Signists? WTF?

[TeaDidikai]

So I was introduced to a new form of ]Racism* last weekend.

Apparently, not having the right Sun Sign can make you an inferior person.
It may be important to note that I'm not a huge fan of the calendar and styling of Hellenic Astrology, though I am moderately educated in it (My family practices a different kind of astrology).

I was sitting around our would-be bonfire, when someone said something about Geminis. Gemini is my sun sign. When I looked at them funny, they quickly corrected themselves by saying it was Gemini Men who give Gemini's a bad name.

So... adding sexism makes it okay? I was staring blankly at my friends who I thought would say something... they patted the gal on the back and nodded.

Clearly this is by definition racism.

I've got a few things swimming through my head.

1) WHO THE ******** TAUGHT THIS CHICK ASTROLOGY 101?!?

People do a lot with their Sun Sign because it's the easiest one to pin down. All you have to know is the day you were born on. Boom. You know your sun sign. Doesn't matter where you are in the world, what time of day, it's quick and easy. Many other characteristics in one's chart, such as their Rising Sign have more of a direct influence on a person's personality through their life within Astrological Thought.

2) If you had replaced Gemini with "Black People" it wouldn't have been said. So how do you educate someone that they are holding to racist attitudes when this concept of racism is so far afield from what they are used to?

3) When did simply expressing a single characteristic, and not the action itself, become a sign of inferiority? When did it become acceptable to consider "different" as "wrong" when it comes to branding 1/12 of the human population based on where the sun was in the sky when they were born?

And finally, what the ******** is wrong with being a Gemini?

*see definition 2:B listing characteristics with note that the time of birth creates characteristics in one's Natal Chart.  

[Chaos Blue]

That's a new one on me, too.
Considering the attributes and traits of certain signs are really subjective to the individual. So that what she said was probably just nonsense. It's not really something to get too upset over, especially if you know that it's not really true.  

[maenad nuri]

I can understand not liking certain traits that certain signs have. But I think that's a new level of inanity and ignorance.

Also, yeah, sun signs can mean very little. I'm an Aries. I'm not all that competitive, brave or what have you -- with the exception of impulsive.

I'm not sure when I was born during the day, so I'm not quite sure what my rising sign is.  

[Violet Song jat Shariff]

maenad nuri

I can understand not liking certain traits that certain signs have.

This, for the most part.
Although I have had some horrible experiences with Taurus folks and that makes me wary of a person if/when I find out their sign. I know I shouldn't sweatdrop . I know not all Taurus folks are the same. It's just...due to the way I was ******** over, I can't help but feel like I should be cautious redface redface .  

[TeaDidikai]

Chaos Blue

It's not really something to get too upset over, especially if you know that it's not really true.

I'm bothered by the attitude.

When you stop thinking about people as people, and start thinking about people as "Those Other People", be it to put them on a pedestal or to hate them, you indulge patterns that devalue individual's worth and accept that your personal prejudice is justified.

I'm sickened when I see this in my community.

maenad nuri

Also, yeah, sun signs can mean very little. I'm an Aries. I'm not all that competitive, brave or what have you -- with the exception of impulsive.

I put a bit of stock into my Natal Chart, more having to do with Mercury ******** with me.

Quote:

I'm not sure when I was born during the day, so I'm not quite sure what my rising sign is.

sweatdrop What did I do with that chart...  

[TeaDidikai]

Violet Song jat Shariff

maenad nuri

I can understand not liking certain traits that certain signs have.

This, for the most part.
Although I have had some horrible experiences with Taurus folks and that makes me wary of a person if/when I find out their sign. I know I shouldn't sweatdrop . I know not all Taurus folks are the same. It's just...due to the way I was ******** over, I can't help but feel like I should be cautious redface redface .

Okay. Explain this to me. Seriously- I don't understand it.

What about the fact that a person was born in April/May makes you nervous?  

[Violet Song jat Shariff]

TeaDidikai

Violet Song jat Shariff

maenad nuri

I can understand not liking certain traits that certain signs have.

This, for the most part.
Although I have had some horrible experiences with Taurus folks and that makes me wary of a person if/when I find out their sign. I know I shouldn't sweatdrop . I know not all Taurus folks are the same. It's just...due to the way I was ******** over, I can't help but feel like I should be cautious redface redface .

Okay. Explain this to me. Seriously- I don't understand it.

What about the fact that a person was born in April/May makes you nervous?

The happenings are not something I wish to discuss on an open forum.

Not simply the fact that they were born in that date range...I suppose I see other similarities between the two folks besides their signs. But for some reason that is/was the one that stuck out to me the most sweatdrop .

I don't know. I know it's a silly way to look at things. I don't quite know how to undo it though.  

[aoijea23487]

i've never heard of people hating against people of particular signs. then again, i'm still very, very much a newb when it comes to stuff like taking astrology seriously.

i admit that i'm pretty much ignorant about legit astrology.

i did lurk the intarwebs a few weeks ago, however, and found a site that calculated my natal chart [though idk how accurate it is]. it gave me sun, moon, rising sun, the former nine planets' positions, and something called N. Node. plus descriptions as to what each position means. and a picture detailing what my chart looks like.

my sun sign is fifteen degrees sagittarius. rising sign is three degrees pices, and my moon sign is 29 degrees leo.

... what is an N. Node?

EDIT:
i remember what triggered my astrology-find. i was reading The Way of Four by Deborah Lipp. she was talking about astrology in terms of the four elements fire, earth, air, and water, and she was talking about rising signs and planet stuffs, and i was lost.  

[Chaos Blue]

TeaDidikai

Chaos Blue

It's not really something to get too upset over, especially if you know that it's not really true.

I'm bothered by the attitude.

When you stop thinking about people as people, and start thinking about people as "Those Other People", be it to put them on a pedestal or to hate them, you indulge patterns that devalue individual's worth and accept that your personal prejudice is justified.

I'm sickened when I see this in my community.

I see.
This is true. Come to think of it, my mom is a tad like this. She's very wary of Leos. My dad is one and it didn't work out. Then when she figures out someone is a Leo she starts reading into the personality and whatnot, and it's somewhat annoying, especially considering my boyfriend is a Leo, and nothing like my father. like I said, it's really subjective. And it's sort of hypocritical since one of her best friends is a Leo.
I think she's a "Sign Compatibility" person. She reads daily horoscope stuff (which I tend to think is junk 9 times outta ten) She's a Capricorn herself. I'm an Aquarius.

She tends to get into sign characteristics and gets hypercritical if she's upset at somebody enough. Does that count as signism or just reading too much into it?  

[maenad nuri]

I dunno Tea, where is that chart you made. I think my mother said I was born at noon. I always thought it was 7am, but I could be wrong  

[TeaDidikai]

Violet Song jat Shariff

I suppose I see other similarities between the two folks besides their signs. But for some reason that is/was the one that stuck out to me the most sweatdrop .

What about it stands out?

Quote:

I don't know. I know it's a silly way to look at things. I don't quite know how to undo it though.

I wish I could help. I think the way I would personally go about it would be to pick another characteristic, maybe even one you share with them, and then replace "Taurus" with that until you break the habit and acknowledge that being a "Taurus" or a person with "Brown Hair" etc isn't what make them dicks. ~shrugs~

Chaos Blue

Does that count as signism or just reading too much into it?

I think that would count as signism. To prejudge Leo's or judge them after the fact for it is pretty bad in my book.

It would be like finding out your friend who passes suddenly isn't what they pass as and then mistreating them for it, they could be another ethnicity and pass for your own, transgendered individuals who look like the gender they are seeking to transition to etc.

Illiezeulette

... what is an N. Node?

The simple explanation is that it's half of the feature that calculates the axis used to measure the relationship between the Sun, Moon and Earth at the time of birth.

Basically, it's (along with the South Node) are positions on the Moon which are used to measure part of an ellipse.

Math. Complicated, pain in the a** math is why it takes forever for me to write a chart.

If you're looking for what it means, basically it measures the things in life you have to work at (as opposed to the things in life that come naturally)

maenad nuri

I dunno Tea, where is that chart you made. I think my mother said I was born at noon. I always thought it was 7am, but I could be wrong

It was a rhetorical question when I asked. Now that I have searched my craft closet, it's an honest to goodness question. What the hell happened to it?!  

[Nines19]

Violet Song jat Shariff

TeaDidikai

Violet Song jat Shariff

maenad nuri

I can understand not liking certain traits that certain signs have.

This, for the most part.
Although I have had some horrible experiences with Taurus folks and that makes me wary of a person if/when I find out their sign. I know I shouldn't sweatdrop . I know not all Taurus folks are the same. It's just...due to the way I was ******** over, I can't help but feel like I should be cautious redface redface .

Okay. Explain this to me. Seriously- I don't understand it.

What about the fact that a person was born in April/May makes you nervous?

The happenings are not something I wish to discuss on an open forum.

Not simply the fact that they were born in that date range...I suppose I see other similarities between the two folks besides their signs. But for some reason that is/was the one that stuck out to me the most sweatdrop .

I don't know. I know it's a silly way to look at things. I don't quite know how to undo it though.

You should meet my Gram. She's probably the reason that "Taurus" makes me think "warm and earthy, and probably with good food". She's been known to tell you what she thinks no matter how harsh it is, but she's also been known to make friends with almost everyone she meets.

(It should be noted that while I automatically think of my Gram when someone mentions the Taurus sun sign, I don't actually believe that all born under this sign are like that. I've known enough people of my own sun sign that were very, very different from both myself and each other that I know better than to think that sign = personality, if nothing else.)

I do understand what you're saying, though, Violet. It's like me and certain names. I've had bad experiences with people named certain names and I kind of attach an illogical wariness of anyone new I meet with either of those names. The names didn't do anything wrong, and I'm reasonably certain that there are people out there with those names who are perfectly good people, and it's not like I stay away from people with these names. I just have an automatic tendency to be wary of them - "Is So-and-so going to try and hurt me like the other So-and-so did?"
(On the other hand, I tend to attach unfounded expectations to people with names I like/have had good experiences with. Which isn't very fair to the person, and I'm generally let down, but I get over it and they never know.)

Tea - I hope you said something to the group about it. That's not exactly the kind of thing you're known to take lightly, and it was very insulting.
If that had been me, the next thing out of my mouth after the Gemini men bit would have been, "Oh, so I'd be a bad person if I had a p***s, because of my birthday. Good to know."
(Though personally the sexism bit pushes my buttons more than the sign, but obviously ymv.)  

[TeaDidikai]

Nines19

Tea - I hope you said something to the group about it. That's not exactly the kind of thing you're known to take lightly, and it was very insulting.
If that had been me, the next thing out of my mouth after the Gemini men bit would have been, "Oh, so I'd be a bad person if I had a p***s, because of my birthday. Good to know."
(Though personally the sexism bit pushes my buttons more than the sign, but obviously ymv.)

Pretty much. It took me a moment because I was completely in shock.

These aren't some idiots I met off the street at a coffee shop, these are people I respect and care about. They ate a little crow, but it was the kind of "Oh yeah, I shouldn't say that s**t because it ticks her off" not "Holy s**t, this is a kind of racism and it's wrong!"  

[Nines19]

TeaDidikai

Nines19

Tea - I hope you said something to the group about it. That's not exactly the kind of thing you're known to take lightly, and it was very insulting.
If that had been me, the next thing out of my mouth after the Gemini men bit would have been, "Oh, so I'd be a bad person if I had a p***s, because of my birthday. Good to know."
(Though personally the sexism bit pushes my buttons more than the sign, but obviously ymv.)

Pretty much. It took me a moment because I was completely in shock.

These aren't some idiots I met off the street at a coffee shop, these are people I respect and care about. They ate a little crow, but it was the kind of "Oh yeah, I shouldn't say that s**t because it ticks her off" not "Holy s**t, this is a kind of racism and it's wrong!"

I think that's one of the hardest situations to be in. It's one thing when it's people you don't know and you can just say what's what, but it's another when you have a background with the people and you have to sort of figure out how to say, "Hey, that offends me, and it's possible you should have known it would," (and possibly also, "Hey, you're wrong") without having it sound like, "Hey, you're an idiot."

(One step further would be when you're a stickler for correcting people and it's people you can't correct, for whatever reason. But that may or may not only happen to arrogant know-it-all kids like me.)  

[TeaDidikai]

After they say "Oops, sorry." it would have been a violation of hospitality to draw it out, no matter how much I wanted to beat it into their heads.