Nines' Path (Okay, go.)

[Nines19]

Nines' Path (Because I can't think up a better title right now.)

Basically I would describe it as "heretical non-denominational Christianity". The following posts give more substance.

(I could put some background/history-of-beliefs info in here if you guys want it.)

Contents:
- First post. (Possible history info.)
- Points of belief. To be dissected and discussed. smile
- Rectified issues.
- Recent experiences/ideas.
- Interesting/good points.  

[Nines19]

Points of belief:
- Monolateralism: Most/all gods (possibly) exist. I only worship (Trinitarian) YHWH.

- Agape: Love God, love everyone else too. It's a struggle, but I'm trying. Some day harder than others, but I'm more than aware that I'm not and never will be perfect.

- Satan! Servant of YHWH, far as I can tell.

- Afterlife: (This is an unsupported belief. It is possible that this might be one of those, "I believe it because I like the idea," things. I would like to do more research on this, but on the same note I don't think there's much evidence for or against afterlife beliefs.) Heaven, I'm not entirely sure of, in regards to "Who goes there?" I think, probably, people who followed Christ and Agape (or tried their best) and tried to be good people. Possibly also Jews and Muslims who tried to be good, since YHWH is their god as well. In regards to what it's like, I think this gets into "I like the idea of it" territory; I think it's the basic essences of everyone all meshing and combining with that of YHWH, like some kind of mystical soul soup, if that image helps. Hell, if it exists at all in the "fiery torment" sense, is possibly a place for people who used the idea of their gods in order to violate things that were sacred to that god/s. For example, Hitler using the idea of him being Christian to say he was exterminating the Jews because God wanted him to -- this pretty clearly violates Agape. (This might be me projecting my ideas of morality onto the idea of an afterlife, though.) Everyone else goes to whatever respective afterlife they happen to believe in - reincarnation, oblivion, Valhalla, etc. (Again into "I like the idea of it" territory.)

- Church: (The place/event, as in Mass.) Not necessary, but personally I enjoyed my last visit. A lot more than I used to when I was younger. I think it might have a little to do with me actually understanding what the preacher is talking about, and possibly the fact that my attention span is better at 17 than it was at 7... I think if approached with the right mindset, going to Mass can help to enhance one's relationship with God.

- The Bible: Main focus is on the Gospels. Everything else is secondary.

- "Magic": I think I touched on this in an earlier thread I had in the main guild forum. Let's drag that up, shall we?

Nines19

TeaDidikai

Quote:

Another idea I'm fond of and don't really want to "give up" is the idea of magic in addition to prayer. It would probably be a good idea to explain what I mean by magic, so I will; What I call magic is using a part of myself to help change myself and consequently my life. [It's difficult to explain more than that because I'm not totaly sure I have a good grip on it myself.] I think doing this in addition to prayer would help me feel self-sufficient but not totally removed from YHWH in that I would be working on my own to better myself as well as asking Him for help.

What part of yourself are you employing?

I'd like to say a part of my mind, because everything I can remember having done has been mentally-focused (in what could be considered a meditative state, by some), but like I said, I don't totally understand it yet myself.

- Prayer: I'm a fan. Just talking to God. I'm pretty informal. Respectful, but informal, as if I'm talking to an older family member I respect a lot.
-- Subnote: Not entirely sure how I feel about praying to other beings, like angels or whatnot. I wouldn't pray to other gods simply to not come close to crossing into "dangerous" territory with YHWH.

- Angels: Servants of God, sort of "sub forms" of Him. His essence is within them. They do what He wants them to, but can also be called upon as facets of Him focused on a particular purpose or idea. (< "I like the idea" territory again.) I need to do a LOT more research on them before I'll be totally set in my beliefs about them.

- Food, etc. blessings: I think anybody (who follows Him, anyway) can ask God to "bless" their food, drink, or whatever. I do not think that "just anybody" can call God (in any form) into anything; I think only the priests, etc. who have been trained to do so can. (Example, the Eucharist.) I think it would be kind of disrespectful to do so anyway; I think the Eucharist is an exception to that but I'm not 100% sure why I feel that way.

- Baptism: Not sure about my beliefs/feelings about this at all. Questions/discussion would be muchly appreciated.

- Evangelism, proselytizing: Useless. I believe that YHWH calls to Him those who are meant to follow Him, in the form that best suits Him (be that Judaism, Christianity, Islam, or other YHWH-worshiping religions, or none of the above). I think there's Scripture in the Gospels supporting this, but I can't remember the exact wording the preacher used and BibleGateway is not availing me at the moment. If any can help with evidence to this or to the contrary, it would be appreciated.  

[Nines19]

Rectified issues:
To be updated when there are issues and they become rectified.  

[Nines19]

Recent experiences/thoughts:
To be updated with experiences and thoughts about my path.  

[Nines19]

Interesting/good points:

On original sin:

rmcdra

Original Sin - The state of being that we all start at as being separated from God. Both Christian Gnostics and mainstream Christians agree that this state exists and it is not something that is inherently wrong with the person, it's just assumed to be a fact of life. It's an explanation for why we are not connected with God, and specifically in the gnostic tradition why we are ignorant of God being within us. It's nothing more. The exact cause of Original Sin is debatable between Christian Gnostics and mainline Christians because of the acceptance of differing creation stories. In various Christian denominations, it is believed that the sacrament of Baptism is required to remove this state from our core, others believe that the acceptance of Jesus through is sufficient to remove it. I personally believe that once you recognize that God is within you, then Original Sin has been removed.

Thankees. smile  

[rmcdra]

Why do you think Mass will improve one's relationship with God under the right mindset, if you don't mind me asking?

What defines a priest in your path? Is there proper initiation, such as Holy Orders or some other method, or could anyone that has the proper knowledge of how to perform various "blessings" can be a priest?

I'm curious about your opinion on original sin since it is related to baptism. Does it exist as defined by one of the mainstream denominations, (Catholics, Protestants and Eastern Orthodox each have different takes on this concept) or do you understand it in a different way that is special for your path?
The mainstream stance on baptism would be the equivalent of circumcision in Judaism. It serves a two-fold purpose, it cleans away original sin and all past sins before becoming Christian and it is a declaration of becoming a child of YHWH, i.e. becoming a Christian.

I hope these questions help you in building your path.  

[Nines19]

rmcdra

Why do you think Mass will improve one's relationship with God under the right mindset, if you don't mind me asking?

Not necessarily "will," but can. At least, in my experience. Possibly just from the mentality that one is participating in an experience of God with all these other believers. If this makes sense, it seems (to me) the equivalent of going to a concert instead of listening to the CD at home. You've got all these people around you that feel the same or similar to the way you do and it enhances the experience.

rmcdra

What defines a priest in your path? Is there proper initiation, such as Holy Orders or some other method, or could anyone that has the proper knowledge of how to perform various "blessings" can be a priest?

That's a tough one. Mostly because, as I see it, my path is mine and doesn't necessarily apply to anyone else. Priests are people (possibly specifically male?) who have been trained to serve their respective deity in whatever their tradition teaches as the best or proper way.

rmcdra

I'm curious about your opinion on original sin since it is related to baptism. Does it exist as defined by one of the mainstream denominations, (Catholics, Protestants and Eastern Orthodox each have different takes on this concept) or do you understand it in a different way that is special for your path?

I think the way you have it defined in the PM you sent makes a lot of sense with me. Would you mind if I reposted that part of it?

rmcdra

The mainstream stance on baptism would be the equivalent of circumcision in Judaism. It serves a two-fold purpose, it cleans away original sin and all past sins before becoming Christian and it is a declaration of becoming a child of YHWH, i.e. becoming a Christian.

Hmm, okay. I always favored the idea of getting baptized after you already understood and accepted Christ, instead of baptism at birth. Especially looking at it from that point of view, it seems, if not IS, extremely unfair to the child in question.

rmcdra

I hope these questions help you in building your path.

Thank you. smile  

[Nines19]

rmcdra

You're welcome to use that info dump I sent you.

Thank you.  

[Ashley the Bee]

Nines19

- Food, etc. blessings: I think anybody (who follows Him, anyway) can ask God to "bless" their food, drink, or whatever. I do not think that "just anybody" can call God (in any form) into anything; I think only the priests, etc. who have been trained to do so can. (Example, the Eucharist.) I think it would be kind of disrespectful to do so anyway; I think the Eucharist is an exception to that but I'm not 100% sure why I feel that way.

I was wondering about this part. =)

You say you think only priests who have been "trained" may call YHWH into a thing. Do you really mean "thing", or do you mean specifically food, or even more specifically bread and wine?

I'm also wonder what you mean when you say, "I think the Eucharist is an exception". An exception in what way? That anyone can call YHWH's spirit into bread and wine for celebrating the Eucharist, or something else?  

[Nines19]

Ashley the Bee

Nines19

- Food, etc. blessings: I think anybody (who follows Him, anyway) can ask God to "bless" their food, drink, or whatever. I do not think that "just anybody" can call God (in any form) into anything; I think only the priests, etc. who have been trained to do so can. (Example, the Eucharist.) I think it would be kind of disrespectful to do so anyway; I think the Eucharist is an exception to that but I'm not 100% sure why I feel that way.

I was wondering about this part. =)

You say you think only priests who have been "trained" may call YHWH into a thing. Do you really mean "thing", or do you mean specifically food, or even more specifically bread and wine?

I'm also wonder what you mean when you say, "I think the Eucharist is an exception". An exception in what way? That anyone can call YHWH's spirit into bread and wine for celebrating the Eucharist, or something else?

By "thing" I mean, well, any thing. Any object. Though I don't think (Christian) priests are trained to do so except for the Eucharist/bread and wine.

(To clarify, although I am not sure if this is accurate, when I say "Eucharist" I mean the bread-and-wine of Communion tradition.)

An exception to being disrespectful.
The thinking of disrespect actually began with a thread on Wicca where scorplett mentioned something about invocations being different between the "actual" and "symbolic" Great Rite, and I thought (and posted) that it would seem disrespectful to the deities to invoke them into objects (say, a blade and chalice) the same way they would be invoked into people (say, a HP and HPS).
I don't think calling God into the bread and wine for Communion is disrespectful in the same way. I think it may have something to do with my understanding of the tale of the Last Supper, which is influenced by my Catholic background, but I'm not entirely certain beyond that why I feel that way.  

[Ashley the Bee]

Nines19

By "thing" I mean, well, any thing. Any object. Though I don't think (Christian) priests are trained to do so except for the Eucharist/bread and wine.

(To clarify, although I am not sure if this is accurate, when I say "Eucharist" I mean the bread-and-wine of Communion tradition.)

*nod**nod* That's as I've been using it as well.

Now, what I wonder is, in the OT, YHWH was (or seemed to be?) against idolatry, so I wonder... if a priest did call YHWH into, say, a statue or ... anything, really, do you think he'd actually go?

Was the idolatry a problem because it was other deities, or because it making an idol?

Nines19

An exception to being disrespectful.

Ah, okay.

Nines19

The thinking of disrespect actually began with a thread on Wicca where scorplett mentioned something about invocations being different between the "actual" and "symbolic" Great Rite, and I thought (and posted) that it would seem disrespectful to the deities to invoke them into objects (say, a blade and chalice) the same way they would be invoked into people (say, a HP and HPS).
I don't think calling God into the bread and wine for Communion is disrespectful in the same way. I think it may have something to do with my understanding of the tale of the Last Supper, which is influenced by my Catholic background, but I'm not entirely certain beyond that why I feel that way.

Ah ah... yes, I see. I see.

I guess I might say, in the Catholic tradition, it's less that YHWH "enters" the bread and wine and more that the bread and wine undergo transubstantiation and become the Yeshua in body and divinity.

So then I wonder, do you view it differently? If so, in what way?  

[rmcdra]

Nines19

rmcdra

Why do you think Mass will improve one's relationship with God under the right mindset, if you don't mind me asking?

Not necessarily "will," but can. At least, in my experience. Possibly just from the mentality that one is participating in an experience of God with all these other believers. If this makes sense, it seems (to me) the equivalent of going to a concert instead of listening to the CD at home. You've got all these people around you that feel the same or similar to the way you do and it enhances the experience.

I get what you mean. You know thinking back in retrospect, for my online meetings with my gnostic group, I might want to set up my computer space to keep me focused. I like your analogy by the way.

Nines19

rmcdra

What defines a priest in your path? Is there proper initiation, such as Holy Orders or some other method, or could anyone that has the proper knowledge of how to perform various "blessings" can be a priest?

That's a tough one. Mostly because, as I see it, my path is mine and doesn't necessarily apply to anyone else. Priests are people (possibly specifically male?) who have been trained to serve their respective deity in whatever their tradition teaches as the best or proper way.

Ah okay. I wasn't sure if you had any plans for others to potentially follow your path or not. Or even to train others in your magical tradition when you felt the calling to do so.

Nines19

rmcdra

I'm curious about your opinion on original sin since it is related to baptism. Does it exist as defined by one of the mainstream denominations, (Catholics, Protestants and Eastern Orthodox each have different takes on this concept) or do you understand it in a different way that is special for your path?

I think the way you have it defined in the PM you sent makes a lot of sense with me. Would you mind if I reposted that part of it?

You're quite welcome. Feel free to use any part of it you want but do understand that it might need revision and is a summary more than anything.

Yeah that was hard trying to define Original Sin mainly because I had issues with this concept as well. Each denomination seems to have a different take on it but I think I have a pretty generalized definition that explains the concept without invoking the misuse of this element of the Christian faith.

Nines19

rmcdra

The mainstream stance on baptism would be the equivalent of circumcision in Judaism. It serves a two-fold purpose, it cleans away original sin and all past sins before becoming Christian and it is a declaration of becoming a child of YHWH, i.e. becoming a Christian.

Hmm, okay. I always favored the idea of getting baptized after you already understood and accepted Christ, instead of baptism at birth. Especially looking at it from that point of view, it seems, if not IS, extremely unfair to the child in question.

My fiancee/wife and I would be in agreement with this. When we do have children, I would love for my children to be Christian but I can't force them into such a commitment because that would violate agape.

Nines19

rmcdra

I hope these questions help you in building your path.

Thank you. smile

^-^  

[rmcdra]

Two other questions I have:

Do you consider the non-canonical gospels as primary or secondary sources and why?

There's a subtle distinction between evangelizing and proselytizing I'm curious if you see it too?  

[bondage bunnie]

Quick word on Idolatry. It was forbidden for 2 reasons according to modern judeo/christian theism.

1. God is responsible for all things existing, by placing your focus on a single "thing" you loose the focus that God is everywhere and everything. In essence your making up the fact that I can talk to God if I make this statue to it. Seeing as God is omni-present, omni-potent and ex-nihilo your basically telling God you don't believe it by making an object to represent it.

2. According to the legend set forth in Bible, Jewish God YHWH (later the Christian God as well) shunned the practices of the other religions at the time and picked a certain group of followers to make a new society/ culture/ religion in the manner it specifically dictated to it's followers. What it told them was do not follow the practices of neolithic religions.

Final summation idolatry is openly practiced in both Judaism and Christianity. There are specific places of worship, and symbols, and rituals to those symbols; are there not?