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 Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 3:34 pm
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I had a very odd event happen to me last night, and would like advice and opinions that aren't simply calling me crazy or bashing the fact that I'm no longer an atheist.
In short, last night I had a dream in which a Hawk Goddess came to me,and I know I'm supposed to worship her. I used to be an atheist, but I honestly can't call myself one anymore. I have absolutely no idea who this woman is, or why she appeared to me. I had a similar dream before I had my first period, with the same hawk Goddess, but it wasn't as vivid, and also, I was still able to be an atheist then. I had a vision as well, when I was showering late last night of a hawk sitting on my bathroom rail(where you put shampoo and stuff), but I chalked that up to being tired. Does anyone know which Goddesses are generally thought of as being hawks or hawk like birds? Sorry if this is in the wrong place!
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Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 4:41 pm
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For the record, I might as well state the religions I've been raised and my family's various religions thruout the centuries if it might help for some of the religions that are more "closed", if my dream seems applicable to one of them.
I was raised Scottish Jewish(Basically a hold over from the Crusades when some English Noble Jews moved up to Scotland, and lived there. My family in recent years has combined it with more modern Jewish practices.), with my mother calling herself a "Wiccan Pagan Druid". My great grandmother wore an ankh her whole life(I think she just thought it looked good), which her great grand father gave to her(He supposedly got it from a gypsy on a trip thruout eastern Europe in the early 1800s. He got kicked out of Scotland and the Royal Courts of many countries.), but she was an atheist. We practiced many Jewish traditions for centuries, and still have a lot of Jewish traditions, such as a woman being required to bath during her period(I know it's traditionally after), and the idea that a spot of blood in an egg is unhealthy(unkosher), pork is bad for you(Again, Kosher laws), men should be circumcised, if it's Ok(more recent, at least according to cousin's of mine) and will not cause them to get arrested, among other things. New Years was always in Spring, though the end of the year was often celebrated around Thanksgiving.(Not sure if that makes sense. We had family parties and called them things like that, in addition to the normal holidays.)
My mother does have a warped view of what Wicca means, as she thinks it's more what "neopagan" means, with earth worshiping and mind spells(taking control of people's minds/trying to control their actions with one's thoughts or by applying stones to them. Used to bug the crap out of me as a little child before I figured out what she was doing. She claims she needed my "time" and that I looked like my great grandmother, and acted much the same way, so she was trying to get in touch with her(She was very close to her grandmother), but I doubt she's a psych vamp, as she really doesn't know a ton about things. The one VIP thing she ever taught me to "defend" myself from her bugging me was to visualize a mirror and reflect the energy at it. She told me this after I asked why she had mirrors all around her room and such when I was about 7. When I tried doing it mentally, I ended up thinking about atheism, and stopped feeling sick and tired after my mother would "meditate" with her hands on me, as I'd just think of mirrors.). She would also have us light sticks of incense for "health" and to make a room "clean", and sprinkle salt around the house after someone died in the family, then sweep it all up. My mother also supported ancestor worship. My grandfather was raised Jewish, and turned Catholic, then Jewish Atheist again later in life. My father was/is Buddhist, and I have many atheist relatives. In the 700s, I understand my family converted from "heathen"(We were part of the Picts, of Northern Scotland, so that is either Norse Religion, or Celtic Druid stuff. My mother goes with the Druid definition based on some ancestry research of my family name, which means child of the Priest and dates to pre Christianity.(Ie, BC)), to Christianity, as one of my ancestors was having a gay love affair with the king of Alba. Druid is probably not the correct term, but the family texts we have that date to the 1600s do refer to the founder of our clan's noblity as being a "druid"(Late 1800s diaries) or "heathen preacher"("Sinners and blasphemers" being the term used in the prior era, such as the 1600s letters) from the 300s, and all of his children were as it was the noble title in the area. Now, how much of that got warped over the centuries is probably a lot of it, if not all, as a lot of the religious stuff doesn't match up with much except for "rumors"/gossip from the past, and the names with people in history textbooks with a similar time range. We later lost the noble title for various reasons(Ahem, duels and such over "honor", along with a lot of treason things.) and became a normal middle class family in America, with just a long history.
As far as I know, there's no hawks that are in my family's religions(Which may be important for some of the "closed circle" religions with hawks in them), and I'm quite nervous to talk with my mother given that she is mostly ancestor worship with a touch of Earth worship, and I'm not really in the mood for her trying to "pry" into my mind, or for her to give me inaccurate advice and or try to hurt me. She messed up my childhood at times by making me go to "wiccan" rituals(Not real Wicca, I'm almost certain of that.) with her, which really messed up my grades when I was little. (My childhood friend, who also went to those rituals with me, she says they were just neopagan stuff, but they stopped for me when I was 10 as my mother was starting to freak her mother out with her attempts to take control of them. In regular life, my mother isn't really that controlling, and a wonderful mother!) I'd always be tired after them, and I do remember when I got the flu majorly, she tried to bring me to a mean woman(I was really little. All I remember is that she seemed mean and smelled funny. The reasoning my mother gave to my doctors as to the heavy scarring in my lungs was that I had a herbal treatment. So I guess a herbalist? But there were no herbs, or even sugar pills. Just some grayish stones placed on me... She is correct in the fact I wasn't given real medication for quite a while after.) who tried putting stones on me and I just felt way sicker after and ended up with a moderate lung infection, which my mother treated after a while. I don't know if she was trying to steal my energy or what not, and how to protect myself as I venture back into things like meditation and religion. Part of me thinks my being atheist was an attempt to protect myself from some of her acts. I'm a lot older now, and probably stronger, so I do feel "Ok" trying religion out again. I'm also curious as to just what religion my mother would fall into. I know the circle we went to was supposedly "Celtic/Hellenistic" according to the friend of mine, but those don't seem to match up together. My father is just a straight Buddhist, atheist in some respects, but agnostic in others. My other grandparents died, or weren't religious in any particular sense of the word. I am also a little nervous about trying out paganism as my mother and her religion aren't perfect in many ways, and have hurt me in the past. If it weren't for the dream I had last night, I wouldn't even be considering it.
For my personal religion, before last night, I was an atheist. I use science and logic in everything. Then I had a dream that made me change my opinion, and thus I'm confused about what that dream meant, and what religion to follow, as all I know of my religion is that the Goddess is a hawk.
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Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 6:46 pm
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Orchidsandfractals I had a very odd event happen to me last night, and would like advice and opinions that aren't simply calling me crazy
Quote: In short, last night I had a dream in which a Hawk Goddess came to me,and I know I'm supposed to worship her.
Quote: Does anyone know which Goddesses are generally thought of as being hawks or hawk like birds? Sorry if this is in the wrong place!
There might be others. But as I asked before- how do you know you aren't deluding yourself?
Orchidsandfractals I was raised Scottish Jewish
Quote: He supposedly got it from a gypsy on a trip thruout eastern Europe in the early 1800s.
Druid was a title, not a theological appointment.
Quote: For my personal religion, before last night, I was an atheist. I use science and logic in everything. |
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Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 7:07 pm
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TeaDidikai Orchidsandfractals I had a very odd event happen to me last night, and would like advice and opinions that aren't simply calling me crazy What about legitimately calling you to critically evaluate the chance you are deluding yourself? Quote: In short, last night I had a dream in which a Hawk Goddess came to me,and I know I'm supposed to worship her. How do you know? Quote: Does anyone know which Goddesses are generally thought of as being hawks or hawk like birds? Sorry if this is in the wrong place! The only one who I know of personally wouldn't welcome you as a follower. You're "unclean". ~shrugs~ There might be others. But as I asked before- how do you know you aren't deluding yourself? Orchidsandfractals I was raised Scottish Jewish Theologically, culturally or both in regards to being Jewish? Quote: He supposedly got it from a gypsy on a trip thruout eastern Europe in the early 1800s. Gypsy is an ethic slur, please do not use it- as it is against the terms of service. Druid was a title, not a theological appointment. Quote: For my personal religion, before last night, I was an atheist. I use science and logic in everything. It isn't as though that is exclusive of theists, by the way.
I know I am sane as I have to see a shrink quite often due to one of my medications which can cause severe attacks of depression(I have seizures.), though as far as I know it doesn't cause hallucinations or delusions. It's called "Keppra" if you wish to look it up. I might argue still that all religions are delusional as they believe in the existence of a deity without any proof said deity exists.
I know I'm supposed to worship the Goddess as she appeared to me, and I was basically struck with the feeling that she is the one I'm supposed to worship. I'm not quite sure how to explain it in words, she didn't say anything to me, just appeared and was there.
Happen to know the name of the religion? I wouldn't call myself a part of it, but I'd at least like to know the name of the possibilities, even if I am not a member of it and couldn't ever be.
I was raised culturally Jewish, as a member of the Jewish people to some degree, though religion wise my family is very loose and has very iffy standards as to what it is compared to more distinct Jewish communities. As far as I know, there weren't exactly a lot of Jews in Scotland practicing in the 1100s onwards. They weren't even legally supposed to be there. I am a Jew, that is my culture, even if it was very poorly practiced for centuries(So probably Revitalized Crypto Jew is the best way to describe my family's Jewishness) and it wasn't until the last few generations that anyone had bothered to go to a Temple or anything like that.
I apologize for using the word "gypsy", the Roma(I presume this is the more "PC term") people I know IRL generally refer to themselves as such(And laugh when people claim it's an ethnic slur, as they do not view it as such, but if a person here does, I will refrain from using it to avoid offending people. Many African Americans refer to themselves by the N word, so I will treat the G word as such in my mind for this forum.), and it was a common phrase in the time period, and still is the most common phrase. We are not totally sure if it was even a Roma person, or if said ancestor made up a story about the necklace. For all we know for sure, he may have just been given a necklace by a random homeless person in a country where he didn't speak the language.
As far as the Druid bit, that's basically what my great grandmother had written down on genealogy. I am not claiming my ancestors pre Christianization of Scotland were "Druids", in the literal sense of the word, just we know that they were somewhat religious, and were nobles. We know that they were most literally "priests"(Which really could have meant anything, and we aren't even sure if they were Norse in religion, or Celtic, or a possible "Pictish" religion which would currently be unknown, as we don't know if the Picts even had their own religion.), which appears to have been written down as Druid in a lot of later histories, when they were translated into English later on.
I'm not saying that theists do not ever use logic, or do not commonly use it. It's just the very nature of faith implies that a being which one has no physical scientific proof of exists. They may use logic in all other matters or science as well. |
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Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 7:15 pm
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Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 7:28 pm
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Orchidsandfractals I know I am sane as I have to see a shrink quite often due to one of my medications which can cause severe attacks of depression(I have seizures.), though as far as I know it doesn't cause hallucinations or delusions. It's called "Keppra" if you wish to look it up. I might argue still that all religions are delusional as they believe in the existence of a deity without any proof said deity exists.
Quote: I know I'm supposed to worship the Goddess as she appeared to me, and I was basically struck with the feeling that she is the one I'm supposed to worship. I'm not quite sure how to explain it in words, she didn't say anything to me, just appeared and was there.
Quote: Happen to know the name of the religion? I wouldn't call myself a part of it, but I'd at least like to know the name of the possibilities, even if I am not a member of it and couldn't ever be.
You should look for others.
Quote: I was raised culturally Jewish, as a member of the Jewish people to some degree, though religion wise my family is very loose and has very iffy standards as to what it is compared to more distinct Jewish communities. As far as I know, there weren't exactly a lot of Jews in Scotland practicing in the 1100s onwards. They weren't even legally supposed to be there. I am a Jew, that is my culture, even if it was very poorly practiced for centuries(So probably Revitalized Crypto Jew is the best way to describe my family's Jewishness) and it wasn't until the last few generations that anyone had bothered to go to a Temple or anything like that.
Quote: I apologize for using the word "gypsy", the Roma(I presume this is the more "PC term") people I know IRL generally refer to themselves as such(And laugh when people claim it's an ethnic slur, as they do not view it as such, but if a person here does, I will refrain from using it to avoid offending people.
What nation are they? Quote: Many African Americans refer to themselves by the N word, so I will treat the G word as such in my mind for this forum.), and it was a common phrase in the time period, and still is the most common phrase. We are not totally sure if it was even a Roma person, or if said ancestor made up a story about the necklace. For all we know for sure, he may have just been given a necklace by a random homeless person in a country where he didn't speak the language.
Quote: As far as the Druid bit, that's basically what my great grandmother had written down on genealogy. I am not claiming my ancestors pre Christianization of Scotland were "Druids", in the literal sense of the word, just we know that they were somewhat religious, and were nobles. We know that they were most literally "priests"(Which really could have meant anything, and we aren't even sure if they were Norse in religion, or Celtic, or a possible "Pictish" religion which would currently be unknown, as we don't know if the Picts even had their own religion.), which appears to have been written down as Druid in a lot of later histories, when they were translated into English later on.
I'm trying to fathom how one would go about confusing a term like Godhi with a title found amongst the Celtic tribes.
Quote: I'm not saying that theists do not ever use logic, or do not commonly use it. It's just the very nature of faith implies that a being which one has no physical scientific proof of exists. They may use logic in all other matters or science as well. |
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Posted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 3:11 pm
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I know it's not a delusion in the sense that every religious person knows that their god is not a delusion. There is no physical proof of any god, anywhere, and the unexplainable can be chalked up with ease to a lack of science knowledge, and even if one is to attribute it to a god, there is no way to proof that that god is the correct one.
Please explain what a "Thoughtform" is? If you mean that I made her up, it would be quite a strange thing for me to make up in dreams, as generally my dreams are ideas of what I wish to do, plans for the future, or simply myself living another life with a different possiblity or age. Not suddenly following a Goddess when I'm an atheist.
If you wish not to name ideas of which Goddesses are hawks, I am sorry if I inadvertantly discover who she is later on and try to follow her path way. I am asking for advice on who she is, or ideas as to which Goddess I should consider looking into, or avoiding entirely. I would rather not accidentally follow a Goddess who does not want me to follow her.
One does not have to be a good Jew or believe in the Jewish god to be a Jew. It's a lot more complex than that. A Jew is free to worship other religions, provided the other religions accept them and one do not mind the idea of pissing off our God. All Christians are very bad Jews by the laws of Judaism(Or very good Jews depending on who you ask.).
The Roma people I know are a woman who went to my high school. She is American, as am I, and her little brother, who is also American. Her great grandmother came from Eastern Europe, and refered to herself as a "Gword", and married a man there, and she came to America and gave birth here, without her husband. The woman I am closest with, she is as much a Roma person as I am a Jew, and more so, I daresay.
Note, the ankh that was given to one of my ancesters dates from the early 1800s or so. To say that racism wasn't common then, or that we can even be sure of the race of the person, that is unclear. It was written by him in a diary that it was a "g word" woman, but it is entirely possible a random person gave it to him, and I would presume homeless or such, given the bad rep that the Roma had during that time period, and that the necklace is very cheap and ratty looking compared to the necklaces his wife and mother had. He also didn't speak Polish or German or Russian, and was in various Eastern European countries when he was given the necklace, so he would have been very unaware of the culture there, or fashions and such, so we can presume that by saying she was a beggard g word, that he saw some poor woman who gave him a necklace, who he thought was a Roma person. He was raised in a moderately wealthy family, so that woman could have been middle class for all we know.
The family histories in English that we have were translated in various periods from the 1700s to the 1920s. They were not translated by people who were particularly religious in the ways of Celtic faith, and it is more of a side note than all the battles we fought and such.
The very nature of faith is that one believes in something without proof. http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/faith Definition number 2.
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Posted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 7:22 pm
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Posted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 7:23 pm
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Posted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 7:53 pm
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Posted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 10:57 pm
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Orchidsandfractals I know it's not a delusion in the sense that every religious person knows that their god is not a delusion.
Quote: Please explain what a "Thoughtform" is? If you mean that I made her up, it would be quite a strange thing for me to make up in dreams, as generally my dreams are ideas of what I wish to do, plans for the future, or simply myself living another life with a different possiblity or age. Not suddenly following a Goddess when I'm an atheist.
As for why it's strange- it's equally strange that any being would take any interest in you without justification. ~shrugs~
Quote: If you wish not to name ideas of which Goddesses are hawks, I am sorry if I inadvertantly discover who she is later on and try to follow her path way.
Quote: One does not have to be a good Jew or believe in the Jewish god to be a Jew. It's a lot more complex than that. A Jew is free to worship other religions, provided the other religions accept them and one do not mind the idea of pissing off our God. All Christians are very bad Jews by the laws of Judaism(Or very good Jews depending on who you ask.).
Quote: The Roma people I know are a woman who went to my high school. She is American, as am I, and her little brother, who is also American. Her great grandmother came from Eastern Europe, and refered to herself as a "Gword", and married a man there, and she came to America and gave birth here, without her husband. The woman I am closest with, she is as much a Roma person as I am a Jew, and more so, I daresay. |
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Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 8:52 am
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TeaDidikai Orchidsandfractals I know it's not a delusion in the sense that every religious person knows that their god is not a delusion. Not really. See, some of us have CPG. Others are religious and delusional. 3nodding Quote: Please clarify how you can even consider yourself religious then(Which I presume you are by posting in a guild to help pagans and Wiccans.)? You seem to be arguing for atheism, which is a lack of a belief in a God. If you do not believe a god of your choice to be real, then you are an atheist, and not exactly helping me. I am not claiming that said Goddess is appearing on my physical world, just that she reached me mentally and exists for me, just as any god exists for any religious person mentally. Please explain what a "Thoughtform" is? If you mean that I made her up, it would be quite a strange thing for me to make up in dreams, as generally my dreams are ideas of what I wish to do, plans for the future, or simply myself living another life with a different possiblity or age. Not suddenly following a Goddess when I'm an atheist. "Made her up" constructed... whatever, yes. While some traditions vary as to the nature of the process and it's application, you seem to have the bare basics of the concept well enough. As for why it's strange- it's equally strange that any being would take any interest in you without justification. ~shrugs~ See above. I do not claim to know the means of the Goddess in contacting me. Just as we humans do not understand each other, there is no way to know what another supernatural being may think of me, or why she would contact me. Perhaps she is looking for converts. Christianity often uses the idea of their God contacting people to save them from sin and hell. Quote: If you wish not to name ideas of which Goddesses are hawks, I am sorry if I inadvertantly discover who she is later on and try to follow her path way. What I am saying is the being I am thinking of is not contacting you. She wouldn't. You're unclean, thus there is no point in naming the specific being I am thinking of. Then I would like to know which Goddess it is so that if I research and discover her, I know it is not she(There aren't exactly a lot of Hawk Goddesses out there.), and do not insult said goddess by worshiping her if I am unclean, and insult my own Goddess by mistaking her for another. Quote: One does not have to be a good Jew or believe in the Jewish god to be a Jew. It's a lot more complex than that. A Jew is free to worship other religions, provided the other religions accept them and one do not mind the idea of pissing off our God. All Christians are very bad Jews by the laws of Judaism(Or very good Jews depending on who you ask.). At which point we have hit the differences between people who theologically Jewish and culturally so. Certainly, but it doesn't make me less of a Jew, or deny that I was raised to some degree in a Jewish religion, abit very poorly. I am a Jewish person, of the Jewish faith, of my own interepretation of it, regardless of if that means to worship a false idol. The Black Mass in Catholicism would be similar to a Jewish pagan. I am choosing to worship a different Goddess than the Judaochristian God. Quote: The Roma people I know are a woman who went to my high school. She is American, as am I, and her little brother, who is also American. Her great grandmother came from Eastern Europe, and refered to herself as a "Gword", and married a man there, and she came to America and gave birth here, without her husband. The woman I am closest with, she is as much a Roma person as I am a Jew, and more so, I daresay. You don't seem to know what being Rroma is about if you suggest that. Your justification fails to address what being Rroma is, and actually is slightly racist since it presumes to tell others what being part of their ethnicity is about.
She considers herself to be a Rroma, and was the person who told me of that term and how she personally finds it offensive, as it's attempt to be too PC as opposed to what she actually is. From my understanding, it's similar to the difference between African American and black for people of African Ancestry in the USA in which term is used, except she finds Rroma to be much more offensive than African American is considered by people of African Ancestry in the US. If you so strongly object to what I have been told by people who consider themselves part of a culture, even if they are foremost American(Just as I am American, then Scottish, then Jewish culturally.), please explain what you think being "Rroma"(I have only seen it spelled Roma, but I will presume that that is what you consider to be the correct spelling.), is about. She is more so a Roma than I am a Jew, because she has more practicing ancestors who have been involved more heavily in the culture than my ancestors have been in mainstream Jewish culture. |
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Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 9:42 am
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Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 10:06 am
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maenad nuri ....why on Earth would she find "Roma" to be the offensive term?
Because she considers herself to be a g word. Many African Americans(People of African Ancestry.) consider that term offensive, and prefer the term black, or even the n word to it. It's like the debate among feminists between the word woman, and lady, as the word woman has the word man in it, but lady does not. Some Jewish people find the phrase Person of Jewish(Or semetic.) Faith(or culture) to be offensive, because they consider the word Jew to be a better word, even though it is considered more offensive by some Jewish people. (Probably the better known example is if a Jewfro is an "Ok" word, or a Jew nose, as opposed to "Densly curled hair" and a "hooked nose", in reference to a Jewish person. Or, "Jew Curls" in reference to sideburns. Some people are very offended by those terms, and many non Jewish people are VERY offended by a person telling a friend that they've got a Jew nose(If both people are Jewish).) |
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Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 10:43 am
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Reply
