Crowley

[Mahi_Kali]

Gerald Gardner himself was a student of Aleister Crowley
If Crowley hadnt Done so many of his writings the world
of the occult would be much less than it is today

Often peoples reasoning of disdain are He was racist/sexist
Well who wasnt back then

Regardless of what people think of him
He has been a invalueble contributer to the
occult

For a List of his writings
and those studying under him
www.hermetic.com

Not only does this site give info on astral travel
Summoning your gods
But it is free
No sign up
No forum
Just free  

[TeaDidikai]

Mahi_Kali

Gerald Gardner himself was a student of Aleister Crowley

Gardner was a student of a lot of folks.

Quote:

If Crowley hadnt Done so many of his writings the world
of the occult would be much less than it is today

Really? I ask because last I checked, English speaking countries didn't have the monopoly on the Occult. Besides, Leland, Regardi etc? I mean- hello.

The guy founded one tradition. An interesting one, but he isn't the beginning and end of Western Occultism. Important? Sure. But you're blowing it out of proportion.

Quote:

Often peoples reasoning of disdain are He was racist/sexist
Well who wasnt back then

Walter White, Susan Anthony, Elizabeth Stanton, TRM Howard, Edgar Nixon, Philip Randolf... want me to go on?

Quote:

Regardless of what people think of him
He has been a invalueble contributer to the
occult

I can place a value on him. He generated one theological system- one that may well have been developed by others in his era given the rise of the Spiritualist Movements, the fall of the Hellfire Club era and the like.

Quote:

Not only does this site give info on astral travel

Which is prohibited in my tradition.

Quote:

Summoning your gods

No it doesn't. confused


This isn't going to end well is it?  

[Priestess Asuka]

Mm... did Crowley borrow a little bit fro John Dee and Edward Kelly? Surely they can't go uncredited as far as dabbling into the occult goes.  

[TeaDidikai]

Priestess Asuka

Mm... did Crowley borrow a little bit fro John Dee and Edward Kelly? Surely they can't go uncredited as far as dabbling into the occult goes.

Amongst others. Don't get me wrong- it takes a special kind of duck to pull of what he did, but Dee, Kelly and other CMers work were the primary building blocks.  

[Recursive Paradox]

Mahi_Kali

Gerald Gardner himself was a student of Aleister Crowley

So? I don't need Crowley. I'm getting along quite well myself.

Quote:

Not only does this site give info on astral travel

I have no need of astral travel.

Quote:

Summoning your gods

I have no gods.  

[Adalyna]

This might actually be helpful to me in the future, as I've decided to focus my research on the practice of magic (or magick in Crowley's case?) This brings a lot of paradigms and belief systems to the table. That said I don't see myself seeking initiation to any traditions, Thelma included, so its only useful if it can be applied to general practice and not an initiated Thelemite. Plus I'd need better understanding of the tradition so I don't take things out of context.

That said, there other sources I'm looking into right now, before I start trying to understand Crowley's work.  

[Fiddlers Green]

~barely repressed rage-spasm~
~composes self~
~sighs wearily~

Crowley revolutionized will-working.
However, as far as actual research goes, he was even more baneful to contextual studies than his hellfire club, the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn, which, if you haven't done your history studies, was a group of eclectic cultural rapists. Mind you, what they did was par for the course in their nation and time period, but the fact that they are referenced as a sourcing tradition to this day means they augth be examined using all the standards of kodern scholarship.

Seriously kids, these guys weren't scholars, they were a Hellfire club.
If you don't know what that is, then use the interwebs (and i know you have at least a few of them if you can read this) and educate yourself.
Google and Wikipedia are good places to start.  

[Bastemhet]

Mahi_Kali

Summoning your gods

Am I only the person who not only feels that doing this is not necessary, but that it also may be quite dangerous and foolish?  

[Adalyna]

Fiddlers Green

~barely repressed rage-spasm~
~composes self~
~sighs wearily~

Crowley revolutionized will-working.
However, as far as actual research goes, he was even more baneful to contextual studies than his hellfire club, the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn, which, if you haven't done your history studies, was a group of eclectic cultural rapists. Mind you, what they did was par for the course in their nation and time period, but the fact that they are referenced as a sourcing tradition to this day means they augth be examined using all the standards of kodern scholarship.

Seriously kids, these guys weren't scholars, they were a Hellfire club.
If you don't know what that is, then use the interwebs (and i know you have at least a few of them if you can read this) and educate yourself.
Google and Wikipedia are good places to start.

I see. Would you say researching Crowley, Thelema, or Golden Dawn, is a waste of time, or would you say to take their ideas with a grain of salt, in particular where they draw cultural inspiration?  

[Fiddlers Green]

Sophist, I always say people should never summon something they can't control.
I don't worship beings I can command.
Also, it may seem insulting to most gods I know.

Asahi Sara

I see. Would you say researching Crowley, Thelema, or Golden Dawn, is a waste of time, or would you say to take their ideas with a grain of salt, in particular where they draw cultural inspiration?

Crowley did interesting stuff, his scholarship was just really weak.
Research him, but don't take any of his own claims of research at face value.
Thelema predates Crowley by alot. Research there should be enlightening. It will open your eyes to the world of Hermetic plagiarism.
the Golden Dawn is worth researching, if for nothing more than a how not to borrow from cultures. Also, they are a historically interesting group, much like the Masons of their day.
Basically, be critical and skeptical of their findings, learn from outside sources, and take everything with the great Salt Flats of Utah. wink  

[Adalyna]

Fiddlers Green

Sophist, I always say people should never summon something they can't control.
I don't worship beings I can command.
Also, it may seem insulting to most gods I know.

Asahi Sara

I see. Would you say researching Crowley, Thelema, or Golden Dawn, is a waste of time, or would you say to take their ideas with a grain of salt, in particular where they draw cultural inspiration?

Crowley did interesting stuff, his scholarship was just really weak.
Research him, but don't take any of his own claims of research at face value.
Thelema predates Crowley by alot. Research there should be enlightening. It will open your eyes to the world of Hermetic plagiarism.
the Golden Dawn is worth researching, if for nothing more than a how not to borrow from cultures. Also, they are a historically interesting group, much like the Masons of their day.
Basically, be critical and skeptical of their findings, learn from outside sources, and take everything with the great Salt Flats of Utah. wink

I try to do that almost anywhere i look really, but I find myself more interested in Crowley's personal ideas, than his scholarly background. Still it would be good to know from where he drew those ideas or claimed to. At any rate further Thelema research is on my to do list, but its not really next on the list. As far as OP goes, having been influenced by Crowley in and of itself, is not a bad thing, just remember not everyone here practices Thelema. Perhaps OP should post this in his pathways thread and why Crowley was influential towards himself?  

[Fiddlers Green]

Asahi Sara

I try to do that almost anywhere i look really, but I find myself more interested in Crowley's personal ideas, than his scholarly background. Still it would be good to know from where he drew those ideas or claimed to. At any rate further Thelema research is on my to do list, but its not really next on the list. As far as OP goes, having been influenced by Crowley in and of itself, is not a bad thing, just remember not everyone here practices Thelema. Perhaps OP should post this in his pathways thread and why Crowley was influential towards himself?

Actually, where Crowley got some of his ideas is a very valid thing to be curious about.
Seriously, I almost want to say he was running on nearly pure Gnosis, or direct inspiration, knowledge gained without learning.
He was a fascinating person. Best of fortune in your research.

As for discussing Thelema, it is good, from time to time to have one of these out in the open so the person can see the general reaction. Some people don't know magic existed before the Golden Dawn, some don't understand that some of their practices are anathema to other traditions. Ignorance can be easily remedied when many minds work together. 3nodding  

[TeaDidikai]

Fiddlers Green

Actually, where Crowley got some of his ideas is a very valid thing to be curious about.
Seriously, I almost want to say he was running on nearly pure Gnosis, or direct inspiration, knowledge gained without learning.
He was a fascinating person. Best of fortune in your research.

Interesting. I could never bring myself to say such about Crowley. Most of his stuff reads as a rehashed embittered version of the stuff that came out of the GD with bits of the Spiritualist movement and the like tossed in for good reference.

I mean, even looking through The Book of The Law, we're seeing a lot of material pulled from GD with only slight changes, such as the Empress and the Star.

His work always read to me like he lifted a formula from his time in the Golden Dawn and plugged everything and anything he could into it- including Nursery Rhymes. Tweek it here and there to account for his issues with Christianity and his sexual frustrations and Boom. Thelema.  

[Bastemhet]

Fiddlers Green

Sophist, I always say people should never summon something they can't control.
I don't worship beings I can command.
Also, it may seem insulting to most gods I know.

My sentiments exactly.  

[breuddwyd]

I promised myself I would not consciously regect any of the teachings of people in regard to magic, so that's why I'm going to look at the site but thanks for the warnings so I can take it all with a little more cynicism(sp?).