Mercy, Vengeance, Justice, and Divine Mandate

[Fiddlers Green]

Does your religion demand Justice?
Does it mandate mercy?

Are you required to seek redress in a specific way over certain crimes against you or your gods? Are there certain slights that only your divinities are allowed to avenge, or that are considered so taboo they must be left for divine attentions?

In short, how does your religion regulate, or not, seeking justice?  

[Gho the Girl]

Fiddlers Green

Does your religion demand Justice?
Does it mandate mercy?

Are you required to seek redress in a specific way over certain crimes against you or your gods? Are there certain slights that only your divinities are allowed to avenge, or that are considered so taboo they must be left for divine attentions?

In short, how does your religion regulate, or not, seeking justice?

In my path, I must uphold justice, but I am not to get lost in judgement of others. I must be just in my self and my own actions, and in how I act towards others. If others fall to unjust actions, I may point it out if such can be done in a loving way, but otherwise, vengeance is not mine to take.  

[IH_Zero]

While Ma'at is justice, Ma'at is also mercy. Most things that would call for justice and revenge are those that invite isfet (destruction, uncreation, imbalance, and all that sort of stuff) into one's life, and the world at large. Any act of revenge would simply invite more isfet into other's lives, and the world.

A few of the negative confessions applicable to such a situation:
-I have not caused pain
-I have not caused tears
-I have not made anyone to suffer
-I have not done any harm

So, we are called to uphold Ma'at in our own lives, but are called to practice mercy on those who bring isfet upon ours. Living under the principles of Ma'at will counteract isfet, and hold it at bay.

This does not mean one can't go through other measures though. Taking legal action against one who has harmed you, or similar, would not be seen as an act inviting isfet. Just taking justice into one's own hands is not really the best course of action under Ma'at.  

[AniMajor]

AngryRobotsInc., just a quick question: is Ma'at like in the feather, or is it a different kind of Ma'at?  

[IH_Zero]

AniMajor

AngryRobotsInc., just a quick question: is Ma'at like in the feather, or is it a different kind of Ma'at?

Ma'at is represented by a feather, which one's heart is weighed against in Duat. However, that isn't the entirety of Ma'at. Ma'at is also a goddess and a concept. Ma'at is order, essentially, though it is more indepth than just that one word can really convey.  

[AniMajor]

AngryRobotsInc.

AniMajor

AngryRobotsInc., just a quick question: is Ma'at like in the feather, or is it a different kind of Ma'at?

Ma'at is represented by a feather, which one's heart is weighed against in Duat. However, that isn't the entirety of Ma'at. Ma'at is also a goddess and a concept. Ma'at is order, essentially, though it is more indepth than just that one word can really convey.

Ah, right. I just wasn't sure I was thinking of the same thing.  

[Wrath of Ezekiel]

It's interesting in Hinduism that bad karma can be seen as "sin". And one of the biggest "sins" in Hinduism is to not forgive a person or to react out in revenge, vengeance, or anger.

My pundit gave a good example of this. His mother-in-law accidentally touched the car of the person next to her in a parking lot. The owner of said car tried to demand more than what is needed to repair the scrape, thus "sinning". However, the pundit and the owner worked out a compromise where my pundit agreed to give $75. However, he only had four $20 bills and lashed out in anger, "here take an extra $5!". Because he acted out like that, he also "sinned".  

[Fiddlers Green]

AngryRobotsInc.

While Ma'at is justice, Ma'at is also mercy. Most things that would call for justice and revenge are those that invite isfet (destruction, uncreation, imbalance, and all that sort of stuff) into one's life, and the world at large. Any act of revenge would simply invite more isfet into other's lives, and the world.

A few of the negative confessions applicable to such a situation:
-I have not caused pain
-I have not caused tears
-I have not made anyone to suffer
-I have not done any harm

So, we are called to uphold Ma'at in our own lives, but are called to practice mercy on those who bring isfet upon ours. Living under the principles of Ma'at will counteract isfet, and hold it at bay.

This does not mean one can't go through other measures though. Taking legal action against one who has harmed you, or similar, would not be seen as an act inviting isfet. Just taking justice into one's own hands is not really the best course of action under Ma'at.

What if the punishment delivered by the legal system promotes isfet?  

[TeaDidikai]

AngryRobotsInc.

AniMajor

AngryRobotsInc., just a quick question: is Ma'at like in the feather, or is it a different kind of Ma'at?

Ma'at is represented by a feather, which one's heart is weighed against in Duat. However, that isn't the entirety of Ma'at. Ma'at is also a goddess and a concept. Ma'at is order, essentially, though it is more indepth than just that one word can really convey.

Ma'at is also a demon that can devour souls... it's interesting to look at the really old source texts within Kemetic tradition and beyond. 3nodding

True Colours of Destiny

It's interesting in Hinduism that bad karma can be seen as "sin". And one of the biggest "sins" in Hinduism is to not forgive a person or to react out in revenge, vengeance, or anger.

My pundit gave a good example of this. His mother-in-law accidentally touched the car of the person next to her in a parking lot. The owner of said car tried to demand more than what is needed to repair the scrape, thus "sinning". However, the pundit and the owner worked out a compromise where my pundit agreed to give $75. However, he only had four $20 bills and lashed out in anger, "here take an extra $5!". Because he acted out like that, he also "sinned".

How strange. From where does this concept of Karma come from? Why is there no mention of Dharma present?

For me, it depends on the slight, the gravity there of and very specific contextual factors.

99 Times out of a hundred, a small crossing is enough to square the situation. It's likely best compared to a mini-mental Satanic Rite of Destruction, unless the slight was made not only against me, but against mine and the gods.  

[IH_Zero]

Fiddlers Green

What if the punishment delivered by the legal system promotes isfet?

Hrm, that's a difficult one. I'd say that if you knew that it would, and did it anyway, then it'd be on you. However, if you didn't know, it wouldn't be as big of a blow. I'd have to look more into it, though.

TeaDidikai

Ma'at is also a demon that can devour souls... it's interesting to look at the really old source texts within Kemetic tradition and beyond. 3nodding

Yep. It's really interesting to look into how some of the Names have had the perceptions about them change. Set's another one that has some big shifts in how he's viewed.  

[TeaDidikai]

AngryRobotsInc.

Yep. It's really interesting to look into how some of the Names have had the perceptions about them change. Set's another one that has some big shifts in how he's viewed.

Do you ever feel like there is a lot of revisionism amongst Kemetic pagans?  

[IH_Zero]

TeaDidikai

AngryRobotsInc.

Yep. It's really interesting to look into how some of the Names have had the perceptions about them change. Set's another one that has some big shifts in how he's viewed.

Do you ever feel like there is a lot of revisionism amongst Kemetic pagans?

I do. I think a lot of people are also operating off of...hm, what's the best way to put this...old revisionism, I guess. The ideas of the Names that were heavily affected by Greek beliefs, and the like. Isis of the Thousand Names, Bast as a fluffy goddess of sex and drunken debauchery, and whatnot.

The people who haven't put a lot of thought and research into this tend to not see Ma'at and isfet as what they are, rather as something akin to the Christian idea of sin and...whatever the opposite of sin is. They also tend to see the Names as very set ideas rather than the complex deities that they are.  

[Fiddlers Green]

Oh, another side note...
How do your faiths view political authority?
Is it sacrosanct?
Is it irrelevant to you, as in divine law trumping the law of man?
When the two are in conflict, is there a specific way in which your religion encourages you to reconcile them?  

[TeaDidikai]

AngryRobotsInc.

I do. I think a lot of people are also operating off of...hm, what's the best way to put this...old revisionism, I guess. The ideas of the Names that were heavily affected by Greek beliefs, and the like. Isis of the Thousand Names, Bast as a fluffy goddess of sex and drunken debauchery, and whatnot.

The people who haven't put a lot of thought and research into this tend to not see Ma'at and isfet as what they are, rather as something akin to the Christian idea of sin and...whatever the opposite of sin is. They also tend to see the Names as very set ideas rather than the complex deities that they are.

Fair enough. Thanks for the insight.

Fiddlers Green

Oh, another side note...
How do your faiths view political authority?
Is it sacrosanct?
Is it irrelevant to you, as in divine law trumping the law of man?
When the two are in conflict, is there a specific way in which your religion encourages you to reconcile them?

Speaking as someone who was raised along side of an autonomous legal tradition. Spiritually speaking, Rroma legal traditions, with their relation to the spiritual contamination and cleansing have 100% more weight than non-Rroma authority.  

[0ttercha0s]

Fiddlers Green

Does your religion demand Justice?
Does it mandate mercy?

Are you required to seek redress in a specific way over certain crimes against you or your gods? Are there certain slights that only your divinities are allowed to avenge, or that are considered so taboo they must be left for divine attentions?

In short, how does your religion regulate, or not, seeking justice?

It does, but you must wait to carry it out yourself. Wait for the law of the land to do so, and if it doesn't, then you may do it yourself. I follow Tyr in the norse pantheon. He is the god of law, justice, and retribution. I spacialize in retribution. If somebody does unto another something that harms without implication, then I or another will make sure they pay. Whether it be directly or indirectly.