Hi there everyone from the guild! As you all have probably heard, Gaia recently decided to bring back gold generators after 5 days of having them removed. These new gold generators have been described to be "modified" from the old ones and also will appear less often. However, that said, gold generators still exist on Gaia, and as long as they do, they will remain problematic.
Now, I am not here to address the problem of gold generators necessarily, however, I would like to discuss a huge concern I have regarding the relationship between the site and the users. As some of you may know, one of the largest reasons I stay on Gaia these days is to write feedback to Gaia (in hopes) to improve the site for users of the future. I don't intend to stay on Gaia forever, and I have lost a substantial amount of interest here. Instead, I want to try my best to ensure that users don't get manipulated by Gaia's schemes because there's nothing I hate more than Gaia subliminally scamming using various techniques.
During the 5 days of Gaia's gold generator removal period, I noticed that a lot of users were opening their wallets back up to Gaia, or at least suggesting they might if GGs disappeared indefinitely. I also noticed threads today saying that certain users' wallets will remained shut unless Gaia removes gold generators indefinitely. Though possibly controversial, I believe that taunting/threatening Gaia with money is ineffective and problematic, and here's why:
Firstly, let's look at the problem with taunting Gaia with money. The whole premise of the situation is horrendously off. Do any of you think it is right to throw money at Gaia when they stop doing something bad? Would you pat your friend's back if they promised to not stab someone? That's essentially how I see it. Pampering Gaia with cash is not a great idea just like it is not good to lure a shark with shark bait because then you have to deal with... a shark. We all know Gaia is money-hungry, but if this hasn't proven ineffectiveness, then I don't know what has.
Now let's look at the problem with threatening Gaia with money. Once again, the whole backing to this situation is very wrong. The general voice of the users being angry has been ignored time and time again. Remember the offensive survey? Remember when Gaia started PM announcements? All of that anger in the SF (and other forums) went completely ignored. Gaia simply waited until enough users died off with fighting them. Not to mention, a lot of users (not all of course) caved into buying GC at least supported Gaia's GC releases despite not buying GC. Realistically, we're all here to have fun and not throw pitchforks at the marketing team. These sort of money threats will likely be ineffective too though. Sadly, there will still be users who spend money on this site regardless. The LQIs on the MP show just how well certain items sell. Gaia still makes thousands a day on Gaia. Tomorrow will likely be no different.
So what's the solution? Firstly, here's what I personally believe needs to happen:
Stay affirmative on our goals - I mentioned this in a thread a few days ago, but I still believe it to be necessary. We still need to voice our opinions as loudly and clearly as we can. Have an opinion about gold generators, Gaia's management, inflation, etc...? Voice your opinion and voice it frequently!
Don't settle for compromises - This one is fundamental. We shouldn't have to take compromises from Gaia. I don't want there to be less gold generators... I want there to be zero gold generators. Let's be clear that a compromise at this point is only a bandage solution.
Remain skeptical - I hate to say it, but remaining skeptical is the best way to prevent having roller coaster emotions regarding Gaia's management. If you think something Gaia does is too good to be true or has an ulterior motive, then question it! I'm not promoting irrationalism now, however, we have a year of Gaia to reflect on and we know their behaviours now. Let's all think logically and assume the most probable reasoning and outcomes to everything Gaia officially does and says.
Remain positive - This might seem counterintuitive to the last point, but I want to emphasize that being skeptical and being positive are not antonyms. Either way, we should be positive and not assume Gaia is lost forever. Though it feels like it, hopefully we can all stay strong, unite our opinions, and finally be heard and accounted for. We want gold generators gone. We want more site updates. We want higher quality items. We want staff communication. Express this! Share your ideas, and be bold about it!
As a final note, I want to clarify that this post is not implying anyone in this guild has bought GC or hasn't. I also want to emphasize that many of you still fight Gaia's greed every day, and many of you were probably as skeptical if not more than I was. I wrote this post as if I was talking to all users who spent GC during that 5 day period and felt duped, however, I know many of us do not fit in that category. However, I think we all need to at least discuss the issue here and voice our opinions and concerns.
Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 10:31 pm
A couple of us guild staff members purchased to show our support this past week, Darius and I as far as I know. emo I did it WITH the knowledge that they would probably return eventually. I just wanted to let them know that this is what we want and support, as feeble as it might have been. Like I said, it was a gamble and I won't have regrets trying to encourage Gaia down the right path. Everything I bought with GC this week is being used towards good for the Gaia community. I've long ago abandoned questing or caring about items or gold.
But, after this week I see your picture much clearer. I'm very dissapointed in the fact that it couldn't go AT LEAST two weeks. This whole week of user response and feedback HAD to happen though. It was the only chance we have had since the beginning of this year. If it didn't happen we wouldnt have anything to use as comparison/ammo in the future. This really is a revolution and nothing is going to change for our website unless something drastic happens.
I say boycott the MP entirely, cut off those that purchase and sell gold gens AND items. Dont buy, dont sell, a complete freeze by the community of supporters. Oh if only the Gaia community could make it happen..... It really is a hard task but it could be done to make the point clear. I'm sure many would argue that "we re not loyal" and "don't truly support Gaia" of that "we would be killing Gaia" but far from the truth. If they intend to keep in business then they will adapt, and quickly. If they don't intend to keep in business then, sadly, we would hasten the process and finish the suffering for all of us emo
I'm just rambling in dissapointment right now, some one slap me if I'm wrong....
A couple of us guild staff members purchased to show our support this past week, Darius and I as far as I know. emo I did it WITH the knowledge that they would probably return eventually. I just wanted to let them know that this is what we want and support, as feeble as it might have been. Like I said, it was a gamble and I won't have regrets trying to encourage Gaia down the right path. Everything I bought with GC this week is being used towards good for the Gaia community. I've long ago abandoned questing or caring about items or gold.
But, after this week I see your picture much clearer. I'm very dissapointed in the fact that it couldn't go AT LEAST two weeks. This whole week of user response and feedback HAD to happen though. It was the only chance we have had since the beginning of this year. If it didn't happen we wouldnt have anything to use as comparison/ammo in the future. This really is a revolution and nothing is going to change for our website unless something drastic happens.
I say boycott the MP entirely, cut off those that purchase and sell gold gens AND items. Dont buy, dont sell, a complete freeze by the community of supporters. Oh if only the Gaia community could make it happen..... It really is a hard task but it could be done to make the point clear. I'm sure many would argue that "we re not loyal" and "don't truly support Gaia" of that "we would be killing Gaia" but far from the truth. If they intend to keep in business then they will adapt, and quickly. If they don't intend to keep in business then, sadly, we would hasten the process and finish the suffering for all of us emo
I'm just rambling in dissapointment right now, some one slap me if I'm wrong....
You see, what bothers me more than anything is that you two had really good intentions the last 5 days and Gaia essentially slapped you in the face sad. It annoys me to no end how Gaia seems to do this over and over again, and not only with gold generators. It happen on so many levels...
You are right though. Maybe some good did come out of this fiasco as it seemed to really be our only chance to have been heard in the last year. We still don't know how effective the last few days will be... only the future will tell. Anyways, the MP cuff-off is a very interesting idea. Sadly though, it might give the wrong message about our cause. Boycotting gold generators is our top priority, but ultimately we should be boycotting management. This might sound strange, but I think focusing on the gold generator fiasco right now might have us running in circles like before - that is, not getting anywhere. I think we need to update our focus to be solely on upper management. Gold generators and inflation is a large portion of what aggravates us, but I think a new approach on focusing on everything as opposed to just our biggest goal might change some other users' perspectives. Might be daunting at first, but who knows, it might pay off o: ?
Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 7:41 am
Yeah, I did purchase. As a sign of goodwill to Gaia Interactive, and also because I wanted to give gifts for the event. I do feel like my goodwill was shunned, but I know all I can do is go back to what I was doing prior to Gold Gens disappearing: Educating the userbase on how we are being manipulated by the higher ups into thinking that Gold Gens are the only way.
I believe what they did was either for publicity for sponsors. Or their testing of whether profits would dwindle was so unbelievably strict that they were planning to inevitably blame the users for the return of gold generators. Either way, I don't have a shred of trust for any of the staff. Admin or higher of course.
A couple of us guild staff members purchased to show our support this past week, Darius and I as far as I know. emo I did it WITH the knowledge that they would probably return eventually. I just wanted to let them know that this is what we want and support, as feeble as it might have been. Like I said, it was a gamble and I won't have regrets trying to encourage Gaia down the right path. Everything I bought with GC this week is being used towards good for the Gaia community. I've long ago abandoned questing or caring about items or gold.
But, after this week I see your picture much clearer. I'm very dissapointed in the fact that it couldn't go AT LEAST two weeks. This whole week of user response and feedback HAD to happen though. It was the only chance we have had since the beginning of this year. If it didn't happen we wouldnt have anything to use as comparison/ammo in the future. This really is a revolution and nothing is going to change for our website unless something drastic happens.
I say boycott the MP entirely, cut off those that purchase and sell gold gens AND items. Dont buy, dont sell, a complete freeze by the community of supporters. Oh if only the Gaia community could make it happen..... It really is a hard task but it could be done to make the point clear. I'm sure many would argue that "we re not loyal" and "don't truly support Gaia" of that "we would be killing Gaia" but far from the truth. If they intend to keep in business then they will adapt, and quickly. If they don't intend to keep in business then, sadly, we would hasten the process and finish the suffering for all of us emo
I'm just rambling in dissapointment right now, some one slap me if I'm wrong....
You see, what bothers me more than anything is that you two had really good intentions the last 5 days and Gaia essentially slapped you in the face sad. It annoys me to no end how Gaia seems to do this over and over again, and not only with gold generators. It happen on so many levels...
You are right though. Maybe some good did come out of this fiasco as it seemed to really be our only chance to have been heard in the last year. We still don't know how effective the last few days will be... only the future will tell. Anyways, the MP cuff-off is a very interesting idea. Sadly though, it might give the wrong message about our cause. Boycotting gold generators is our top priority, but ultimately we should be boycotting management. This might sound strange, but I think focusing on the gold generator fiasco right now might have us running in circles like before - that is, not getting anywhere. I think we need to update our focus to be solely on upper management. Gold generators and inflation is a large portion of what aggravates us, but I think a new approach on focusing on everything as opposed to just our biggest goal might change some other users' perspectives. Might be daunting at first, but who knows, it might pay off o: ?
How do you propose to boycott management? Are we talking about Zero Narumi and Sisky as examples, or are we talking about higher up, names we can't really use freely? I suppose we could call him B-skie....
You must have some half baked idea rattling around in there, Im guessing...
But boycotting the MP all together could be effective but really hard to do, given that most people cannot separate themselves from their precious virtual items confused
Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 4:44 pm
Pwnder
Zandykins
Pwnder
A couple of us guild staff members purchased to show our support this past week, Darius and I as far as I know. emo I did it WITH the knowledge that they would probably return eventually. I just wanted to let them know that this is what we want and support, as feeble as it might have been. Like I said, it was a gamble and I won't have regrets trying to encourage Gaia down the right path. Everything I bought with GC this week is being used towards good for the Gaia community. I've long ago abandoned questing or caring about items or gold.
But, after this week I see your picture much clearer. I'm very dissapointed in the fact that it couldn't go AT LEAST two weeks. This whole week of user response and feedback HAD to happen though. It was the only chance we have had since the beginning of this year. If it didn't happen we wouldnt have anything to use as comparison/ammo in the future. This really is a revolution and nothing is going to change for our website unless something drastic happens.
I say boycott the MP entirely, cut off those that purchase and sell gold gens AND items. Dont buy, dont sell, a complete freeze by the community of supporters. Oh if only the Gaia community could make it happen..... It really is a hard task but it could be done to make the point clear. I'm sure many would argue that "we re not loyal" and "don't truly support Gaia" of that "we would be killing Gaia" but far from the truth. If they intend to keep in business then they will adapt, and quickly. If they don't intend to keep in business then, sadly, we would hasten the process and finish the suffering for all of us emo
I'm just rambling in dissapointment right now, some one slap me if I'm wrong....
You see, what bothers me more than anything is that you two had really good intentions the last 5 days and Gaia essentially slapped you in the face sad. It annoys me to no end how Gaia seems to do this over and over again, and not only with gold generators. It happen on so many levels...
You are right though. Maybe some good did come out of this fiasco as it seemed to really be our only chance to have been heard in the last year. We still don't know how effective the last few days will be... only the future will tell. Anyways, the MP cuff-off is a very interesting idea. Sadly though, it might give the wrong message about our cause. Boycotting gold generators is our top priority, but ultimately we should be boycotting management. This might sound strange, but I think focusing on the gold generator fiasco right now might have us running in circles like before - that is, not getting anywhere. I think we need to update our focus to be solely on upper management. Gold generators and inflation is a large portion of what aggravates us, but I think a new approach on focusing on everything as opposed to just our biggest goal might change some other users' perspectives. Might be daunting at first, but who knows, it might pay off o: ?
How do you propose to boycott management? Are we talking about Zero Narumi and Sisky as examples, or are we talking about higher up, names we can't really use freely? I suppose we could call him B-skie....
You must have some half baked idea rattling around in there, Im guessing...
But boycotting the MP all together could be effective but really hard to do, given that most people cannot separate themselves from their precious virtual items confused
Well unfortunately, Zero, Narumi, and Sisky are likely going to get caught in this tailspin whether they are at fault or not. Our real target could be people who we don't even know exist and Zero, Narumi, Sisky, etc... could just be following their orders. Either way though, I think the best way to boycott management would be to not only stop spending GC, but to also not succumb to compromises. I'm almost certain Gaia will do something in the coming days that a large portion of users will find admirable. I think it would be good if we brought up a lot of the "forgotten issues" that have taken the back burner since inflation and GGs took the spotlight. Ultimately, pointing out Gaia's flaws and being diligent in demanding Gaia respond to them is one method of boycotting management. Gaia has been pretty much successive in shoving all criticism under the rug except for GGs, so maybe if enough people remember the other crap Gaia has pulled, Gaia will finally have to listen given enough drive behind the issues.
I want to clarify though that boycotting the MP could be effective, albiet like you said, the task at hand is too grand to make a significant dent even if the entirety of the guild participated. It's kind of like the Walkout. An admirable effort for change but sadly, there wasn't even much of a budge on Gaia's behalf.
Gaia Interactive can try to compromise all they want. A gold Generator is a gold generator. And they've only motivated me further to keep my thread up. They're still manipulating people into buying gold after all. There will be no compromise. Either they leave, or the fire continues to burn.
Oh yes before I forget, they like to brush those "Forgotten Issues" under the rug and pretend they never existed as well. The best example: Flynn's Booty FAQ. They deleted it because they knew they were lying by creating it. And now every time I mention it to a staff member they play stupid.
I say this, if you see something you feel they'll delete then screenshot it. They're going to pretend they're flawless otherwise after deleting it. I've already shown them through several occasions that they aren't with my screens.
Another way to boycott management is to effectively remind the users why they are a little too immature. Many of the announcements of the past, particularly Flynn with her "IMBUTS" catchphrase was a direct mockery of SF posters. Read the announcement, you'll see.
Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 5:22 pm
I've already started several topics that cover reminders of things they've done in the past year somewhere else. I've tried to cover everything that came off the top of my head. One day i'll have it finished and ready for public viewing. I don't want them to sweep their mess under the rug to be forgotten and I want people to see it so they know the true depth of Gaia's shenannigans and why people are upset and continue to remain so. Can't let Gaia forget either stare
If the IMBUTS reference really is a mockery of SF posters then I'll have to do my research on that one and add it to my list of topics. I'm sure there are several more that I have neglected or don't know about. The five day GG break is a new one. This list of Gaia stupidity/backstabbing and disrespect keeps stacking higher and higher. Eventually it has to fall back down on them, it needs to. So I'm all for it.
I'm also feed up with their sleezy tactics. I'm about to introduced a video contest.
Using parody of brain on drugs/smoke guy commercial where dopamine IS bad.
Also I already make girl from brain on drugs commercial and planning to enter her in display avi arena.
The avi is cheap(except for background I need for the display) That's my idea. I'm sticking to it!
Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 11:47 pm
Darius Runan
I say this, if you see something you feel they'll delete then screenshot it. They're going to pretend they're flawless otherwise after deleting it. I've already shown them through several occasions that they aren't with my screens.
Or use Archive.Today to save a copy of the page. Just to make sure that nobody would accuse you of faking the screenshot.
Alexius08
Destitute Millionaire
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Kangit Crew
High-functioning Shapeshifter
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Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 1:59 am
Darius Runan
Gaia Interactive can try to compromise all they want. A gold Generator is a gold generator. And they've only motivated me further to keep my thread up. They're still manipulating people into buying gold after all. There will be no compromise. Either they leave, or the fire continues to burn.
Oh yes before I forget, they like to brush those "Forgotten Issues" under the rug and pretend they never existed as well. The best example: Flynn's Booty FAQ. They deleted it because they knew they were lying by creating it. And now every time I mention it to a staff member they play stupid.
I say this, if you see something you feel they'll delete then screenshot it. They're going to pretend they're flawless otherwise after deleting it. I've already shown them through several occasions that they aren't with my screens.
Another way to boycott management is to effectively remind the users why they are a little too immature. Many of the announcements of the past, particularly Flynn with her "IMBUTS" catchphrase was a direct mockery of SF posters. Read the announcement, you'll see.
I'm not sure if you were looking for it, but I've had a copy of the Flynn's Booty FAQ on my anti-gold generator petition for a while now (I think I found the backup copy on Gaiapedia):
Flynn's Booty Mini-FAQ
We thought you might have some questions about the new Flynn's Booty item, so we wanted to make a Mini-FAQ with some answers we think will be helpful!
What is the range of gold amounts that one can win from the Flynn's Booty item?
The Flynn's Booty treasure chest will randomly grant between 50,000 Gaia gold and 100,000,000 Gaia gold to people that use the item! In short, you can win between 50,000 - 100,000,000 Gaia gold if you play!
How long will the Flynn's Booty treasure chest item be available for purchase in the Cash Shop?
This item will be available from August 22, 2013 until end of day August 26, 2013. After that time, Flynn's ship will fly away along with the item!
Have you considered how this item and gold grant will affect the Gaia economy?!?
We knew you'd ask this, and actually yes, we did! We had several people trained in statistics and economic systems analyze the potential gold output of the item, and the most likely effect it will have on the overall Gaia economy long-term.
Compared to other gold granting features, the Flynn's Booty item is not expected to have a negative impact on the overall economy in the long-term. Might there be a temporary spike in inflation in marketplace values? Yes, this could happen, but given the limited time offer of the item and the fact the gold source is finite, it is not predicted to have any long-term negative effect on the economy.
We hope the fact that we did investigate this issue before releasing the item is comforting to any of you who might have concerns!
emotion_facepalm
Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2014 4:48 am
Michelle Chiba
I'm also feed up with their sleezy tactics. I'm about to introduced a video contest.
Using parody of brain on drugs/smoke guy commercial where dopamine IS bad.
Also I already make girl from brain on drugs commercial and planning to enter her in display avi arena.
The avi is cheap(except for background I need for the display) That's my idea. I'm sticking to it!
Good luck! >.<
My personal opinion was that since boycotting GC didn't seem to have much of an impact on HQ's treatment of the site, maybe doing the opposite would send the message. crying ... Yeah that paper Last Trickster Prince shared about revolutions that said you can't compromise with the enemy was right. I don't feel duped because it was never an explicit promise that I was paying for the removal of gold gens, but it is a let-down because I thought it would work.
The Gaia-User-Money Problem, as you call it, is a silly attempt and can't become a long-term alternative to gold gen sales I agree, but we wouldn't have known this approach wouldn't work if we hadn't tried it. And now at least some more users would wisen up to Gaia's schemes. I say it was worth the try.
