Who do you believe to be a true vampire!?

[chiwarriorcelesti]

I'm seeing this arguement a lot recently and shall now bring it to our neck of the geek woods! Who does our guild believe to be the true vampire? The traditional dark gentleman Dracula, or the new age 'sparkly' Cullens!? Lets hear your thoughts folks.  

[chiwarriorcelesti]

Fukii

lol

Well I consider them both vampires, just of a different "breed".

Honestly, I don't really get why so many people feel that vampires must be ugly and horrendous like Nospheratu since it makes more sense to me that a vampire would be beautiful in order to attract their victims, or at least capable of casting the illusion of beauty (in those cases in which a vampire is an intelligent being and not just some bloodthirsty monster with no real thought outside of instinct). I also don't get why so many people think that all "true" vampires must be dark and "children of the night" in order to be more believable. Each culture in just about every part of the world has their own version of the vampire, and some of them are pretty weird right along with being ugly, so I don't see why we can't have both dark and sparkly versions.

Variety is the spice of life, and I'm hard-pressed for picking only one spice to live with.

But even though I don't have any real problem with sparkly vampires, I do think Cullen is lame. xP

I think that's probably the major reason a lot of people think Cullen isn't a real vampire. Not the sparkliness, probably the over emotionalness...At least that's what I think.  

[AntoniaMerEnfant]

My big complaint with the Twilight Crew is the lack of emphasis on Vampires being cursed. I believe that the point of vampires was that vamps are cursed, forsaken wretches who are on some level monsters. Fukii made a good point that you don't have to be Nosferatu (btw, have you done some world of darkness role playing?) to be a vamp. But even Ann Rice and White Wolf still had vampires as, well, the damned. There are "Deva" as Vampire the Requiem (White Wolf Publishing based game) calls them, aka pretty vamps.

However, even the lovely vamps have lost some level of their humanity, sacrifices are made. Immortality always comes at a price- and I really believe that is the cornerstone of the vampire legend.

The problem with the Cullens is that Meyer gives the vampires even more cool abilities than before- with so few drawbacks. The upsides far, far outweigh the good- sunlight is only an issue for the breaking of illusion, not because it causes you to burst into flames. Vamps are ALL beautiful in this world- the only ones that come close to boring or ugly are perhaps the super old Romanian (I think it was Romanian) vampires mentioned in Breaking Dawn. There are only two real drawbacks: You have blood thirst even if you choose to eat animals and you outlive your family and friends. And the second option- well with Vampirism looking so spiffy- just turn your loved ones into vamps. Vamps are endowed with ungodly strength, speed, talent, senses, reflexes, and beauty. It's an existence that is near-perfect.

I think the problem there is that great myths and legends are based upon the drawbacks to immortality/godliness. The legends of vampires come from a root of the unclean or the forsaken. I'm not saying vampires can't be good guys in literature and still be genuine. But I think part of the vampire myth was the fact that for some the allure of the power would be enough to forsake humanity, but that for most people turning into a vampire would be a bad thing. Ya know?

Like getting bit by a werewolf, it's supposed to be bad.

I am, however, waiting for zombies to be glamorized.  

[chiwarriorcelesti]

AntoniaMerEnfant

My big complaint with the Twilight Crew is the lack of emphasis on Vampires being cursed. I believe that the point of vampires was that vamps are cursed, forsaken wretches who are on some level monsters. Fukii made a good point that you don't have to be Nosferatu (btw, have you done some world of darkness role playing?) to be a vamp. But even Ann Rice and White Wolf still had vampires as, well, the damned. There are "Deva" as Vampire the Requiem (White Wolf Publishing based game) calls them, aka pretty vamps.

However, even the lovely vamps have lost some level of their humanity, sacrifices are made. Immortality always comes at a price- and I really believe that is the cornerstone of the vampire legend.

The problem with the Cullens is that Meyer gives the vampires even more cool abilities than before- with so few drawbacks. The upsides far, far outweigh the good- sunlight is only an issue for the breaking of illusion, not because it causes you to burst into flames. Vamps are ALL beautiful in this world- the only ones that come close to boring or ugly are perhaps the super old Romanian (I think it was Romanian) vampires mentioned in Breaking Dawn. There are only two real drawbacks: You have blood thirst even if you choose to eat animals and you outlive your family and friends. And the second option- well with Vampirism looking so spiffy- just turn your loved ones into vamps. Vamps are endowed with ungodly strength, speed, talent, senses, reflexes, and beauty. It's an existence that is near-perfect.

I think the problem there is that great myths and legends are based upon the drawbacks to immortality/godliness. The legends of vampires come from a root of the unclean or the forsaken. I'm not saying vampires can't be good guys in literature and still be genuine. But I think part of the vampire myth was the fact that for some the allure of the power would be enough to forsake humanity, but that for most people turning into a vampire would be a bad thing. Ya know?

Like getting bit by a werewolf, it's supposed to be bad.

I am, however, waiting for zombies to be glamorized.

Yup. Look at poor Dracula...spat curses at god and got a right nasty curse there...  

[chiwarriorcelesti]

Lets also hear who's everyone's favorite villains are, and why!  

[Punk Fox TH]

AntoniaMerEnfant

My big complaint with the Twilight Crew is the lack of emphasis on Vampires being cursed.

I actually waxed philosophical on this very point once. Namely, the Vampire myth has existed as a way to explore that which humanity hates in itself. As you explore the myth in its many forms, the creature has always had examples of things that humans long for, but also despise. Dracula was blooded nobility, a place of privilege and prestige, but also where a lot of hate fell. The Cullens, and their ilk, are examples of our image driven society: perfect in every imaginable way, but in being perfect, something to hate. Truly, they're as frightening as any Vampire, if looked at in the proper light, and a solid author penning a tale using Meyers vampires could be a biting diatribe to our priorities in this society.  

[Headhunter]

I'm generally pretty liberal about the definition of a vampire, but I don't like these Twilight Vampires simply because they aren't negatively affected by the sun which, from my experience, has always been the one constant no matter what else was different about your vampires. But, Stephanie Meyer is richer than an astronaut, so what do I know?

I've always liked the idea of vampires being virus victims, ala Blade, rather than them being the undead, but I know that's something that conservative vampire fans look down on (which may be part of the reason why I like it).

I also like Warhammer's vampires. They're traditional undead but many are also powerful sorcerers who command lesser undead like zombies, ghouls, banshees and animated skeletons. Some can even use their magic to blacken the skies so they can personally direct their armies as they march on the lands of the living.  

[Kobo Kai]

I look at it like this: if he sparkles and won't have sex with you... ladies you are not dealing with a vampire, you have a gay man on your hands.

Team Nosferau!  

[Kobo Kai]

Willow Jamboo

I look at it like this: if he sparkles and won't have sex with you... ladies you are not dealing with a vampire, you have a gay man on your hands.

Team Nosferau!

Nosferatu sweatdrop  

[chiwarriorcelesti]

Fukii

chiwarriorcelesti

Lets also hear who's everyone's favorite villains are, and why!

Favorite villains which are vampires, or villains in general?

I'll have to think about that and come back in a bit, but I generally love villains who are a little crazy but very intelligent and make no excuses for their evil deeds/intentions -- like a, "I am what I am," sort of thing.

At the point about vampirism being a curse, I have to agree. That's part of what turned me off from Twilight to begin with, is how lightly Meyer treated that whole "condition". She was writing for a specific target group, and she did a very good job at appealing to that group, but the end result is a teenage girl's wet dream that has very little substance, and marketeers seem very determined to milk this monster for all they can.

I don't mind beautiful vampires. Just not Twilight vampires for the reasons already stated.

I also don't have too much of a problem with vampirism being treated as a viral infection, but that depends on how they go about defining it from there. Plot holes abound when writers try to use scientific explanations but fail to acknowledge actual science -- I mean, taken from an example here and there, I think it's pretty lame that a virus can mutate its host to the degree that it would need to in order to create our idea of a vampire, especially within the time it normally does, without actually killing the host and deteriorating the brain into mindless mush. It's lame because it can't explain how this is possible, at least in scientific terms. The nature of viruses is clear, they're not here to help us, and those that mutate kill all the faster. So why are vampiric viruses so different? What makes them capable of keeping their hosts alive, functional and aware, especially when this goes against the nature of viruses in general? The answer would depend on the depiction of the vampire, on how mindless or how sentient it is, as well on what "powers" it inherits in becoming a vampire -- how far you go one way or the other could more closely define a vampire as a ghoul or a zombie, in which case it's not really a vampire anymore. You would also have to be careful on how contagious you'd depict this virus because if you make it too easily contractible one might question how it's not far more widespread than it is.

To keep a vampire a vampire while also keeping the vampire sentient and self-aware and the virus more "self-contained", and especially in granting a vampire superhuman abilities, you would almost certainly need at least some supernatural elements to explain away some of the more obvious holes presented by a scientific explanation being used to explain something that isn't supposed to make much sense to the scientific community in the first place. At least not entirely. I prefer to keep it all supernatural because it makes it harder for me to question (which makes it easier for me to sit back and enjoy the ride), but I can buy a good science/supernatural mix if done right. It's only when they try to go all science that it actually becomes far less believable to me. Ironic, I know.

Just any villian, or type of villian in general. What about them does everyone enjoy?  

[AntoniaMerEnfant]

Willow Jamboo

Willow Jamboo

I look at it like this: if he sparkles and won't have sex with you... ladies you are not dealing with a vampire, you have a gay man on your hands.

Team Nosferau!

Nosferatu sweatdrop

rofl rofl Love this.  

[AntoniaMerEnfant]

Fave Villains:

(I know I'm going to forget someone).

I'm a huge fan of ambiguous villains- as they are intensely human: the antagonists who spend about as much time as villains as they do as heros, complex mofos.

Magneto from X-Men- let's face it, he had a darn good reason to be pissy, and he had great respect for Xavier.

Hera from Greek Mythos- I don't like her much, but she's actually a superb villain. Let's face it, you have to feel bad for her that her husband is Zeus- the original man-wh0r3. However, the little stunt she pulled on Hercules was unacceptably cold.

Medusa from Greek Myth- When you consider her backstory she is a beautifully tragic character.

Kensei from Heroes- I really liked the actor they had for him, great mannerisms. I was bummed they didn't do more with him.

T-Bag from Prisonbreak: Perhaps one of the most disturbing and creepy villains of tv history. A murdering rapist that was surprisingly complex.

And of course there are the non-complex but truly bad @$$ villains...

Maleficent from Disney's Sleeping Beauty: She got away with saying "hell" in a Disney movie- and she turned into a DRAGON. Yes, scary and hard core.

Sephiroth from FF7- over-hyped, but he did successfully cause an entire generation of gamers to cry like helpless babies.

Lex Luthor- Classic.

Skynet from the Terminator Series- the embodiment of sleeping with one eye open in case your now-sentient cell phone is going to kill you while you sleep. NO NOKIA, NOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!

Mistress 9 from Sailor Moon: Her hair was 30 yards long and could be used as a weapon, I rest my case.