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 Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 2:16 pm
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Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 4:21 pm
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freelance lover So this post is largely fueled by my rage at congress trying to cut funding to Planned Parenthood, but for everyone's sake I'll avoid posting my personal beliefs until I'm more calm xD
Why should we avoid those? Because, let's face it, the people supporting the movement are obviously misguided anti abortion people who actually have just as much to lose as Pro Lifers, because Planned Parenthood provides help with adoption, finding surrugates, general family planning, and other things that actually help REDUCE abortion rates in this country. But nobody thinks about that.
Planned Parenthood has helped plenty of my friends (and myself) with low cost, effective Birth Control. Guess what is less likely to happen to those who utilize those services? Yeah, no abortion for them. That's why they shouldn't drop the funding like they did. It actually goes AGAINST what pro life people want.
Quote: What's the role and purpose of sex? Just between man and wife? Between two married partners? One night stands are awesome? For pleasure or procreation?
Sex is great. I'd be the first to say it, but millions have beaten me to the punch. The assumption, of course, in the "No Sex Until Marriage" rule is that Marriage is, and has always been, the same.
“But since there is so much immorality, each man should have his own wife, and each woman her own husband."-Corinthians 7 2
The problem is, however, not with the no sex part, but Marriage. Marriage was not something that had to be witnessed by a Priest until 125 AD, and during that and before that period, Marriage was more legal than romantic, and arranged marriages between two people who had never met were common place. Women were groomed to be brides, simple as that.
I do not think that the historical context makes the rule invalid, just the circumstances are not quite as clear cut. Here I am, in a committed relationship that I've been in for some time. I am with her and only her. Though our relationship may end before marriage, neither of us is sleeping around with anyone else, nor should we.
The Bible does condemn sex for pleasure as sexual immorality that I know of....
Quote: submissive or can we wear the pants?
I certainly hope women are allowed to play the dominant role or my life would get pretty dull.
Quote: Birth control? Yay or nay?
Simply did not exist. Im sure some rudimentary form of abortion known as "Punching the heck out of a womb" existed, but their is no context to make a decision.
Quote: Do we have the right or calling to place our own sexual beliefs and morals on other people?
I do, because I'm awesome like that.
To answer your question for real, well, it's more complex. Because that goes with the idea of absolute and relative morality, and laws vs. ethics.
Simply put, we cannot make laws or rulings based off our religious beliefs. However, our religious beliefs are often in sync rules that aren't just going to win favor upstairs, but actually better for all people all around. Thou Shalt Not Kill, for example, isn't just good for God, it's good for everyone who does not want to die.
Certain sexual activities, like say, ***** or Beastiality, are harmful not only in a religious sense, but in a real physical/mental way. And while having multiple sexual partners might sound like it's just between you and other people, you reduce the risks of pregnancy, disease, and even simple things like hurting people's egos. |
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Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 6:11 pm
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I was mainly avoiding posting my opinion because I knew it would become rant-y. I personally visit PPH regularly to get my annual check ups, my birth control, and they recently helped me out with a really "fun" (non-STD) infection. I go there with the blessing of both my parents because it's cheap and they support the good the organization does. There's just this weird misconception that the only people who go there are teenagers who want to have sex, illegal immigrants, and people who want abortions, which is obviously far from the truth. Only about 3% of their business is related to abortions, the rest in general health, cancer screenings, conception, and consoling. I'm just so INFURIATED at how stupid congress is being, especially since they're also trying to cut all funding to AmeriCorps, PBS, NPR, and plenty of other good organizations. -sigh- Maybe someday, someone will actually think.
I guess I'll go ahead and state my opinions rationally now xD
Sex is awesome, and I'm fine with it occurring between two longer term partners, regardless of orientation. In fact, I've always been of the opinion that sex really is a gift from God and is meant to be enjoyed. Otherwise, why would it feel good? I agree that the guidelines of marriage are much less clear cut than they used to be, and there's also a much higher chance marriage won't be "til death do us part" anymore. I'm very uncomfortable with casual sex or sleeping around, and I'm still kind of on the fence about polyamory. Generally I'm fine with others doing it in the sense that it's their life, but it's never something I would condone or encourage.
I, personally, always approached physical involvement very cautiously. I waited until I had found someone I felt I could possibly spend the rest of my life with, but with no pure intention of that happening. Lucky for me we're still together XP I've kind of adopted this idea of a "spiritual marriage," especially because these days so many couples put off actually tying the knot intending to marry later when finances are in order or something. I think as long as both are committed, the ceremony, dress, and cake are all trivial issues.
Clearly I'm all for women being dominant when they like to be. I agree, it makes things more interesting, I find most people don't want to be ALWAYS dominant or ALWAYS submissive in any facet of the relationship.
I'm also totally for birth control and contraception. I think the argument that you're "interfering with God's plan" is just ridiculous. Condoms break, the pill fails, accidents happen. If God really wants you to have a baby, I'm pretty sure he'll find a way to make it work.
I also agree laws cannot be made off religious morals unless it objectively benefits everyone. Not stealing everyone benefits from. Not allowing gays to marry doesn't benefit anyone, it's just "the right thing." Unless someone is clearly benefiting, I don't think it can be constitutionally considered law.
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Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 6:44 pm
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I've been locked inside that house, all the while You hold key
And I've been dying to get out, though that might be the death of me
What's the role and purpose of sex?
For a man and a woman to become of one flesh, and also for pleasure and reproduction.
Just between man and wife?
Yes...I'd almost say maybe because I saw a really well thought out argument that said those verses were misinterpreted, but I also feel like He's not in favor of it. I don't take a strong stance on the issue though.
Between two married partners?
Yes! Sex should remain in marriage.
One night stands are awesome?
One night stands = fail.
For pleasure or procreation?
Both.
What about women? Are we supposed to be submissive or can we wear the pants?
Submissive, but not like a dog or a child. There's a term God uses in Genesis "ezer kenegdo"; it doesn't really have a corresponding English word and I think it would take at least a few paragraphs to define it, but if you look it up it's a pretty good description of how a wife should act.
Birth control? Yay or nay?
Yay, so long as it's before conception.
Do we have the right or calling to place our own sexual beliefs and morals on other people?
If they're Christian and it's a biblically based belief, yes. If you're in a position of authority...probably. Otherwise, unless the law's on your side you can't force other to follow your beliefs, and it usually doesn't turn out too well even when people are able to force others to follow religious belief. There's also the whole freedom of choice thing. While I think the NT rules would help pretty much everyone, I also think you're missing the point if you force other to follow those rules.
Anything I missed?
Abortion? Pornography before marriage and after marriage? Masturbation? Does God prefer single people or married, or no preference? Why isn't divorce a bigger issue within the church? Maybe a question about how healthy a single life style with no sex would be?
And all I'm asking is for You to do what You can with me
But I can't ask You to give what You already gave
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Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 7:40 pm
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`Though thy crest be shorn and shaven, thou,' I said, `art sure no craven.
Ghastly grim and ancient raven wandering from the nightly shore -
I think virgins should be barred answering questions like these because we don't really know much about sex xD But I'll answer because of all my sexually active friends have at least educated me on the subject..
Now sex isn't and shouldn't be JUST meant for pleasure and reproduction. There will be a time in the future when you won't need it for reproduction or even pleasure. Sex can actually be used as a stress reliever, a weight loss workout, and can even help your prostate.
Sex shouldn't be between just a man and wife. Those are arbitrary distinctions and not even determined by gender. A female can be the man in a psychological sense (ie wear the pants) whereas the male can be the wife (wear the skirt). This process within sociology is called role reversal. Which is common today in our modern society and shouldn't be looked down upon because society is constantly evolving. A man can be the husband, and another man can be the wife. A woman can be a husband and another woman can be a wife. Women aren't always feminine, and men aren't always masculine. It's ignorant to think that one group is always x and the other is always y. It's a sentiment that died during the Women's Sufferage Movement in the 60's. I mean come on. neutral
As a friend has educated on marriage, marriage back in the old days wasn't the same as today. Our concept of marriage before a priest didn't come about till the 1500's. Before that people who understood they were in a committed monogamous relationship and consummated were considered to be married in the eyes of God. That is history and that's something church leaders often neglect.
One night stands...I dunno. Pass!
I already explained the pleasure and procreation thing lol
I don't think women are "supposed" to be submissive. Look at the greatest women in the history of humanity: Cleopatra, Boudicca, Catherine the Great, Queen Elizabeth I, Queen Mary of Scots, Queen Victoria, Mary Wellencroth, Marie Curie, Elizabeth Cady Stanton, Susan B Anthony, Gloria Steinham, etc, they were strong independent women who ruled their nations, but also championed for equal rights among men and women and brought great reform for us all. They didn't wear the skirt. They wore the pants! I mean hell, look at the Tale of the Golden Cow in the OT, the wives in that story didn't submit to their husbands when they asked for some gold pieces to make a cow idol. They gave their husbands one for! So no we're not meant to be totally submissive. God wouldn't give us will power, intuition, and common sense to be wasted being just submissive to our husbands. After all, behind every great man is an even GREATER woman. smile
Birth Control is a necessary evil, it also has a lot of benefits like less periods, not so painful cramps, keeps our pms regulated so we don't end up killing our husbands or boyfriends when they annoy us, and can lessen acne.
No we don't have the right to force our own sexual beliefs when it comes to morals on other people. Our beliefs are something private and should STAY in the bedroom. It doesnt matter if they're a Christian or not, we have NO right. We are NOT God. We are NOT Jesus. To even say someone is going to hell or whatever is an greater act against God to me than anything else. I have a HUGE issue with hubris or god-like arrogance. What makes you even THINK that you would KNOW more than God and even think it should even be between you, person x and God? Hate to burst everyone's bubble who thinks that being a Christian makes them holy and sinless but it's not between you, person x and God. It's between person x and God. So take your ego down a couple notches, plox. You're giving humble Christians who actually know their place like me, a bad name and a bad reputation. (not directed at you freelance smile
And of course abortion, porno, masturbation blah blah goes with choice. Divorce not being a bigger issue is because it's a mess to get into, and people would rather go after stupid things like homosexuality than divorce.
Tell me what thy lordly name is on the Night's Plutonian shore!'
Quoth the raven, `Nevermore.' |
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Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 8:11 pm
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Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 8:44 pm
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Ravynne Sidhe `Though thy crest be shorn and shaven, thou,' I said, `art sure no craven.
Ghastly grim and ancient raven wandering from the nightly shore - No we don't have the right to force our own sexual beliefs when it comes to morals on other people. Our beliefs are something private and should STAY in the bedroom. It doesnt matter if they're a Christian or not, we have NO right. We are NOT God. We are NOT Jesus. To even say someone is going to hell or whatever is an greater act against God to me than anything else. I have a HUGE issue with hubris or god-like arrogance. What makes you even THINK that you would KNOW more than God and even think it should even be between you, person x and God? Hate to burst everyone's bubble who thinks that being a Christian makes them holy and sinless but it's not between you, person x and God. It's between person x and God. So take your ego down a couple notches, plox. You're giving humble Christians who actually know their place like me, a bad name and a bad reputation. (not directed at you freelance smile
Tell me what thy lordly name is on the Night's Plutonian shore!'
Quoth the raven, `Nevermore.'
And I've been dying to get out, though that might be the death of me
That's too absolute. There's times where it is between God, person X and whoever else (anyone up for letting child molesters keep it between themselves and God? Or for a less extreme example, a married couple should be on the same wavelength on what they want to do: thus person X and Y). So you have what's within the law, but you also have laws within the Bible that non-Christians don't have to follow, but Christians should be following. I'm not saying the church should punish those who don't follow the Bible or anyone should go around damning anyone else, or anything like that, but if you point out to a fellow Christian that they're not following the Bible on something, I think you're doing the right thing. We do have the right to judge according to the Bible, according to Matthew 7:1-2. 1 “Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2 For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you" If you know someone uses the same measure as you, how can you not point out when they do something they shouldn't be doing? The flip side of the coin is if they point out you're doing wrong, you have to listen to them, and because we're all Saved by grace, we really can't lord it over others when we're acting rightly and they aren't. That's what's wrong.
And all I'm asking is for You to do what You can with me
But I can't ask You to give what You already gave |
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Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 8:54 pm
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xxEverBluexx Ravynne Sidhe `Though thy crest be shorn and shaven, thou,' I said, `art sure no craven.
Ghastly grim and ancient raven wandering from the nightly shore - No we don't have the right to force our own sexual beliefs when it comes to morals on other people. Our beliefs are something private and should STAY in the bedroom. It doesnt matter if they're a Christian or not, we have NO right. We are NOT God. We are NOT Jesus. To even say someone is going to hell or whatever is an greater act against God to me than anything else. I have a HUGE issue with hubris or god-like arrogance. What makes you even THINK that you would KNOW more than God and even think it should even be between you, person x and God? Hate to burst everyone's bubble who thinks that being a Christian makes them holy and sinless but it's not between you, person x and God. It's between person x and God. So take your ego down a couple notches, plox. You're giving humble Christians who actually know their place like me, a bad name and a bad reputation. (not directed at you freelance smile
Tell me what thy lordly name is on the Night's Plutonian shore!'
Quoth the raven, `Nevermore.'
And I've been dying to get out, though that might be the death of me
That's too absolute. There's times where it is between God, person X and whoever else (anyone up for letting child molesters keep it between themselves and God? Or for a less extreme example, a married couple should be on the same wavelength on what they want to do: thus person X and Y). So you have what's within the law, but you also have laws within the Bible that non-Christians don't have to follow, but Christians should be following. I'm not saying the church should punish those who don't follow the Bible or anyone should go around damning anyone else, or anything like that, but if you point out to a fellow Christian that they're not following the Bible on something, I think you're doing the right thing. We do have the right to judge according to the Bible, according to Matthew 7:1-2. 1 “Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2 For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you" If you know someone uses the same measure as you, how can you not point out when they do something they shouldn't be doing? The flip side of the coin is if they point out you're doing wrong, you have to listen to them, and because we're all Saved by grace, we really can't lord it over others when we're acting rightly and they aren't. That's what's wrong.
And all I'm asking is for You to do what You can with me
But I can't ask You to give what You already gave `Though thy crest be shorn and shaven, thou,' I said, `art sure no craven.
Ghastly grim and ancient raven wandering from the nightly shore -
`Though thy crest be shorn and shaven, thou,' I said, `art sure no craven.
Ghastly grim and ancient raven wandering from the nightly shore -
Actually there are NO TIMES! We as humans are NOT sinless. Jesus said himself he without sin shall cast the first stone. The only person who is sinless is Jesus. Not me, not you. Not Mr. Priest and sure as hell not Mr.Pastor. None of us have that sort of power. We don't know what it means to rightouesly judge if that's what you're alluding too, because God has a different opinion of what is righteous. I'm not God, and neither are you. So leave it between that person and God.
And that's not too "absolute" that's how it is. For it to be a relationship with God, it needs to be a private matter. If you make a relationship with God into a public spectacle then it because a religion neutral
Edit: I'm not going to point out other people's faults when they judge because that would be putting myself in the same boat as them and lowering myself to their level. Instead I'm going to raise my head high, and rise above it.
Tell me what thy lordly name is on the Night's Plutonian shore!'
Quoth the raven, `Nevermore.'
Tell me what thy lordly name is on the Night's Plutonian shore!'
Quoth the raven, `Nevermore.' |
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Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 8:58 pm
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xxEverBluexx Ravynne Sidhe `Though thy crest be shorn and shaven, thou,' I said, `art sure no craven.
Ghastly grim and ancient raven wandering from the nightly shore - No we don't have the right to force our own sexual beliefs when it comes to morals on other people. Our beliefs are something private and should STAY in the bedroom. It doesnt matter if they're a Christian or not, we have NO right. We are NOT God. We are NOT Jesus. To even say someone is going to hell or whatever is an greater act against God to me than anything else. I have a HUGE issue with hubris or god-like arrogance. What makes you even THINK that you would KNOW more than God and even think it should even be between you, person x and God? Hate to burst everyone's bubble who thinks that being a Christian makes them holy and sinless but it's not between you, person x and God. It's between person x and God. So take your ego down a couple notches, plox. You're giving humble Christians who actually know their place like me, a bad name and a bad reputation. (not directed at you freelance smile
Tell me what thy lordly name is on the Night's Plutonian shore!'
Quoth the raven, `Nevermore.'
And I've been dying to get out, though that might be the death of me
That's too absolute. There's times where it is between God, person X and whoever else (anyone up for letting child molesters keep it between themselves and God? Or for a less extreme example, a married couple should be on the same wavelength on what they want to do: thus person X and Y). So you have what's within the law, but you also have laws within the Bible that non-Christians don't have to follow, but Christians should be following. I'm not saying the church should punish those who don't follow the Bible or anyone should go around damning anyone else, or anything like that, but if you point out to a fellow Christian that they're not following the Bible on something, I think you're doing the right thing. We do have the right to judge according to the Bible, according to Matthew 7:1-2. 1 “Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2 For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you" If you know someone uses the same measure as you, how can you not point out when they do something they shouldn't be doing? The flip side of the coin is if they point out you're doing wrong, you have to listen to them, and because we're all Saved by grace, we really can't lord it over others when we're acting rightly and they aren't. That's what's wrong.
And all I'm asking is for You to do what You can with me
But I can't ask You to give what You already gave
I think in situation like child molesters intervention is obviously necessary, but that's because a law is being broken and there could be serious harm done to one party. However, if I have a friend who has casual sex, I don't feel I can or should approach them and tell them that what they're doing is bad because the Bible says x, y, or z. In my experience, telling people stuff like that makes them feel judged and resentful. Sure, if they're getting crazy I might express some concern for them and encourage them to get tested for STDs, make sure they're using contraception, and suggest they slow down, but I don't think telling them how bad their actions are is going to accomplish anything. I don't feel I have the right to judge or tell them how to live their lives.
I mean, I think the point you make about expressing these concerns to fellow Christian is valid provided you have a proper, accountability partner type relationship with them, and know their long term theology and beliefs. However, if another Christian approached me and told me I was sinful for having sex with my long term boyfriend, I would tell them to back off because I view marriage and sex in a very different way than most Christians. I think it depends on the relationship, ultimately. |
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Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 9:15 pm
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Ravynne Sidhe xxEverBluexx Ravynne Sidhe `Though thy crest be shorn and shaven, thou,' I said, `art sure no craven.
Ghastly grim and ancient raven wandering from the nightly shore - No we don't have the right to force our own sexual beliefs when it comes to morals on other people. Our beliefs are something private and should STAY in the bedroom. It doesnt matter if they're a Christian or not, we have NO right. We are NOT God. We are NOT Jesus. To even say someone is going to hell or whatever is an greater act against God to me than anything else. I have a HUGE issue with hubris or god-like arrogance. What makes you even THINK that you would KNOW more than God and even think it should even be between you, person x and God? Hate to burst everyone's bubble who thinks that being a Christian makes them holy and sinless but it's not between you, person x and God. It's between person x and God. So take your ego down a couple notches, plox. You're giving humble Christians who actually know their place like me, a bad name and a bad reputation. (not directed at you freelance smile
Tell me what thy lordly name is on the Night's Plutonian shore!'
Quoth the raven, `Nevermore.'
And I've been dying to get out, though that might be the death of me
That's too absolute. There's times where it is between God, person X and whoever else (anyone up for letting child molesters keep it between themselves and God? Or for a less extreme example, a married couple should be on the same wavelength on what they want to do: thus person X and Y). So you have what's within the law, but you also have laws within the Bible that non-Christians don't have to follow, but Christians should be following. I'm not saying the church should punish those who don't follow the Bible or anyone should go around damning anyone else, or anything like that, but if you point out to a fellow Christian that they're not following the Bible on something, I think you're doing the right thing. We do have the right to judge according to the Bible, according to Matthew 7:1-2. 1 “Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2 For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you" If you know someone uses the same measure as you, how can you not point out when they do something they shouldn't be doing? The flip side of the coin is if they point out you're doing wrong, you have to listen to them, and because we're all Saved by grace, we really can't lord it over others when we're acting rightly and they aren't. That's what's wrong.
And all I'm asking is for You to do what You can with me
But I can't ask You to give what You already gave `Though thy crest be shorn and shaven, thou,' I said, `art sure no craven.
Ghastly grim and ancient raven wandering from the nightly shore - `Though thy crest be shorn and shaven, thou,' I said, `art sure no craven.
Ghastly grim and ancient raven wandering from the nightly shore - Actually there are NO TIMES! We as humans are NOT sinless. Jesus said himself he without sin shall cast the first stone. The only person who is sinless is Jesus. Not me, not you. Not Mr. Priest and sure as hell not Mr.Pastor. None of us have that sort of power. We don't know what it means to rightouesly judge if that's what you're alluding too, because God has a different opinion of what is righteous. I'm not God, and neither are you. So leave it between that person and God.
And that's not too "absolute" that's how it is. For it to be a relationship with God, it needs to be a private matter. If you make a relationship with God into a public spectacle then it because a religion neutral
Edit: I'm not going to point out other people's faults when they judge because that would be putting myself in the same boat as them and lowering myself to their level. Instead I'm going to raise my head high, and rise above it. Tell me what thy lordly name is on the Night's Plutonian shore!'
Quoth the raven, `Nevermore.' Tell me what thy lordly name is on the Night's Plutonian shore!'
Quoth the raven, `Nevermore.'
And I've been dying to get out, though that might be the death of me
I've been locked inside that house, all the while You hold key
And I've been dying to get out, though that might be the death of me
No, I won't. We know what God says is right and wrong because of the Bible; beyond that Christians can do as they like, but you commit yourself to that standard when you become a Christian.
Your relationship with God should be private and certain other parts, but unless you become a hermit I doubt you'll live your entire life in privacy. Like it or not, people will judge (Edit: Heck, I have to worry about people judging me and I have Asperger's which means I'm far less aware of people than 90% or more of the population) and while most of it is not the right kind of judging because most of the culture is living according to what society and the media thinks of them, some of is it okay (like when you use the Bible as a standard). It is too absolute when you say it's all between person X and God. There's other important factors, like the police in the case of child molester and police. Are you saying the police shouldn't get involved?
Aren't you judging them as being lower than you're level? That's something I would say is wrong. I don't think anyone is a worse person than I am; by the same token, I don't believe anyone but Jesus is better. In your posts it also seems implied you think I and other like-minded Christians are arrogant. Aren't you judging us?
And all I'm asking is for You to do what You can with me
But I can't ask You to give what You already gave
And all I'm asking is for You to do what You can with me
But I can't ask You to give what You already gave |
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Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 9:23 pm
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freelance lover xxEverBluexx Ravynne Sidhe `Though thy crest be shorn and shaven, thou,' I said, `art sure no craven.
Ghastly grim and ancient raven wandering from the nightly shore - No we don't have the right to force our own sexual beliefs when it comes to morals on other people. Our beliefs are something private and should STAY in the bedroom. It doesnt matter if they're a Christian or not, we have NO right. We are NOT God. We are NOT Jesus. To even say someone is going to hell or whatever is an greater act against God to me than anything else. I have a HUGE issue with hubris or god-like arrogance. What makes you even THINK that you would KNOW more than God and even think it should even be between you, person x and God? Hate to burst everyone's bubble who thinks that being a Christian makes them holy and sinless but it's not between you, person x and God. It's between person x and God. So take your ego down a couple notches, plox. You're giving humble Christians who actually know their place like me, a bad name and a bad reputation. (not directed at you freelance smile
Tell me what thy lordly name is on the Night's Plutonian shore!'
Quoth the raven, `Nevermore.'
And I've been dying to get out, though that might be the death of me
That's too absolute. There's times where it is between God, person X and whoever else (anyone up for letting child molesters keep it between themselves and God? Or for a less extreme example, a married couple should be on the same wavelength on what they want to do: thus person X and Y). So you have what's within the law, but you also have laws within the Bible that non-Christians don't have to follow, but Christians should be following. I'm not saying the church should punish those who don't follow the Bible or anyone should go around damning anyone else, or anything like that, but if you point out to a fellow Christian that they're not following the Bible on something, I think you're doing the right thing. We do have the right to judge according to the Bible, according to Matthew 7:1-2. 1 “Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2 For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you" If you know someone uses the same measure as you, how can you not point out when they do something they shouldn't be doing? The flip side of the coin is if they point out you're doing wrong, you have to listen to them, and because we're all Saved by grace, we really can't lord it over others when we're acting rightly and they aren't. That's what's wrong.
And all I'm asking is for You to do what You can with me
But I can't ask You to give what You already gave
I mean, I think the point you make about expressing these concerns to fellow Christian is valid provided you have a proper, accountability partner type relationship with them, and know their long term theology and beliefs. However, if another Christian approached me and told me I was sinful for having sex with my long term boyfriend, I would tell them to back off because I view marriage and sex in a very different way than most Christians. I think it depends on the relationship, ultimately.
And I've been dying to get out, though that might be the death of me
I know what you mean, and I can't say I would tell anyone I was close to that they shouldn't be having sex before marriage (I have at least one Christian friend who's sleeps with her boyfriend, and there's no way I'd say anything to her unless she asked my opinion or God said I should). I just also don't think people live in a bubble where God and they make the only decisions about their life. Person X has factors A-Z to deal with as well. Maybe person X and God are the only two who can change person X, but beyond that factors A-Z still have an influence.
And all I'm asking is for You to do what You can with me
But I can't ask You to give what You already gave |
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Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 6:18 am
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xxEverBluexx Ravynne Sidhe xxEverBluexx Ravynne Sidhe `Though thy crest be shorn and shaven, thou,' I said, `art sure no craven.
Ghastly grim and ancient raven wandering from the nightly shore - No we don't have the right to force our own sexual beliefs when it comes to morals on other people. Our beliefs are something private and should STAY in the bedroom. It doesnt matter if they're a Christian or not, we have NO right. We are NOT God. We are NOT Jesus. To even say someone is going to hell or whatever is an greater act against God to me than anything else. I have a HUGE issue with hubris or god-like arrogance. What makes you even THINK that you would KNOW more than God and even think it should even be between you, person x and God? Hate to burst everyone's bubble who thinks that being a Christian makes them holy and sinless but it's not between you, person x and God. It's between person x and God. So take your ego down a couple notches, plox. You're giving humble Christians who actually know their place like me, a bad name and a bad reputation. (not directed at you freelance smile
Tell me what thy lordly name is on the Night's Plutonian shore!'
Quoth the raven, `Nevermore.'
And I've been dying to get out, though that might be the death of me
That's too absolute. There's times where it is between God, person X and whoever else (anyone up for letting child molesters keep it between themselves and God? Or for a less extreme example, a married couple should be on the same wavelength on what they want to do: thus person X and Y). So you have what's within the law, but you also have laws within the Bible that non-Christians don't have to follow, but Christians should be following. I'm not saying the church should punish those who don't follow the Bible or anyone should go around damning anyone else, or anything like that, but if you point out to a fellow Christian that they're not following the Bible on something, I think you're doing the right thing. We do have the right to judge according to the Bible, according to Matthew 7:1-2. 1 “Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2 For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you" If you know someone uses the same measure as you, how can you not point out when they do something they shouldn't be doing? The flip side of the coin is if they point out you're doing wrong, you have to listen to them, and because we're all Saved by grace, we really can't lord it over others when we're acting rightly and they aren't. That's what's wrong.
And all I'm asking is for You to do what You can with me
But I can't ask You to give what You already gave `Though thy crest be shorn and shaven, thou,' I said, `art sure no craven.
Ghastly grim and ancient raven wandering from the nightly shore - `Though thy crest be shorn and shaven, thou,' I said, `art sure no craven.
Ghastly grim and ancient raven wandering from the nightly shore - Actually there are NO TIMES! We as humans are NOT sinless. Jesus said himself he without sin shall cast the first stone. The only person who is sinless is Jesus. Not me, not you. Not Mr. Priest and sure as hell not Mr.Pastor. None of us have that sort of power. We don't know what it means to rightouesly judge if that's what you're alluding too, because God has a different opinion of what is righteous. I'm not God, and neither are you. So leave it between that person and God.
And that's not too "absolute" that's how it is. For it to be a relationship with God, it needs to be a private matter. If you make a relationship with God into a public spectacle then it because a religion neutral
Edit: I'm not going to point out other people's faults when they judge because that would be putting myself in the same boat as them and lowering myself to their level. Instead I'm going to raise my head high, and rise above it. Tell me what thy lordly name is on the Night's Plutonian shore!'
Quoth the raven, `Nevermore.' Tell me what thy lordly name is on the Night's Plutonian shore!'
Quoth the raven, `Nevermore.'
And I've been dying to get out, though that might be the death of me I've been locked inside that house, all the while You hold key
And I've been dying to get out, though that might be the death of me
No, I won't. We know what God says is right and wrong because of the Bible; beyond that Christians can do as they like, but you commit yourself to that standard when you become a Christian.
Your relationship with God should be private and certain other parts, but unless you become a hermit I doubt you'll live your entire life in privacy. Like it or not, people will judge (Edit: Heck, I have to worry about people judging me and I have Asperger's which means I'm far less aware of people than 90% or more of the population) and while most of it is not the right kind of judging because most of the culture is living according to what society and the media thinks of them, some of is it okay (like when you use the Bible as a standard). It is too absolute when you say it's all between person X and God. There's other important factors, like the police in the case of child molester and police. Are you saying the police shouldn't get involved?
Aren't you judging them as being lower than you're level? That's something I would say is wrong. I don't think anyone is a worse person than I am; by the same token, I don't believe anyone but Jesus is better. In your posts it also seems implied you think I and other like-minded Christians are arrogant. Aren't you judging us?
And all I'm asking is for You to do what You can with me
But I can't ask You to give what You already gave And all I'm asking is for You to do what You can with me
But I can't ask You to give what You already gave `Though thy crest be shorn and shaven, thou,' I said, `art sure no craven.
Ghastly grim and ancient raven wandering from the nightly shore -
`Though thy crest be shorn and shaven, thou,' I said, `art sure no craven.
Ghastly grim and ancient raven wandering from the nightly shore -
If you read further down Matthew it says that you should take the log out of your own eye before you examine someone's speck. Because of those verses I'm not going to sit here and point out other people's faults when I do the same thing as them. Again that further proves I'm not sinless.
And actually Jesus stood up against the Pharisees. He hated just how much they clung to their religion more than they clung to God. We should instead of picking at someone's faults just simply love our neighbor as well as our enemy. Because simply judging someone regardless if they're a Christian or not simply means we are no better than the Pharisees 2000+ years ago. If we truly live by Grace, then you should do what Jesus did, live his life. Not just accept his name and throw out the Law of Agape because we feel the need too.
The police's job is to police. That is their primary function. Our primary function is to worship God according to most Christians not get involved with other people's issues. That is God's job. It's also God's job to convert. I'll explain this in simple terms: When you judge someone you are doing God's job. When a citizen arrests a criminal you are doing the police's job. You are not God, nor are you the police. You have no right to judge others, nor do you have the right to arrest other people. God can do his job just fine without the meddling of a mortal human just like the police can do their job just fine without the meddling of a citizen.
Edit: Actually you don't have to be a hermit to keep your life private. As my dad says: Treat people like mushrooms, feed them crap and watch them grow. I don't tell people I don't trust what goes on in my life. The only people who actually know are my friends. And even then there are times I keep a tight lid on my affairs and do it quite well which is why half of my friends joke around and call me an enigma. neutral
Tell me what thy lordly name is on the Night's Plutonian shore!'
Quoth the raven, `Nevermore.'
Tell me what thy lordly name is on the Night's Plutonian shore!'
Quoth the raven, `Nevermore.' |
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Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 8:16 am
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xxEverBluexx
I know what you mean, and I can't say I would tell anyone I was close to that they shouldn't be having sex before marriage (I have at least one Christian friend who's sleeps with her boyfriend, and there's no way I'd say anything to her unless she asked my opinion or God said I should). I just also don't think people live in a bubble where God and they make the only decisions about their life. Person X has factors A-Z to deal with as well. Maybe person X and God are the only two who can change person X, but beyond that factors A-Z still have an influence.
And all I'm asking is for You to do what You can with me
But I can't ask You to give what You already gave
Okay, I can get behind that. Certainly outside friends have influence, but you're right- it comes down to the person and their relationship with God.
I think where I get uncomfortable with even accoutability partner type issues is where we see the power to abuse those priviledges. I had a friend who was close to me for a long time, and he would frequently tell me who and who I couldn't date, kiss, etc, and when I got upset with him he told me he was just trying to keep me "accountable." My first real boyfriend he put down all the time to my face, because he felt he didn't treat me well (when in reality he treated me far better than this friend ever did). When I started dating this guy after my friend broke my heart, he kept pressuring me by asking if "this was what God intended." He was dating his skanky ex at the time, and just wanted me around and undistracted in case things didn't work out. When I started dating my boyfriend, he and I had been planning to pick up the physical relationship we had ended when he started dating said ex, and routinely told me not to get involved with my boyfriend and not to kiss him. When wen did start dating and I had to break off the physical relationship we had been planning on pursuing, he got upset and spent the entire summer belittling my boyfriend and trying to seduce me. He did this all under the guise of being a good Christian friend who just wanted to help me find what God had intended for me. I believe him for a long time too, until my friends and boyfriend showed I deserved a lot more than what he was giving me.
Sorry, that was long. My point is, being Christian doesn't always give you rights to tell people how to live either. As I stated, I also don't have issues with sex before legal marriage because of my idea of spiritual marriage. The only time I've ever been uncomfortable with a friend having sex was when they were irresonsibly sleeping around or when my old roommate, who was dead set on waiting for marriage, was pressured in sex by her douchey, borderline abusive boyfriend. |
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Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 2:47 pm
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Ravynne Sidhe xxEverBluexx Ravynne Sidhe xxEverBluexx Ravynne Sidhe `Though thy crest be shorn and shaven, thou,' I said, `art sure no craven.
Ghastly grim and ancient raven wandering from the nightly shore - No we don't have the right to force our own sexual beliefs when it comes to morals on other people. Our beliefs are something private and should STAY in the bedroom. It doesnt matter if they're a Christian or not, we have NO right. We are NOT God. We are NOT Jesus. To even say someone is going to hell or whatever is an greater act against God to me than anything else. I have a HUGE issue with hubris or god-like arrogance. What makes you even THINK that you would KNOW more than God and even think it should even be between you, person x and God? Hate to burst everyone's bubble who thinks that being a Christian makes them holy and sinless but it's not between you, person x and God. It's between person x and God. So take your ego down a couple notches, plox. You're giving humble Christians who actually know their place like me, a bad name and a bad reputation. (not directed at you freelance smile
Tell me what thy lordly name is on the Night's Plutonian shore!'
Quoth the raven, `Nevermore.'
And I've been dying to get out, though that might be the death of me
That's too absolute. There's times where it is between God, person X and whoever else (anyone up for letting child molesters keep it between themselves and God? Or for a less extreme example, a married couple should be on the same wavelength on what they want to do: thus person X and Y). So you have what's within the law, but you also have laws within the Bible that non-Christians don't have to follow, but Christians should be following. I'm not saying the church should punish those who don't follow the Bible or anyone should go around damning anyone else, or anything like that, but if you point out to a fellow Christian that they're not following the Bible on something, I think you're doing the right thing. We do have the right to judge according to the Bible, according to Matthew 7:1-2. 1 “Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2 For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you" If you know someone uses the same measure as you, how can you not point out when they do something they shouldn't be doing? The flip side of the coin is if they point out you're doing wrong, you have to listen to them, and because we're all Saved by grace, we really can't lord it over others when we're acting rightly and they aren't. That's what's wrong.
And all I'm asking is for You to do what You can with me
But I can't ask You to give what You already gave `Though thy crest be shorn and shaven, thou,' I said, `art sure no craven.
Ghastly grim and ancient raven wandering from the nightly shore - `Though thy crest be shorn and shaven, thou,' I said, `art sure no craven.
Ghastly grim and ancient raven wandering from the nightly shore - Actually there are NO TIMES! We as humans are NOT sinless. Jesus said himself he without sin shall cast the first stone. The only person who is sinless is Jesus. Not me, not you. Not Mr. Priest and sure as hell not Mr.Pastor. None of us have that sort of power. We don't know what it means to rightouesly judge if that's what you're alluding too, because God has a different opinion of what is righteous. I'm not God, and neither are you. So leave it between that person and God.
And that's not too "absolute" that's how it is. For it to be a relationship with God, it needs to be a private matter. If you make a relationship with God into a public spectacle then it because a religion neutral
Edit: I'm not going to point out other people's faults when they judge because that would be putting myself in the same boat as them and lowering myself to their level. Instead I'm going to raise my head high, and rise above it. Tell me what thy lordly name is on the Night's Plutonian shore!'
Quoth the raven, `Nevermore.' Tell me what thy lordly name is on the Night's Plutonian shore!'
Quoth the raven, `Nevermore.'
And I've been dying to get out, though that might be the death of me I've been locked inside that house, all the while You hold key
And I've been dying to get out, though that might be the death of me
No, I won't. We know what God says is right and wrong because of the Bible; beyond that Christians can do as they like, but you commit yourself to that standard when you become a Christian.
Your relationship with God should be private and certain other parts, but unless you become a hermit I doubt you'll live your entire life in privacy. Like it or not, people will judge (Edit: Heck, I have to worry about people judging me and I have Asperger's which means I'm far less aware of people than 90% or more of the population) and while most of it is not the right kind of judging because most of the culture is living according to what society and the media thinks of them, some of is it okay (like when you use the Bible as a standard). It is too absolute when you say it's all between person X and God. There's other important factors, like the police in the case of child molester and police. Are you saying the police shouldn't get involved?
Aren't you judging them as being lower than you're level? That's something I would say is wrong. I don't think anyone is a worse person than I am; by the same token, I don't believe anyone but Jesus is better. In your posts it also seems implied you think I and other like-minded Christians are arrogant. Aren't you judging us?
And all I'm asking is for You to do what You can with me
But I can't ask You to give what You already gave And all I'm asking is for You to do what You can with me
But I can't ask You to give what You already gave `Though thy crest be shorn and shaven, thou,' I said, `art sure no craven.
Ghastly grim and ancient raven wandering from the nightly shore - `Though thy crest be shorn and shaven, thou,' I said, `art sure no craven.
Ghastly grim and ancient raven wandering from the nightly shore - If you read further down Matthew it says that you should take the log out of your own eye before you examine someone's speck. Because of those verses I'm not going to sit here and point out other people's faults when I do the same thing as them. Again that further proves I'm not sinless.
And actually Jesus stood up against the Pharisees. He hated just how much they clung to their religion more than they clung to God. We should instead of picking at someone's faults just simply love our neighbor as well as our enemy. Because simply judging someone regardless if they're a Christian or not simply means we are no better than the Pharisees 2000+ years ago. If we truly live by Grace, then you should do what Jesus did, live his life. Not just accept his name and throw out the Law of Agape because we feel the need too.
The police's job is to police. That is their primary function. Our primary function is to worship God according to most Christians not get involved with other people's issues. That is God's job. It's also God's job to convert. I'll explain this in simple terms: When you judge someone you are doing God's job. When a citizen arrests a criminal you are doing the police's job. You are not God, nor are you the police. You have no right to judge others, nor do you have the right to arrest other people. God can do his job just fine without the meddling of a mortal human just like the police can do their job just fine without the meddling of a citizen.
Edit: Actually you don't have to be a hermit to keep your life private. As my dad says: Treat people like mushrooms, feed them crap and watch them grow. I don't tell people I don't trust what goes on in my life. The only people who actually know are my friends. And even then there are times I keep a tight lid on my affairs and do it quite well which is why half of my friends joke around and call me an enigma. neutral Tell me what thy lordly name is on the Night's Plutonian shore!'
Quoth the raven, `Nevermore.' Tell me what thy lordly name is on the Night's Plutonian shore!'
Quoth the raven, `Nevermore.'
And I've been dying to get out, though that might be the death of me
I saw that. That doesn't mean you can't with respect point out others faults if you aren't committing those faults. Jesus pointed out when the Pharisees were hypocrites, didn't He? He wasn't all that nice about it either.
And even if you don't count Jesus because He's God, there's still Paul who had to be able to judge the state of the churches in order to tell them how to improve. There's a good deal of correction from Paul in the NT and correction comes from judgment.
Who said anything about throwing the Law of Agape? That's central to being a Christian, along with loving God. Loving others doesn't always mean being nice though. Sometimes you need to tell someone what they're doing wrong, so they can fix it. The kind of judgment I'm advocating is not one where you condemn others, but simply one where you're willing to correct them, even if they don't like it.
And Jesus did condemn the Pharisees because they were hypocrites, but He also said listen to them. "Then Jesus spoke to the multitudes and to His disciples, saying, "The scribes and the Pharisees have seated themselves in the chair of Moses; therefore all that they tell you, do and observe, but do not do according to their deeds; for they say things, and do not do them"." Matthew 23:1-4 (NASB) In other words? It's not wrong to follow the rules or correct other, unless it's something you're doing wrong. If it is something you're doing wrong, then you're a hypocrite and that's what's wrong.
So are you saying if you see someone molesting a little girl, you'll call the police and leave it at that?
Eh, your friends still know about your life then. You're still not living an entirely private existence (I'm speaking in absolutes here). Besides, people will judge you on anything from what you look like to what you say in a post. You may have parts in your life you keep private, but still anyone and everyone will still factor together what they know about you and form an opinion. Again, it's not really avoidable.
And all I'm asking is for You to do what You can with me
But I can't ask You to give what You already gave |
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Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 3:01 pm
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freelance lover xxEverBluexx
I know what you mean, and I can't say I would tell anyone I was close to that they shouldn't be having sex before marriage (I have at least one Christian friend who's sleeps with her boyfriend, and there's no way I'd say anything to her unless she asked my opinion or God said I should). I just also don't think people live in a bubble where God and they make the only decisions about their life. Person X has factors A-Z to deal with as well. Maybe person X and God are the only two who can change person X, but beyond that factors A-Z still have an influence.
And all I'm asking is for You to do what You can with me
But I can't ask You to give what You already gave
I think where I get uncomfortable with even accoutability partner type issues is where we see the power to abuse those priviledges. I had a friend who was close to me for a long time, and he would frequently tell me who and who I couldn't date, kiss, etc, and when I got upset with him he told me he was just trying to keep me "accountable." My first real boyfriend he put down all the time to my face, because he felt he didn't treat me well (when in reality he treated me far better than this friend ever did). When I started dating this guy after my friend broke my heart, he kept pressuring me by asking if "this was what God intended." He was dating his skanky ex at the time, and just wanted me around and undistracted in case things didn't work out. When I started dating my boyfriend, he and I had been planning to pick up the physical relationship we had ended when he started dating said ex, and routinely told me not to get involved with my boyfriend and not to kiss him. When wen did start dating and I had to break off the physical relationship we had been planning on pursuing, he got upset and spent the entire summer belittling my boyfriend and trying to seduce me. He did this all under the guise of being a good Christian friend who just wanted to help me find what God had intended for me. I believe him for a long time too, until my friends and boyfriend showed I deserved a lot more than what he was giving me.
Sorry, that was long. My point is, being Christian doesn't always give you rights to tell people how to live either. As I stated, I also don't have issues with sex before legal marriage because of my idea of spiritual marriage. The only time I've ever been uncomfortable with a friend having sex was when they were irresonsibly sleeping around or when my old roommate, who was dead set on waiting for marriage, was pressured in sex by her douchey, borderline abusive boyfriend.
And I've been dying to get out, though that might be the death of me
I think that's a case of a wolf in sheep's clothing. That guy doesn't sound like he's really following God.
I actually kinda think the church is going through a judgment crises. Most people aren't willing to speak when something is wrong because they think being nice=being loving, and most of those who do speak up are either new Christians who are doing it to make themselves look good, or arrogant jerks who aren't really Christians at all and are judging others for the same reason as the new Christians. We need Christians who are willing to judge and correct for the other person's benefit, and not to puff themselves up or take advantage of someone.
And all I'm asking is for You to do what You can with me
But I can't ask You to give what You already gave |
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Reply
