Things that beg the question "Why?"

[TatteredAngel]

Let me start this off by saying that I'm a syncretist and a born and bred skeptic. I like to look and use a lot of different paths, and I take everything I come across with a grain of salt. One thing I see frequently, especially in books, websites, etc. with Pagan information is that certain rules are presented with little or no explanation. With few holy texts to turn to for reference, it seems like detailed explanations of rules would be a must. Some rules and suggestions seem, to me, to just be silly, and since backing is not provided for them, I'm not inclined to take them too seriously.

So here I'll present a few of my whys, and hope other people feel free to ask others if they aren't sure about something.

1- One book I have (back home, not here at school, so I can't give you the title just now) says point blank to always work by sunlight or candle light, and that electrical light is bad for magic. I've seen other things stated or insinuated, but never with an explanation, not even "the gods are rather offended by yon electric lights." So why? For those of us in college, where candles and open flames aren't allowed, are we only supposed to do ritual/spells/etc in daylight? What problems does electric light cause, if any?

2- Ritual correspondences. It is easy to find extensive lists of herbs, colors, stones, and other things paired with what they are associated with magically. Rarely do these lists show whose traditions are being used to come up with these correspondences, or any other explanation of how they were decided. So where do thes come from, and should we trust any given list of correspondences? Should we ever create/research our own, especially if our climate easily grows many things that are not found on these lists?

Those are rather lengthy, so I'll leave it there. I just think that it's important in any spiritual endeavor to know why we are doing things a particular way, and am frustrated in many instances by the lack of explanation.  

[Midnight Ana]

First off, I'd like to say that I'm not an expert on all things pagan, but I'll go out on a limb here and say that this is one of those "ask ten pagans, get ten different answers" kind of thing.

1- In my research I have come across authors who say it is preferible to work in candle light, sun light, moon light or some kind of "natural light." I've never read anything that says not to use electrical light though.

Moon and Sun light can be used to charge objects with their engery, candles can supposedly be used in the same way.

Although, electricity is not a man made invention. People have known about electricity for years before the lightbulb. Since then electricity is a natural phenomeno, then techincally there should be nothing wrong with it when doing a ritual.

2- This next one I'm not so sure about because I don't use alot of herbs and stones simply because I don't have access to many of them. I do use colors though, and I'll give you an example as best I can. Take the color green for instant, when the author goes to list correspondences I've noticed that some differ slighty. One author may say that green corresponds to luck, money and prosperity. While another could say it corresponds to healing, luck and earth magic.

Thats my two cents, I'll just hand the torch off to one of the more experienced people here.  

[TeaDidikai]

TatteredAngel

1- One book I have (back home, not here at school, so I can't give you the title just now) says point blank to always work by sunlight or candle light, and that electrical light is bad for magic. I've seen other things stated or insinuated, but never with an explanation, not even "the gods are rather offended by yon electric lights." So why? For those of us in college, where candles and open flames aren't allowed, are we only supposed to do ritual/spells/etc in daylight? What problems does electric light cause, if any?

This is usually two fold.

1) The bright and constint light from a blub is to exact and prevents the mind from entering a lightly altered state.

2) (and this one I don't agree with) is that everything has an energy feild (not contested) and that electronics give off an energy feild that disrupts the flow of the magical energy you are working with (which I don't believe).

Largely? It mostly has to do with the mental seperation that many people put themselves through in order to create seperated sacred space (casting circles, special robes, pretty alter items etc) all create "sacred space" apart from daily living.

Quote:

2- Ritual correspondences. It is easy to find extensive lists of herbs, colors, stones, and other things paired with what they are associated with magically. Rarely do these lists show whose traditions are being used to come up with these correspondences, or any other explanation of how they were decided. So where do thes come from, and should we trust any given list of correspondences? Should we ever create/research our own, especially if our climate easily grows many things that are not found on these lists?

A handful of these come from different herbals that had genders and aspects of "warm, cool, sour and ..." I'm sorry, I'm forgetting the last major one. Anyway- amongst these were herbs laid out by the Chinese and Greek Doctors of their days, who had a complex (albeit inaccurate) idea of how the body worked, and how to balance "bile" within the body of different colors to gain different effects (herbs a leaches kiddies!).

The merits of these systems only extend so far as they are affective.

I will not trade my Onion Infusion for gold when I am sick (Deo? Did I remember the cloves in that!?).  

[TatteredAngel]

First off, thank both of you for your answers.

TeaDidikai

1) The bright and constint light from a blub is to exact and prevents the mind from entering a lightly altered state.

2) (and this one I don't agree with) is that everything has an energy feild (not contested) and that electronics give off an energy feild that disrupts the flow of the magical energy you are working with (which I don't believe).

I see that. Of course, I find the bright and constant light of the sun gives me migraines, and too much flickery candlelight can have the same effect, which is one reason I'm so curious on this one. Most of my working is done by lamp light- enough so I can see, but soft enough that it isn't glaring.

TeaDidikai

The merits of these systems only extend so far as they are affective.

So would you say that using correspondences that just seem right based on experience/herbal knowledge or other traditions is plenty valid as well?  

[Midnight Ana]

I just remebered something that I'd add to the "electricity" bit. There are some light switches with little "levers" on them that control the brightness of the bulb. I've got one of these in my room and I sometimes use it when meditating if I can't burn candles for one reason or another. It doesn't have the same effect that candles do but it helps.  

[TeaDidikai]

TatteredAngel

TeaDidikai

The merits of these systems only extend so far as they are affective.

So would you say that using correspondences that just seem right based on experience/herbal knowledge or other traditions is plenty valid as well?

I'd say, within the framework of magic, that the ends justify the means.  

[Starlock]

IN addition to what has been said, I have a few points to add:

1) A large part of ritual magic is creating a sittuation that is outside everyday reality. Part of everyday reality is electric lighting, and using candles or other sources we don't use every day help set up the ritual or spell as something sacred, special, and different. The basic result of this is that it makes it easier to focus.

2) Don't trust them. I don't. I research them. Trace back sources and figure out where the correspondences originated from. Often, a system might draw from multiple sources or you'll see conflicting tables because they come from two different sources. Unfortunately, correspondence tables rarely (although I say rarely, I've *never* seen it personally) cite their sources. Each correspondence type has an ideal way of research about it. For herbs, study botany. The science. For the elements, start with the early Greek philosophy.  

[Tenzin Chodron]

TatteredAngel

1- One book I have (back home, not here at school, so I can't give you the title just now) says point blank to always work by sunlight or candle light, and that electrical light is bad for magic. I've seen other things stated or insinuated, but never with an explanation, not even "the gods are rather offended by yon electric lights." So why? For those of us in college, where candles and open flames aren't allowed, are we only supposed to do ritual/spells/etc in daylight? What problems does electric light cause, if any?

There are a lot of indignant authors out there who think that anything they disapprove of, the gods must disapprove of, too. It's silliness is what it is. I would recomment crossing out that paragraph in your book with a red pencil crayon. 3nodding

TatteredAngel

2- Ritual correspondences. It is easy to find extensive lists of herbs, colors, stones, and other things paired with what they are associated with magically. Rarely do these lists show whose traditions are being used to come up with these correspondences, or any other explanation of how they were decided. So where do thes come from, and should we trust any given list of correspondences? Should we ever create/research our own, especially if our climate easily grows many things that are not found on these lists?

Alot of the modern-day correspondences are derived from Henry Cornelius Agrippa's "The Three Books of Occult Philosophy" which was written in the 15th Century. He got his information from a teacher before him, but sadly his books are all but a faint memory.

Then there are the dreadful correspondences that some people dream up and publish, where they see a "red" stone and automatically think it must mean "fire" or "sexual energy" so they write that down, completely ignorant to the fact that you can't just measure a stone's colour to determine it's properties. It has elements, a hardness rating, a geographic origin, et cetera. Stones are more complex than simple coloured candles. (Not better, just more complex.)  

[Kal Eldritch]

[ Jizo Bosatsu ]

Alot of the modern-day correspondences are derived from Henry Cornelius Agrippa's "The Three Books of Occult Philosophy" which was written in the 15th Century. He got his information from a teacher before him, but sadly his books are all but a faint memory.

Then there are the dreadful correspondences that some people dream up and publish, where they see a "red" stone and automatically think it must mean "fire" or "sexual energy" so they write that down, completely ignorant to the fact that you can't just measure a stone's colour to determine it's properties. It has elements, a hardness rating, a geographic origin, et cetera. Stones are more complex than simple coloured candles. (Not better, just more complex.)

What are you talking about, just a faint memory?! I've got 2 thousand some-odd pages sitting in my bedroom that says otherwise! Or do you mean a faint memory to you? Gah! Confusion...hurt...Sovereign... I do know, however, that his teacher was Trithemius.

hmm...so you're saying that the stone's given properties more than anything determine their usefulness in ritual? You wouldn't happen to have some links to provide me with where you got that info, would you? I'd like to know the origins of this whole subject.