang around waiting for marines to show up. Particularly when in your case you stated that Ben was in a hurry to leave. If we have travel time and have to get there before the pirates are gone then we would physically have to be alerted at some point during the raid and arrive before the pirates are able to leave. Trying to get into boat attachments and how long it takes to cross a blue is way more in depth than this guild is. At any rate I at least made an effort to account for the potential extra time (since marine base ain't stipulated as being in one blue or another that argument isn't really that valid imo) by not arriving on the actual scene until Thad was confronting Ben. Ultimately however the alert system says we are able to respond and you must wait 24 hours to allow us to respond for no response to be made. The alert system itself assumes that a confrontation happens when marines respond and when we respond you are not allowed to leave until you beat us or escape the ensuing fight.
"When a marine responds, they MUST post back to the pirates alarm, saying they are assigning themselves to this alert. ONLY THOSE ASSIGNED MAY GO. First come first serve. After the battle, if the pirate(s) was successful in defeating their opponent(s), then they are free to escape."
"Making a detour to avoid a sea monster you aren't even aware of where he is."
Again it was laid out pretty thoroughly what Vittoria's suspicions were, and how they planed to deal with said suspicions. They do not need to actually know where the sea monster is, only to have made an educated guess that happens to work out correctly. Just because it was actually correct does not mean that our characters knew it was. Basically they don't need to actually know where he is to act on the provided information and their own reasoning. Essentially if person A says they intend to do B, but person C's character avoids action B through using in game information and the talents of their characters that is not meta gaming. In other words your attempted action failing does not automatically make the person causing it to fail a meta gamer. For example the marine Simba with his boner for justice may just charge in without a second thought about what the enemy might be doing, that's not how Vittoria works.
As for whether or not you purposely waited out the time to exploit the 24 hour rule, there's edo's screen shot which doesn't look good. But also that wasn't the only time you made such a reference to counting to the 24 hour mark: (link)
Whether or not you were joking you still made multiple references to just counting down to the 24 hour mark and specifically asked about the rules on what constitutes a fight earlier as well to be sure that if you don't fight back it's not technically considered a fight. It does looks like you thoroughly intended to simply skip out on the marine response rather than follow the alert system and be confronted. Personally I think you're a pretty cool dude and am more than willing to give you the benefit of the doubt. Though that also brings me to the next part of this which involves Ave too.
The following is a shortened time line of OOC events that I will demonstrate shortly:
2/4 11:49-50pm: Ryu and I announce ourselves as the raid responders 2/5 12:07am: Penguin openly writes about how we are fruit users and at 12:55 asks Ave to drown us to which Ave responds that if penguin can deal with Edo he can stop others from coming 2/5 1:05am: Ave declares that another boat had appeared in the area of where he met Penguin (the point where penguin pulled his boat ashore) and uses this as justification to not only perform a 180 degree change from what he declared as his character's intent prior to the knowledge that Ryu and I were coming, but also as justification for enacting what was openly discussed in OOC as a method of dealing with the responding fruit using marines. However neither Edo nor Penguin noted the existence of this boat in said area and they posted prior to Ave.
If the OOC convo is not enough to prove meta gaming it still looks really shitty but then there's the IRP problems too. During their initial posts it was established that Krah-khen is quite unfamiliar with a multitude of things on the surface to the point that he doesn't even know what a boat or splinters are. It was also established that he really really wants to eat a boat, so much so that he accepted a deal that was the money required to buy a boat in exchange for aiding Ben. In Ave's final post of the raid he states: "Leaning down and taking a large leap off the ground, into the air and then diving into the water nearby he began to swim around the side of the island to get back to where he had first met the other person. After all, the man promised that he would get Krah-Khen a boat that he could eat. As such he and Krah-Khen had to meet up again somewhere. He assumed it would be where they were."
Prior to Ave knowing that Ryu and I would be responding to the raid Krah-khen clearly intended to simply wait for Ben so that he could get his much sought after reward of money for a boat. After the both of them discussing the idea of drowning us Ave posts again but this time with a magic boat that didn't exist before and uses it to attempt to do exactly what was discussed in discord. Besides the obviousness of the OOC and complete 180 in IC plan after learning who was responding, Krah-khen's reaction to the magic boat makes 0 sense. He has no knowledge that anyone is responding to the raid, is so unfamiliar with the surface world that he is ignorant of the primary means of transportation or things as simple splinters and as such would have no way of evening knowing that other people could be alerted to what was occurring on the island, and also has no way of identifying what ships are hostile and no logical basis for why any ship approaching the island would be hostile. Since again he is ignorant of the surface he has no reason to believe that others would be coming specifically to attack Ben. Beyond which if there was a new boat waiting for him at the meeting place it seems far more likely that Krah-khen would be keen on eating said boat rather than coming to the conclusion that hostile people were coming to the island. Not to mention giving 0 consideration to the possibility that by going out to stop other boats he might miss Ben leaving or that Ben might never get to leave the island because he was stopped on land and thus Krah doesn't get a boat.
At any rate I think it's pretty obvious that attempting to block us from even reaching the island was super meta. From it's OOC discussion to it literally happening like it was discussed. Frankly anything to do with attempting to intercept us sea seems tainted by meta and should not be permitted.
Having expressed my views about that meta issue I will now address ave's points:
1. Openly admitting that Khra-khen doesn't know the who, what, and where regarding the boat in your post would imply that he doesn't know the why either and making conclusions off it's existence would be wild speculation at that point. Especially one such as that he should go on to stop other boats. But again the bigger issue is that said boat doesn't exist in Penguin's or Edo's post and is the justification for actions to perform what was discussed OOCly as a way of specifically dealing with Ryu and myself. Besides if you remove the magic boat that was not present in Edo's or Penguin's post Krah-Khen has absolutely 0 reason, if he didn't already have none, to carry out his patrolling. Not to mention that if was Edo's boat, Ave has no authority to put it there since it is Edo's boat and Edo did not stipulate seeing Penguin's boat upon arrival or even that he was in that general area.
2. Myself and several other people did not read from your initial post that he had begun to actively circle the island as no such action was ever actually stated explicitly. Which on that point even if he was circling the island there would be no guarantee that he would just so happen to come across our boats, that our boats would be the only boats he came across, or that our boats would be the first boats that he came across. Again though it was never actually stated that he was circling the island whether or not you intended it to be that way.
3. As I said when addressing Penguin's point I never used the term port or dock or anything like it. My post uses the term landing point, aka where you came ashore. In terms of you being on the north side of the island because you came from North Blue if you look at a map of the one piece world and read about its geography it is actually impossible to travel between blues without either crossing the Red Line or the Calm Belts. In other words for the sake of role play we magic between the blues. There's not really logic to magically doing something people in canon can not. Beyond that though my post stipulated that we would arrive opposite to your landing point based on information gathered by marine base staff. If you had arrived on the North shore Ryu's use of north would be erroneous based on my prior post. That being said as you didn't stipulate such a thing ahead of time it's a little hard to claim it as fact after all is said and done to begin with. The reason I specifically chose opposite side was because you guys provided no such information and I did not want to say Ben's boat was somewhere that it was not.
4. The point about the "north shore" is irrelevant as it has been addressed above and again at no point did either character state as fact that Krah was totes for sure in the water. It was all entirely speculative and evolved IC from logical points such as "a sea monster would probably be in the sea since it was no longer attacking the village". So again we arrived opposite your landing according to my post which means the "south" if you arrived on the "north". One thing I'd like to note though is that:
There is an error in my post that makes the timing a bit weird and I apologize for that. Where it says "shortly before the mighty the sea beast had even entered the waters on the opposite side and before Thaddeus arrived on the scene." I was not clear about meaning the entering the water to stop boats from arriving. Note that I stated entered the water on the opposite side. Meaning that before Krah reached the "north shore" which according to your post was after Edo arrived. I did not mean that it was when Khra dived into the water for his swim to the "north side" to await Ben but rather before he reached said destination. As well where it says Thaddeus arrived on the scene it is referring to Thad reaching the raided village. So essentially the timing is that we reached the opposite side of the island before Khra decided to patrol and just before Thaddeus had walked whatever distance inland to the raid spot. Then as Thad stalked Ben back to the shore Luka and Vittoria ran from the "south shore" to to the raid point further "north" before catching up with Thad and Ben on the "north shore" where they had originally figured the perps would be fleeing to. Regardless of my cleriity errors, potential or otherwise, in my post regarding the positioning of Thad, Ben, and Khra my post states that we did not actually catch up with Thad and Ben until Thad was confronting Ben aka the shenanigans at the opposite shore/Ben's boat. If you guys would like I can make edits to clarify the path across the island.
So noting the above, we reached the island at about the same time as Thad (whom you also missed arriving while swimming to the "north shore" ) had reached the raided town and started looking around. Then we ran from the opposite ("south" ) shore to the raided town (which you claim was visible from the "north shore" ) before eventually catching up with Thad and Ben during their confrontation and while Krah was out at sea (your post before ours). This does not ignore your post, and it does not fail to make sense time wise as it puts our arrival at the island near the end of the raid and even allows some time to pass as we cross it on foot. If speed is a question then I need to point to the concept that Krah-Khen can catch their boats with a mere 50 speed if swimming. Vittoria clocks in at 110 and Luka is even faster. If according to Red's answer in the questions thread Khra-Khen can swim faster than 30mph with 50 speed, Vittoria who possess more than double his speed and a fraction of his weight, size, and ultimately friction could easily be breaking 60 mph on land. So I mean it's not unlikely that they could simply run across the island at that point and catch up to Ben who only has 35 speed.
As for the accusation of you meta gaming I stated most of why I feel that you did already.
5. Please see #4 and also with my timing it does not ignore your post. You are simply in the water doing your thing while we are already on land.
6. Anything about a port is erroneous and was a mistake in Ryu's post though your answer here once again begs the question of why Krah-ken wouldn't have simply stopped to eat the new owner-less boat that is there rather than coming to the conclusion that he suddenly needs to defend the island from people traveling on boats.
7. There are numerous ways that your attempt to capsize the boat could be countered with defensive attempts/actions. Please do not assume your attack is unavoidable. Especially given questions of things like how far out you'd need to be to swim uninhibited or to dive down deep for a surface charge, or while underwater how far away you can actually see something on the surface from underwater when visibility underwater is notoriously horrendous.
8. If you are meta gaming it is in regards to changing your character's plan of action from the previously stated one in your final raid post (from before you knew who would or even if someone would respond to the raid) to take action on a plan which was discussed in OOC after it was determined that Ryu and I would be the responding marines. Basically it looks like until you knew that it would be two devil fruit marines responding Khra-khen had no plans to intercept people attempting to reach the island, he was simply going to wait for Ben.
9. Based on my post we would not be arriving from where Ben came ashore so if Khra-khen had intercepted us he would not be on the same side as Ben. Imo since you posted before that post before, if your post intercepting us is valid what Penguin wrote is error unless you actually are over there.
10. Questions about Penguin trying to circumvent the raid response are undoubtedly coming from comments he made in discord. Which again make it look like he was just waiting out the timer so he could leave. Whether or not Ben doesn't like to fight, that shouldn't mean someone should attempt to circumvent a system. If allowed to progress as the events were at the end of Ryu's post, Penguin would have ample opportunity to RP Ben in a way that attempts to avoid fighting without the appearance of trying to circumvent the system.
11. Again I disagree and feel that I presented a pretty solid timeline for how Vittoria and Luka arrived on the opposite side of the Island as Khra-Khen was reaching the landing point side and finding the previously unmentioned boat. But also the 24 hour time limit is specifically meant to allow other players time to see that you raided, and get their characters to that location for a confrontation. When we are actually able to post during that IRL time limit has no bearing on our ability to respond promptly in RP time. Hence there is no "used up our time" Which on that note I do not think you should have been told that you can continue posting before we show up, because again it completely negates the reasoning behind the system and allows obvious loop holes to be exploited. Such as that you could have opted to entirely circumvent the alert system rules by hanging out underwater. Specifically this would violate rule #12 of the guild: "No loopholing or system abuse of any kind. Get gud..."
12. I would be open to hear your compromise and also would still like to offer that we can simply not do this entire debate about the validity of Khra-khen intercepting them and go with that Khra-khen decided to do what he was going to do before you knew we were responding, wait for Ben, and resume with Vittoria and Luka asking Ben and Thad what is going on. That or we are on the island and Krah is now patrolling.
DCME
tldr; I'm sorry DC, and I luv you but there is no short version since there was a lot for me to respond to.
Alright. Let's see what I can do. Gimme some time here.
Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 11:56 pm
Dcme
PonderingPenguin
I'm sorry DC I just gotta get one last thing in there,
Your character has been shot!
Ben's HP: 165
Thaddeus's Acc: 65
That's 32.5 damage dealt, According to the combat guildline, that would fall under a moderate wound and deal 20 damage from now on, you acknowledge that. So with your characters "Stubby feet", note Ben is only 8 feet away from me with 65 acc! He gets shot, then Full Sprints to his boat. While all of this my character is struggling to complete the strenuous act of 2 steps backward... Without even turning my back.
And with those Stubby feet moving at 35 speed, and Thaddeus moving at 95 speed more than double his speed. He sprints over to his ship, wounded and takes off.
You got them updates out quick, good hustle.
Episode 419 Chopper's in Torino Kingdom the entire episode, geographically their's a forest, A stone Village carved in the side of a cliff, but in Chopper's final scene before it switches to Sanji. Is him looking up at the MASSIVE TREE. If you want to talk about the picture and the anime comparing those rocks to that tree, those rocks must be boulders compared to... a boat, a person who's only 6ft tall, or the giant birds that inhabit the island. For an incline to be that steep that from 8ft I miss your legs must be like a 50 degree hill. And if you even tried to say you jumped off a cliff to your boat I'd have a big issue with that too. But besides the point... you said it yourself you still got shot.
If you have reason to believe that I do not belong in torino I have reason to tell you otherwise. I was headed their to follow through with my plan before you even raided. Now I'm just killing 2 birds with 1 stone.
Thaddeus is walking, then not moving, what technique,cybernetics,or item allows you to gauge the speed of someone walking capability. I could have been crip walking up to you and you still wouldn't be able to know how fast I could milly rock. I believe you'd need some sort of Technique to be able to do that.
Lastly I quote you, you don't quote me. I want you do see this. Not even the post with the screen shot you quote me. That seems like some schemey sht considering you know you're debating against me, that seems like some schemey s**t to be up until 1:21 am Gaia Time in the first debate thread on the 4th-5th, post those updates AFTER the debate thread had been up. What do you mean It's not valid when in my first post I threatened you, so you knew the fight was coming. That seems like some schemey sht to go missing the remainder of the day, then be on discord chatting it up with no explanation as to why. Not even an I'm busy, and then Naomi have screenshots of you again at a later time.
AND Note! After my post no one was free to enter the area, because Ave was in the water. By blocking off the island hasn't he created 2 fights. Ask me if I'm going out into the water to fight him. NO I'm saying on Torino just like I planned, If anything now I'll have to go to another location. Can the marines get on the Island to arrest Ben without going through Ave? No, can they fight Thaddeus from out to sea, no. So how is this debate thread anymore valid then the last?
Ugh, I didn't want to make it this long but I gotta say what I gotta say.
I am the judge and the jury. My word is law. Disputes are null. Do not message me. Do not question me. Let's begin. We'll start with the Luka, Vittoria, Kra-Khen scenario.
Quote:
Leaning down and taking a large leap off the ground, into the air and then diving into the water nearby he began to swim around the side of the island to get back to where he had first met the other person. After all, the man promised that he would get Krah-Khen a boat that he could eat. As such he and Krah-Khen had to meet up again somewhere. He assumed it would be where they were.
So Krah-Khen leaves the island and goes back out to sea. This is the most important detail, as it is assumed that he knew of the man attacking his comrade, but before all this he'd already left the island. Distance was not claimed, so for the sake of Ave, he could be anywhere within range or out of range of what was going on. In this case, I'll say out BECAUSE, no one here can dictate his range in this scenario but him. Neither Luka nor Victoria was on the island and by the time Boone had arrive, Krah-Khen had already left to patrol which is in his next post.
Quote:
Krah-Khen would make it around the area he had met the somewhat large yet still small man at. 1. However once again there was another boat there. This time it seemed someone else was here as well. He figured by this time someone might end up coming to try and stop them from the outside. 2. However Krah-Khen would have a surprise for any other boats, that would be coming towards the island. He remained at sea, ready to take up the mantle of cutting off anyone who dared tried to make their way towards the island his current ally was on. As he was well aware, not a lot of people were able to swim the way he was able to, as long as there wasn't a fishman on a boat coming for the island then this was simply the most effective answer to stopping anyone from heading to the island. Krah-Khen was ready for everything, and from this point no one would be making it to this island anytime soon. At least not until his ally, the man in the large clothing that promised to buy him a boat to eat made it out of and off the tree island.
Ave notes in his post that there is somebody there with Ben, but it was a boat. Just a boat. Because of the way Edo posted, arriving not before the raid was finished but during, Ave accepted that action and continued on with his business You cannot tell him he's wrong for doing this. You cannot say your character did this because of this. In the characters first couple posts, if anyone read anything else, it's clear he has an obsession with boats. Eating boats. Destroying boats. It's in this characters nature to do just that, so him assaulting Luka's and Victoria's boats is completely logical. The proof is in multiple posts Ave has written for the character. Now, let's get to the nitty gritty. .
Quote:
The call for aid which had come in to the base relayed that the enemy appeared to have the assistance of some kind of sea monster at their disposal. A basic strategy with such a beast would be to position it in the sea so that it was blocking the landing point for the raid. Unfortunately with such a shoddy ship as hers and a body unable to swim, Vittoria had rationalized that such an approach would be far too risky to her own safety. Something she was not willing to compromise for random strangers. While her new strategy would delay their arrival by several minutes they could use the island as a natural smoke screen to obscure their approach and then hoof it the rest of the way to the village. Having conveyed this information to Luka during their trip the two of them had worked with assistance from the information department back at base to maneuver around to the opposite side of the island from the raid before moving towards it in their small lone man boats. Given the low profile of the ships it would have been quite difficult if not impossible to spot their approach. Thus they'd be able to slip into the island without being noticed.
A sea monster attacking is a good enough reason to alter ones path of entrance into the island, but this particular one has all rights to go about patrolling. In Naomi's post, as well as Ryu's following after, both of you attempt to place yourselves away from the area Ave is keeping watch over. That in itself comes down to RP itself, nothing more. Before you two even arrived, Ave was keeping eye over the island for JUST this thing. It makes sense, complete sense, that he'd be under water during the affair - you cannot CONTROL his character to say he wasn't when he clearly dove into the water in one post, taking him under, and has yet to resurface besides bits and pieces of him. As for this whole timing bit, time is almost completely irrelevant in RP except for combat simply because the span of time actions can take place. A good example is the fight in Lyneel, as while Johnny and Luka finished their fight relatively quickly, the rest of Johnny's crew is STILL there, dealing with the marines. Time is so subjective outside of combat that anyone can say anything and it could be true, BUT, what you do have to follow is the string of events that occur. Which is, the raid, the alarm, then your arrival. Between these events, there's Boone arriving then engaging Ben, then Krah-Khen going out to sea. You cannot say you came so far after that he'd be doing one thing instead of another or control his character in such a way that he wouldn't be there anymore. I completely disagree. That's power play.
There is no folly in this system either. Marines coming in a flock of 4 for 2 pirates and you're saying they can't post after they finish the raid? However they go about preparing their leave should be and will be completely up to them. Not only, in this situation, would they be out-manned, but they also have to figure out their own way of escape or prepare for combat.
Also. for future reference, do not bring anything from discord into here. I go strictly by what's been written in these threads. Not by petty squabbles there. As a mod, I've learned my lesson of trusting what someone says on discord, VS the actions that take place in RP. I digress, that's irrelevant. Let me continue.
To be honest, you should've looked at this from a different stand point. There's a sea monster. I'm a fruit user. I gotta get to this island. Maybe I SHOULDN'T respond to this raid. That was fine, but now that the issue of the sea is prominent, it seems things have changed quite a bit.
Now then, let me bring up Ryu's post, which has the strongest Metagame out of the two arrivals.
Quote:
Neither woman could swim either (though neither knew that about the other) so the risk at sea was even greater for them both. Instead the plan of attack was to land opposite where the guard dog was expected to be and to cover any remaining distance on land.
So, in your own post, you wrote that you both, because you were following Vittoria, expected this monster to be here. That still doesn't mean it's true and Ave still has the ability to respond as he pleases. The mishap here is that, both you and Naomi, try to place him in a location when he never once said he was there. Yes, it was generalized, but he still has control over where his character is once placement is overall chosen. Further, like I keep stating, Ave was already in the water, already looking for boats, already poised to attack. No matter the span of time you try to place between these actions, he has every right to fill them as he pleases. In this case, he chose to stop you two coming to the island.
TLDR; Ave has all rights to attack these ships because of prior placement alone. As for Boone and Ben, I'll make a different post for you two in a moment. In that post, I'll state everyone's actions from that point onward.
Naomi Tenkou
Avedis Angelus
Ryunsokue Ryusei
Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2017 11:50 am
Dcme
PonderingPenguin
One more thing!
In my first post entering Torino Kingdom, I shot at Ben's boat dealing 65 damage to it. In this post in our previous debate that his ship is normal grade. However reading this the guild basics tell me that all of the starter weapons are cheap grade. Does that apply to the starting lone man boat? If so doesn't that mean he's boat is decommissioned?
Um for items you don't deal damage them you break them or you don't. You also need a technique to break items so even if it was cheap grade simply shooting it won't break it. (Ask a mod I have constantly heard them say you need a item breaking technique) Also you fail to realize Cameron was on his way too and actually reached us. And I haven't quoted anyone in my posts. Stop trying to make things into what they aren't.
Reply
