When the student is ready...?

[Gingerbread . Coffin]

Gather round, childrens -- it's story time. (If you don't feel like reading, just skip down to the paragraph that starts with "But".)

I was at the bookstore earlier, because the local library stinks and I can read a book there for free.

While I was there, there was a girl, also in the same section, looking at books, occassionally picking up one and flipping through the pages for a little while, then putting it back on the shelf. She picked up one of Ravenwolf's "To [Action] A [Adjective] [Noun]" books and I said, "Can I make a suggestion? Don't read that book."

"Why?"

Sorta kicked into the "it makes good material for starting a bonfire, but other than that..." shpeel, and she said she already owned "Teen Witch" and it both didn't make a whole lot of sense to her and she didn't really get much from the book.

So, I made some suggestions on some other books and authors and we got to talking, she asked me a couple of questions about me, like how long I've been reading these books, if I was in a group, what basic terms mean (like "coven" and "what's the difference between a Wiccan and a Witch") and so on and so forth.

She was sort of amazed, she'd never really met anyone who "was into this stuff and knows what they're talking about" and asked me if she could have my number, so she could call me and ask me questions about this stuff because she really wants to learn more before she does anything. It turns out, she already has my house number, because she's friends with my little brother.

Annnywhooooooo...

Towards the end of the conversation, she asked me if I could, more or less, teach her. "Well, I could point you in a couple of different directions, but I dunno how good of a teacher I'd be."

But I've been thinking. How good of a teacher/mentor would I be? At least having someone around who was a bit more experienced when I was new to all of this, I think, would've helped a smig.

If you were to, less or more, teach someone about Neo-Paganism, what would you do? What things do you think are more important to emphasize to someone whose new, but wanting to learn?

Also, how many "To [Verb] A [Adjective] [Noun]" books does Silver need to write? x__x;;  

[TeaDidikai]

Teacher- Mentor- Student- Pupil- these words have some heavy weight to me. (I am going to butcher a Hindu concept- don't smite me) The Dharma that they carry is an important one, something that should not be taken lightly- which is why the usual exchange people have with me looks like this:

"Will you Teach me?!"

~Puff of smoke that clears away to show Tea running like the Road Runner with her legs in a blur as she vanishes into the distance~

I am all for the free exchange of ideas. Big fan of it. But to be someone's teacher? It's like being someone's parent. There is a lot of thought and serious consideration that goes into making an informed decision. And not everyone is meant to take on that role.

Does that mean we cannot guide, support, aid, nurture and enlighten? Heavens no.

As to what makes a good teacher? Well, grounding and research for a start. Why not learn what it takes to be a teacher? I mean, instruction is great- but why do we assume that just because we know something we would be the best choice to explain it?

Teachers go to school to learn how to instruct. Why not make a discipline of that before one tries to combine ones desire to inform with another's desire to learn?  

[Gingerbread . Coffin]

TeaDidikai

I am all for the free exchange of ideas. Big fan of it. But to be someone's teacher? It's like being someone's parent. There is a lot of thought and serious consideration that goes into making an informed decision. And not everyone is meant to take on that role.

Does that mean we cannot guide, support, aid, nurture and enlighten? Heavens no.

What would you guide/support/nurture/enlighten them with/to?

I think of teaching in a more... casual? (is that the right word?)... way. Maybe, non-traditional. That you learn from everything and everyone, and sift through it yourself. I think that's more towards learning in general, than learning fact.

Maybe I just plan used the wrong word. xp

TeaDidikai

As to what makes a good teacher? Well, grounding and research for a start. Why not learn what it takes to be a teacher? I mean, instruction is great- but why do we assume that just because we know something we would be the best choice to explain it?

I definately think I'm not the best, at either explaining or knowing something (see, All Of My Posts).  

[TeaDidikai]

Gingerbread . Coffin

What would you guide/support/nurture/enlighten them with/to?

Depends on what the person is seeking, yes?

Quote:

I think of teaching in a more... casual? (is that the right word?)... way. Maybe, non-traditional. That you learn from everything and everyone, and sift through it yourself. I think that's more towards learning in general, than learning fact.

It's a common difference in thought.

The issue I take is that those who do not understand the weight of what it means to teach someone tend to spawn a reckless attitude towards the instruction of another. Look at Silver. She thinks she is correct in suggesting children lie to their parents about their religion. I find that irresponsible as a member of the pagan scene, as an adult who wishes to have children and be a parent, as someone on my path with my ethics.

The suggestion that magic is like a scalpel- that it can be used to aid as well as harm applies to teaching as well. It has been my experience and observation that teaching is the same, with a lackadaisical approach to "Teaching" often leading towards the latter.

Like I said, I'm a fan of free exchange of ideas. Talking, discussion and debate are the boons of thought. But to present oneself as a teacher- to take up that position and all that it entails- that's different. You take responsibility for the person you teach just like a parent takes responsibility for the children they conceive.  

[wicked_faery]

i'd focus more on the respectfullness of the craft (for lack of a better term). like not doing spells that cause harm to others & showing respect to everything around u. also i'd hit up on the basics like tarot card use & the like.  

[TeaDidikai]

wicked_faery

i'd focus more on the respectfullness of the craft (for lack of a better term). like not doing spells that cause harm to others & showing respect to everything around u. also i'd hit up on the basics like tarot card use & the like.

Except- not everyone has ethics that forbid crossing, spoiling and other such bane work.  

[wicked_faery]

...not even gonna ask what made u say that.  

[Sivirs]

wicked_faery

...not even gonna ask what made u say that.

That would be you saying that people should be taught not to harm, and her replying that not all paths want people not to curse, and some even actively encourage such learning.

For chrissakes, she quoted your own words. So, obviously, YOU saying one thing made her say the other. Can't you at least TRY to keep up?  

[TeaDidikai]

wicked_faery

...not even gonna ask what made u say that.

The Wiccan Rede is not universal.

Nothing within any of my traditions says it is an unethical thing to curse people. The assumption that because a small group of people find the practice objectionable it is to be universally taught as "wrong to do so" is absurd.  

[Pelta]

How does your prospective student know that you're going to teach her a tradition that is actually what she wants to learn? Most likely she'd follow blindly whatever you tell her, and that can be pretty damn dangerous.
And do you think you're actually ready to be a teacher? People can be very proficient in something and hopeless teachers of their subject. I'd like to relate an experience that has absolutely nothing to do with paganism.
I teach the flute for a living. I'm a music teacher. I thought this would be pretty easy when i started out because playing the flute is like breathing to me. Man was I in for a surprise. I started off teaching beginners and realised how draining teaching actually is. Students follow everything you tell them. They trust you. They expect you to know everything. Then you get to the horrible thoughts of "am i teaching them the right technique?" "What, exactly, is said student having trouble with?" "Why can you STILL NOT READ MUSIC?!?!?" And inevitably the responsibility for it all lies with the teacher. And that's a lot of responsibility, especially when it comes to someone's spiritual path. Teachers can do a lot of harm too when they don't know what they're doing. I got a student from another teacher who had taught her an entirely bogey technique that was IMPOSSIBLE to fix. Bad habits are really hard to break. Do you want to be responsible for that? I'm not saying that you're a bad teacher or don't know your stuff or anything, but I'd recommend thinking long and hard about it before you accept this student.
Another *slight* problem with teaching a minor is that you might get in huge trouble with the law and/or her parents if they find out.
Anyway, hope it all goes well for you!  

[CuAnnan]

missmagpie

How does your prospective student know that you're going to teach her a tradition that is actually what she wants to learn? Most likely she'd follow blindly whatever you tell her, and that can be pretty damn dangerous.

Ya know magpie, I am so glad I introduced you to the whole gaia thing.
Which reminds me, I really must start on that "Discerning pagans of Gaia" commendation banner whatsit.

Back to the topic at hand.

I've had two students. One was a spectacular failure (he hated discipline, didn't want to learn the basics and was very disrespectful, he ended up a convenient lokite) and one was a spectacular success (you've met her magpie at the last moot, and bluey you know who I'm talking about). Based on my experiences, I'd never do it again willingly (admittedly, I'm the humble servant of my God and Goddess so if they order it, I will do it grudgingly) because it's too tiring, demanding and a bloody pain in the hole.

There's more to whether or not you can teach, or know enough, or are smart and wise enough. You can't teach someone unless you have a good rapport with them. Do you feel a connection with this person. Do you know them? Are you sure you know what to and what not to teach them?  

[-kissME-1]

I'm much more of a point them in a good direction and send them off person myself.

As for your question about Ravenwolf how many books is she going to write? As many as it takes for the Pagan community to finally get sick of her wrong facts, christian bashing, and sneak attack your parents with your religion comments, and finally kick her in the pants.  

[Pelta]

reagun ban

missmagpie

How does your prospective student know that you're going to teach her a tradition that is actually what she wants to learn? Most likely she'd follow blindly whatever you tell her, and that can be pretty damn dangerous.

Ya know magpie, I am so glad I introduced you to the whole gaia thing.
Which reminds me, I really must start on that "Discerning pagans of Gaia" commendation banner whatsit.

*blushes*

reagun ban

Back to the topic at hand.

I've had two students. One was a spectacular failure (he hated discipline, didn't want to learn the basics and was very disrespectful, he ended up a convenient lokite) and one was a spectacular success (you've met her magpie at the last moot, and bluey you know who I'm talking about). Based on my experiences, I'd never do it again willingly (admittedly, I'm the humble servant of my God and Goddess so if they order it, I will do it grudgingly) because it's too tiring, demanding and a bloody pain in the hole.

There's more to whether or not you can teach, or know enough, or are smart and wise enough. You can't teach someone unless you have a good rapport with them. Do you feel a connection with this person. Do you know them? Are you sure you know what to and what not to teach them?

I'm not quite sure which one at the last moot was your student... I'm pretty sure it was the girl outside smoking with you after the moot (not great with names here), in which case yes i'd consider her a success. Any student who seems that independent from the teacher (in a good way) is a good thing. Unless I'm totally wrong here and not observant at all xd Quite possible considering the state I'm currently in and was in at the last moot.

Anyway, yeah i'd agree with you that to teach you also need a good connection with the student. It's a pain in the a** teaching students you hate. The one I got with the bogey technique was a real b***h - so glad I don't teach her anymore. Also, if you're teaching someone a spiritual path it's almost like inviting them into your circle/coven/mind/whathaveyou. There's a lot of trust involved there that can go awry, especially if the student ends up not being truly serious about it.

(And excuse my bad attempt at quoting if it doesn't work sweatdrop )
Edit: Wooo! It worked! xd  

[CuAnnan]

missmagpie

I'm not quite sure which one at the last moot was your student... I'm pretty sure it was the girl outside smoking with you after the moot (not great with names here), in which case yes i'd consider her a success. Any student who seems that independent from the teacher (in a good way) is a good thing. Unless I'm totally wrong here and not observant at all xd Quite possible considering the state I'm currently in and was in at the last moot.

No, I don't think she came out with me for a smoke. She was the one with red hair and the glasses. The one who commented on the Fennian cycle being less magical than the ulster cycle and drew the comparison between when they were written down first.  

[Pelta]

reagun ban

missmagpie

I'm not quite sure which one at the last moot was your student... I'm pretty sure it was the girl outside smoking with you after the moot (not great with names here), in which case yes i'd consider her a success. Any student who seems that independent from the teacher (in a good way) is a good thing. Unless I'm totally wrong here and not observant at all xd Quite possible considering the state I'm currently in and was in at the last moot.

No, I don't think she came out with me for a smoke. She was the one with red hair and the glasses. The one who commented on the Fennian cycle being less magical than the ulster cycle and drew the comparison between when they were written down first.

Ah. I think I know the girl you mean. She's definately got a good head on her shoulders. Can't remember her name for the life of me, but then again I'm not that observant. And when everyone throws their name at you at once it can be hard to remember. Or maybe that's just me...
Erm. Back to some semblance of the topic (or maybe I'm just flogging a dead horse)
Teaching can be a load of fun with the right student. If you've got someone quick and intelligent they can be loads of fun to teach. And I find you can learn a lot from teaching too. Just the act of vocalising it to a student can get your thoughts in order and help you understand things better. A good pupil can be a challenge for both the student and teacher, and both can benefit from it. So there's a good side to teaching too. Especially the reward of seeing someone really happy with what they're learning.