Welcome to Gaia! ::

"Seriousness is the refuge of the shallow."

You'd be surprised by the amount of homoeroticism you can find in a history book. Not to mention classic pieces like Homer's Iliad and the Odyssey, and other myths, stories and legends.

For example - have you seen Oliver Stone's film Alexander? Notice anything about Alexander and Hephaistion? Or, say, Bagoas? smile Yup. They were very close. Alexander often compared his and Hephaistions relationship to that of Achilles and Patrocles - who, as you may or may not know, were sort of beyond friendly. Though depending on who you ask, they may be a pair of reeeeeally close friends, or practically as lovey-dovey as a newlywed couple.

The relationship of Gilgamesh and Enkidu in the Epic of Gilgamesh has also been debated. I haven't personally read it just yet, but I'd like to.

Anyhow, discuss! Notice anything interesting? Maybe in history, or literature classes? Did you cry as much as I did watching Alexander?

- Oscar Wilde.

"Seriousness is the refuge of the shallow."

I think there's always been issues like that, when a country starts to mingle with another...a similar thing happened to the Persian empire, they were invaded by the Arabs who brought Islam and new sets of laws, values etc.

For example, many of the emperors had male courtesans (do you still call them that if they're male?) in their harem. Homosexuality or at least bisexuality (most people back in the day were bi) was common in the ancient world...

- Oscar Wilde.

I didn't see the Alexander movie and I don't really plan on it but I did start reading a book about Alexander called Fire From Heaven by Mary Renault. It's about Alexander as he grows up and talks about his close relationship with Hephaistion. I wrote some fic for it ninja The second book she wrote, The Persian Boy, is about Bagoas, but I haven't read it.

Yeah, I know of the red tie. (Which is part of why any arguement for Phoenix's tie being red instead of pink because it's more "manly" makes me want to giggle. At the back of my mind it always "If the game was set it a different time, a couple of decades back, this would be even more hilarious.")

Who's this Bagoas you keep talking about? Somehow, I've managed to never hear of him before.

Ohhh. (I don't know, eh! But I didn't know of Bagoas.)
I'm reading Ovid's Metamorphoses right now, awesome way to brush up on my classical mythology, with a strangely readable translation compared to the average Greek or Roman classic. (Seriously, if you've read/tried to read the Illiad or the Odyssey, you'll know what I'm talking about in terms of regular levels of readability.)
Anyway, back on point, book ten is, I kid you not, thematically almost exactly one quarter about the "boys whom the gods have loved." It had a short tale I hadn't heard before, of Cyparissus.
(To summarise, strangely stupid boy, "darling of Phoebus Apollo", liked cavorting around the forests with a sacred stag, accidentally kills stag with a spear, Apollo attempts to console him, Cyparissus continues to wail and cry over the stag, asks to be left to mourn 'til the end of time, gets turned into a cyprus tree, Apollo is kind of sad.) I read it pretty shallowly, but I'm seeing really crazy subtext to the whole thing now that I've thought about it enough to condense it. ._. WTF-levels of odd. Although it's the Metamorphoses, so I suppose it's pretty par the course.
Aside from that, there's Ganymede's scrap of a story and then that of Hyacinthus, which I'm sure you know already. Although Ovid's version of the Hyacinthus story was actually emotive enough to make me kind of sad. D: (As opposed to the average "Oh, it's a mortal who hung around with a god and died, how unusual.")
Ovid also throws in this bit at the start about how after Eurydice was sent back to the underworld again, Orpheus was so bereft that he refused the love of women and took up the Thracian practice of sleeping with young/immature males. (This was to bring in the setting for Orpheus singing about "boys whom the gods have loved and girls who have been inspired to a frenzy of lawless passion", so it was, but my eyebrows still went up upon reading it.)
And yes, the translator's for serious notes on the poem also sum this up more succintly than I at the start of book 10, if you were wondering.
There's other random scraps about lovers and things in different books, but I honestly couldn't be bothered rooting them out from in between everything else. (Would make no sense at all without context of the story they're lifted from, anyway.)

...There's no real way to put all that in TL;DR form, is there? In any case, I am very content in my ownership of a Penguin Classics version of the poem. (Back nearer to the source of mythological tales, whoo yeah.) And someone could really make a comic out of the Hyacinthus story. Allowing for the fact that throwing discus was done naked in Ancient Greece, though.


I actually almost went and made a prompt in the PW kink meme over the red tie, once. XD Then I decided against because I hadn't filled out the equivalent number of requests to justify making a prompt.

Well, I don't know whether or not schools are supposed to bring up the subject/teach it where you are, but in the school I attend, it's pretty much at the teacher's discretion whether they mention/bring up homosexual themes when it's relevant to the lesson. *Le shrug.* It came up at some point in English, my teacher wanted to discuss whatever it was, but she got frustrated and gave up.
My religion teacher, I remember, told us to go see I Now Pronounce You Chuck And Larry - a terrible, terrible movie, but I can understand her good intentions.
Anyway!

You need to get your hands on some small book of Greek myths or something, dear! Srsly, it's like a mythological soap opera/drama, only far, far better.
This is what the history for kids website says about Greek friendships. Pftft, I think I love it, if only for using such matter of fact language.

I am reminded of Hamlet (everything relates back to Hamlet for me these days, we're covering it right now) offhandedly calling Horatio "o Damon dear" when they're talking about the play in the play.
More on Hamlet later, yo.

The only thing I remember about the Epic of Gilgamesh is the sorta-yaoi. Kinda sad to admit, but I did read it two whole years ago. I remember the Gilgamesh and Enkido wrestling over something when they met and Gilgamesh talking for pages upon pages when Enkido dies. crying

As for the Iliad- Achilles's morning when Patricales dies is really sad and disturbing. After my research paper two years ago, i would definitely say they had some sort of romantic connection. There was entire army of Greek fighters that fought along side with another man they loved. They were admired throughout Greece. They fought amazingly since they each had someone to care about. heart

If you're curious, the research paper was on the Don't Ask, Don't Tell policy.

"Seriousness is the refuge of the shallow."

Uh, race and sexuality are completely different things. If you dislike homosexuality you're not racist, you're homophobic and to an extent, sexist.

Anyway, back on topic, the actors almost always wore masks so their lips didn't really touch :<

- Oscar Wilde.