Casting a Circle

[Gingerbread . Coffin]

This question came up on another online forum (non-Gaia) I frequent and we never really came up with an answer on why some cast in a circle.

Here's a clip from the original post of the topic:

Liz

Casting a circle
This is a Wiccan tradition. I cannot find it ANYWHERE else in scholarly texts and/or ancient texts or literatures! Please, if any of you can, share!

It seems that the Celts and Druids did not cast circle. They did not have sacred spaces as it is used by many neo-pagans. The specifically sacred spaces were those of the ancestors. Sometimes a space would be made or arranged for ritual but this was mostly a matter of location due to availability and/or size of area. But to cast a circle is to deem this space more sacred than any another. There was no such practice by the Celts, Druids, and not even by the Norse. Hell, concerning festivities for holidays, neither the ancient Greeks nor the ancient Egyptians did this for that matter.

For the Celts, Druids, and Norse, all places of nature are sacred.
To cast circle would have been an insult to spirits around the area because it excludes them. There were no inclusive / exclusive methods of ritual or religious practice. Initiation was not a must for one to be recognized as a follower of the religion. It was assumed. If you lived in the town, you practiced the religion. All were welcome in and out of the "sacred" space because all space was sacred. There were no boundaries and walls.

And yes, later in the topic, it was discussed that circles are important symbols of various things (which spawned a discussion on circle symbolism) and other such circle concepts (for example, circles for protection).

But we never really found out why some cast in circles, as a historical and metaphysical concept.

I was hoping to possibly get new light on it from various other traditions and standpoints as me and Liz (and most of the other people in this group) are more nature based than holding strong Celtic, Nordic, Egyptian, Greek, Roman, Shaman, other old religions or Wiccan teachings.  

[CuAnnan]

Perhaps The OP needs to be introduced to a "History of Ceremonial Magic 101" book? The fact that she keeps referring to the Celts and Druids as two seperate peoples pisses me off a little tbh  

[TeaDidikai]

Heh. Yeah- Reagun hit the nail on the head with that.

As to why- well, considering the roots of CM- not all space is sacred. Furthermore- within the founding faiths, you have many an unclean spirit that you would want to keep out- and clean spirits as well, less they distract you from the work.  

[Gingerbread . Coffin]

reagun ban

Perhaps The OP needs to be introduced to a "History of Ceremonial Magic 101" book? The fact that she keeps referring to the Celts and Druids as two seperate peoples pisses me off a little tbh

I corrected her on that one in my first post, but thank you for the tip in the right direction. (:

And thank you TeaDidikai for the Why. I think we'll do more research now that we know where to look too. (x  

[TeaDidikai]

Gingerbread . Coffin

reagun ban

Perhaps The OP needs to be introduced to a "History of Ceremonial Magic 101" book? The fact that she keeps referring to the Celts and Druids as two seperate peoples pisses me off a little tbh

I corrected her on that one in my first post, but thank you for the tip in the right direction. (:

And thank you TeaDidikai for the Why. I think we'll do more research now that we know where to look too. (x

No prob.

Ceremonial Magic is fun. I need to dig out my copy of the Goetia. I haven't looked at it in a while.  

[Gingerbread . Coffin]

TeaDidikai

Gingerbread . Coffin

reagun ban

Perhaps The OP needs to be introduced to a "History of Ceremonial Magic 101" book? The fact that she keeps referring to the Celts and Druids as two seperate peoples pisses me off a little tbh

I corrected her on that one in my first post, but thank you for the tip in the right direction. (:

And thank you TeaDidikai for the Why. I think we'll do more research now that we know where to look too. (x

No prob.

Ceremonial Magic is fun. I need to dig out my copy of the Goetia. I haven't looked at it in a while.

I've never done much in the way of CM, actually. o_O; Could be that I "lack the props". xp  

[TeaDidikai]

Heh... no kidding.

Some of those proper seals? Thousands of dollars! It's absurd!  

[Memento Mortalis Es]

Ceremonial magic, or more specifically, the Golden Dawn (I believe) was one of the main sources Uncle Gerald stole from borrowed from was inspired by when creating Wicca. And don't try to tell me that it came from the original coven he was supposedly initiated into. Even if it existed, he wouldn't have been able to use any of their material due to secrecy measures.

You want to annoy several groups of initiatory traditions at once? Find a copy of Ye Bok of Ye Art Magical. That's where the Golden Dawn, and after them Gardner, and probably after him Alex Sanders got a lot of liturgical design from. I'm a bit unsure of the spelling of the last two words of the title, though.  

[Kal Eldritch]

TeaDidikai

Heh... no kidding.

Some of those proper seals? Thousands of dollars! It's absurd!

Not to mention some of the very...eccentric materials and requirements used to create them. Where the hell am I going to find a black c**k that never knew a hen at midnight on the day of Saturn when I have had no sexual relations for over a month and have prayed for hours a day? GAH!!! Madening!  

[TeaDidikai]

Sovereign of Darkness

TeaDidikai

Heh... no kidding.

Some of those proper seals? Thousands of dollars! It's absurd!

Not to mention some of the very...eccentric materials and requirements used to create them. Where the hell am I going to find a black c**k that never knew a hen at midnight on the day of Saturn when I have had no sexual relations for over a month and have prayed for hours a day? GAH!!! Madening!

Don't recall that one. Most of the ceremonial magic seals I am familar with that are cost and labor prohibitive are usually out of verious substances- some of which are now "controlled", and have insane amounts of labor involved. Where the hell am I going to get the five pounds of gold needed for one of the greater seals?!

Or better yet... the mercury seal. Does anyone here know how insane quicksilver is to work with?!  

[Midnight Ana]

Gee, I hope I'm not butting in here.

To answer to the question about casting a circle, here's my personal reason. I don't call myself a Wiccan, but when I do a more formalized ritual I like to cast a circle because it helps me get in the "mood". Circles help me release tension and worries that maybe distract me.

Besides, my room is the last place anyone would call "scared".


Oh, and I have a question concerning ceremonial magic. I know nothing about it, but it seems like an interesting topic. What exactly are these seals? Are they substances or do you draw them?

Thanks.  

[TeaDidikai]

Midnightelf

Gee, I hope I'm not butting in here.

To answer to the question about casting a circle, here's my personal reason. I don't call myself a Wiccan, but when I do a more formalized ritual I like to cast a circle because it helps me get in the "mood". Circles help me release tension and worries that maybe distract me.

Besides, my room is the last place anyone would call "scared".

This is the facinating and fundimental difference between most pre-Christian spiritual paths, and the neo-pagan movement.

Quote:

Oh, and I have a question concerning ceremonial magic. I know nothing about it, but it seems like an interesting topic. What exactly are these seals? Are they substances or do you draw them?

Thanks.

Depends on what you are doing. In this context- you are looking at the use of Infernal and Supernal keys for the most part. The Greater Seals of Armindle (sp?) and the Lesser Keys of Solomon to summon supernal and infernal spirits.

The nature of the ritual and the spirit being summoned details what is used.  

[Midnight Ana]

TeaDidikai

Midnightelf

Gee, I hope I'm not butting in here.

To answer to the question about casting a circle, here's my personal reason. I don't call myself a Wiccan, but when I do a more formalized ritual I like to cast a circle because it helps me get in the "mood". Circles help me release tension and worries that maybe distract me.

Besides, my room is the last place anyone would call "scared".

This is the facinating and fundimental difference between most pre-Christian spiritual paths, and the neo-pagan movement.

True. Seeker here of course, I'm still in the experimentel phase. I see nothing wrong with casting a circle. Unless, since it's a wiccan concept it makes me look like a fluff by not calling myself a wiccan but still casting a circle. Rats...

Quote:

Oh, and I have a question concerning ceremonial magic. I know nothing about it, but it seems like an interesting topic. What exactly are these seals? Are they substances or do you draw them?

Thanks.

Depends on what you are doing. In this context- you are looking at the use of Infernal and Supernal keys for the most part. The Greater Seals of Armindle (sp?) and the Lesser Keys of Solomon to summon supernal and infernal spirits.

The nature of the ritual and the spirit being summoned details what is used.
Thank you for the answer, TeaDidikai.  

[Gingerbread . Coffin]

Midnightelf

Gee, I hope I'm not butting in here.

To answer to the question about casting a circle, here's my personal reason. I don't call myself a Wiccan, but when I do a more formalized ritual I like to cast a circle because it helps me get in the "mood". Circles help me release tension and worries that maybe distract me.

Besides, my room is the last place anyone would call "scared".

The few prayers with props I've done have been outside, generally, two miles away from any road, and the only foot prints are deer tracks.

I'll take working outside over burn-the-house-down fire hazards and waiting for every-member-of-my-ten-person-family-to-leave-the-house-and-not-call, any day, thanks... gonk  

[Kal Eldritch]

TeaDidikai

The Greater Seals of Armindle (sp?) and the Lesser Keys of Solomon to summon supernal and infernal spirits.used.

I believe it's Almandel...As in the Almadel of Solomon, fourth book of the Lemegeton?


EDIT: Doh. The Grimoire of Armadel, silly me. Yeesh...look at that latin title O_o (Liber Armadel Seu Totius Cabale Perfectissima Brevissima et Infallabilis Scientia Tam Speculativa Quam Practiqua)

Midnightelf

True. Seeker here of course, I'm still in the experimentel phase. I see nothing wrong with casting a circle. Unless, since it's a wiccan concept it makes me look like a fluff by not calling myself a wiccan but still casting a circle. Rats...

Wrong. Casting a circle stems from Ceremonial magic. As did the pentagram, I believe...just a little food for thought.

Gingerbread. Coffin

The few prayers with props I've done have been outside, generally, two miles away from any road, and the only foot prints are deer tracks.

I'll take working outside over burn-the-house-down fire hazards and waiting for every-member-of-my-ten-person-family-to-leave-the-house-and-not-call, any day, thanks...

If you're using live fire to cast a circle, than that's a tradition you've taken upon yourself. I've never heard of anyone doing it like that and quite honestly, it's relatively safe to cast a circle in your house as long as you're not grossly incompetant with match saftey. Most books I've read usualy deal with consecrating it with smoke from incence (minimally). In the most common Ceremonial Magic circle ritual (the lesser banishing ritual of the pentagram) I've read variations where you don't even need incence smoke. Really, I think all that the author of Modern Magick used was an athame or his two forefingers, but I'm open to correction...