Birth control.

[freelance lover]

I've long heard that some Christians believe birth control is sinful, but I've never fully understand why. I understand there's a notion of "every sperm is sacred" or that by using a condom or whatnot you are interfering in God's plan for you to have children or something along those lines. But I've never heard any real definitive backing (read: Scripture) that support of prohibits the use of contraception.

So if you think birth control is sinful, why? Anyone know any scripture?  

[Priestley]

I think there are two main arguments against contraception. The first is, as you say, that it is a prevention of God's will, which is a direct challenge against God. The second is that it removes the purpose of sex for procreation, thus making it a hedonist activity, which encourages adulterous behaviour. Both are regarded sinful, the first for disobedience and the second for adultery.

The only scripture I can remember involved the withdrawal method, but that was said to be sinful due to disobedience rather than lust.  

[freelance lover]

Priestley

I think there are two main arguments against contraception. The first is, as you say, that it is a prevention of God's will, which is a direct challenge against God. The second is that it removes the purpose of sex for procreation, thus making it a hedonist activity, which encourages adulterous behaviour. Both are regarded sinful, the first for disobedience and the second for adultery.

The only scripture I can remember involved the withdrawal method, but that was said to be sinful due to disobedience rather than lust.

Interesting. I suppose this raises the question of sex's purpose.  

[Ixor Firebadger]

I think that it has a greater purpose than one's own pleasure or procreation. It was also something that is to be a deep demonstration of a person's love for someone. It's something that is to be shared ONLY with the person you marry. It was meant to be a gift to that person when you devote your lives to each other before God.

Song of Songs probably sums that up best, methinks.  

[Fushigi na Butterfly]

Ixor-san

I think that it has a greater purpose than one's own pleasure or procreation. It was also something that is to be a deep demonstration of a person's love for someone. It's something that is to be shared ONLY with the person you marry. It was meant to be a gift to that person when you devote your lives to each other before God.

Song of Songs probably sums that up best, methinks.

That's a good point. I think that all aspects of all of our relationships should mirror, to the best of our ability, aspects of our relationship with God. Sex is no different. It's an intimate act of giving and receiving, and much of the deep relational aspects of Christianity not explicitly explained in the Bible- the ones we are urged to try and experience for ourselves- can be construed as "sexual" in some way. The fact that we are the bride of Christ, and that Christ enters us upon establishing a relationship with Him, and the joy and elation associated with having a relationship with Him- I think Song of Solomon pretty much does sum it up.  

[Lazarus The Resurected]

Ixor-san

I think that it has a greater purpose than one's own pleasure or procreation. It was also something that is to be a deep demonstration of a person's love for someone. It's something that is to be shared ONLY with the person you marry. It was meant to be a gift to that person when you devote your lives to each other before God.

Song of Songs probably sums that up best, methinks.

I agree on the point of it being an expression of great love. but i've never understood why that has to mean that it is only for love and not for fun as well. it feels good, i was meant to be amusing. i also have never been able to grasp the idea that you should only have sex with one person your entire life and then only after marriage, i mean, what if you mary someon who is terrible in bed? or with whom you are otherwise sexualy incompatible?  

[Xandris]

Lazarus The Resurected

i mean, what if you mary someon who is terrible in bed? or with whom you are otherwise sexualy incompatible?

Sex is a fine motor skill. It gets better with practice. wink

I imagine that we've all been/are in high school. Has anyone else noticed that most of the drama is based around sex, and who's having it, and who's cheating on who? Sex changes your dynamic with a person, and having it casually usually ends with someone getting hurt. We can't help it. Hormones are released during and after that make us bond with the person we're having sex with, and, eventually, we give into biology. Even if it's only once, your entire relationship with that person changes. Sex wasn't meant to be used as a toy.

Statistically, a couple who were both virgins when they married have iffy sex in the beginning, but it steadily gets better. Conversely, a couple who have (one or both) had sex before marriage starts out good and goes downhill. Once you start playing the field, you also notice that everyone kind of has sex the same, and by keeping to one person, you're not missing much.



Anyway, back to the topic at hand: The Catholics usually use the 'go forth and multiply' excuse, but they're the only ones I've heard that still think birth control is... well, not exactly sinful anymore, but frowned upon. I personally think that the 'do not put the lord your god to the test' was an effective argument, especially when confronted with 'nothing will happen that you can't handle.' You're supposed to be open to the idea of life, but my wants and desires are still important, and even if I was married and didn't want a child, birth control is still an option for me.  

[Ixor Firebadger]

Xandris

Lazarus The Resurected

i mean, what if you mary someon who is terrible in bed? or with whom you are otherwise sexualy incompatible?

Sex is a fine motor skill. It gets better with practice. wink

he beat me to it xd

In any case, I think that if someone really means something to you-and you to them, it can't be bad. You'll do you what it takes to please each other. And that kinda goes back to practice.

Also, if you're basing your relationship on the right things, it shouldn't be that much of an issue.  

[Lazarus The Resurected]

Ixor-san

Xandris

Lazarus The Resurected

i mean, what if you mary someon who is terrible in bed? or with whom you are otherwise sexualy incompatible?

Sex is a fine motor skill. It gets better with practice. wink

he beat me to it xd

In any case, I think that if someone really means something to you-and you to them, it can't be bad. You'll do you what it takes to please each other. And that kinda goes back to practice.

Also, if you're basing your relationship on the right things, it shouldn't be that much of an issue.

ok but the other part of that was someone with whom you are not sexualy compatibloe. An example from my own life was a recent ex-girlfriend we hit off well, saw each other regularly and had amazing sex. however there came a bit of an impass, I happen to have a fetish for feet, footwear ect. nothing realy crazy (like trying to have sex with the soles of the feet) but i basicly viewed them a the same way most men look at breasts. the issue was that she hated feet. especialy hers. people might find this to be totally inconcequential but it left part of me unfulfilled. now offering someone a foot rub is generaly not considered a sexual advance, so i often had opportunity to indulge my fetish with other girls. this as you can imagine didn't fly too well with her because it was basicly foreplay for me.
sexual incompatibility and the fact that she got drung and screwed a friend of mine pretty much destroyed that relationship.

Sado-masochism would be another example. the biggest problem is that people generaly don't find out about these sexual desires until after they begin exploring thier sexuality. and if they do, for instance have a fantasy about being tied up and beaten they tend to keep it to themselves.

on the topic of birth control i think Xandris is correct with his point about the Catholics.  

[Fushigi na Butterfly]

Lazarus The Resurected

Ixor-san

Xandris

Lazarus The Resurected

i mean, what if you mary someon who is terrible in bed? or with whom you are otherwise sexualy incompatible?

Sex is a fine motor skill. It gets better with practice. wink

he beat me to it xd

In any case, I think that if someone really means something to you-and you to them, it can't be bad. You'll do you what it takes to please each other. And that kinda goes back to practice.

Also, if you're basing your relationship on the right things, it shouldn't be that much of an issue.

ok but the other part of that was someone with whom you are not sexualy compatibloe. An example from my own life was a recent ex-girlfriend we hit off well, saw each other regularly and had amazing sex. however there came a bit of an impass, I happen to have a fetish for feet, footwear ect. nothing realy crazy (like trying to have sex with the soles of the feet) but i basicly viewed them a the same way most men look at breasts. the issue was that she hated feet. especialy hers. people might find this to be totally inconcequential but it left part of me unfulfilled. now offering someone a foot rub is generaly not considered a sexual advance, so i often had opportunity to indulge my fetish with other girls. this as you can imagine didn't fly too well with her because it was basicly foreplay for me.
sexual incompatibility and the fact that she got drung and screwed a friend of mine pretty much destroyed that relationship.

Sado-masochism would be another example. the biggest problem is that people generaly don't find out about these sexual desires until after they begin exploring thier sexuality. and if they do, for instance have a fantasy about being tied up and beaten they tend to keep it to themselves.

on the topic of birth control i think Xandris is correct with his point about the Catholics.

You can find out what pleases your partner before you ever start having sex with them. Perhaps you've heard it before, but the best relationships are based on open and honest communication, and the willingness to compromise. Did you know that most sexual dysfunctions are actually a result of one or both partners' unwillingness to be honest and/or compromise? One partner wants to have sex hanging from the chandelier, the other one wants to do it in the basement, and they both end up hating sex because they only ever do it in the living room. Does this mean they aren't sexually compatible? No. It means they need to get over themselves and start talking to their partner so they can both give and take. Under no circumstances should boundaries be crossed without permission, but it's also unfair to draw lines and never budge on them when the other person is giving so much. Perhaps it's because I am still a virgin, but I don't believe in sexual incompatibility- only selfishness and uncommunicated wishes.  

[Priestley]

Fushigi na Butterfly

Perhaps it's because I am still a virgin, but I don't believe in sexual incompatibility- only selfishness and uncommunicated wishes.

heart  

[Xandris]

Mmm. The thing about sex is that you're supposed to have some discussions about it before you start having it. If you find someone that you're compatible with in every other area, but you have a disagreement about a fantasy or fetish, then it's time to compromise. Someone unwilling to compromise in their sex life is probably also unwilling to compromise in other areas of their life, and sex will untimately end up being the least of your problems. I've had a marriage where things deteriorated until the ONLY thing we had in common was our sexual interests, and it didn't last very long after that. In my new relationship, we're compatible in most ways, with a few potholes in the area of sex. BUT, we're both willing to compromise. You'd be surprised how long a little talking will go. smile  

[freelance lover]

Lazarus The Resurected

Ixor-san

I think that it has a greater purpose than one's own pleasure or procreation. It was also something that is to be a deep demonstration of a person's love for someone. It's something that is to be shared ONLY with the person you marry. It was meant to be a gift to that person when you devote your lives to each other before God.

Song of Songs probably sums that up best, methinks.

I agree on the point of it being an expression of great love. but i've never understood why that has to mean that it is only for love and not for fun as well. it feels good, i was meant to be amusing. i also have never been able to grasp the idea that you should only have sex with one person your entire life and then only after marriage, i mean, what if you mary someon who is terrible in bed? or with whom you are otherwise sexualy incompatible?

My thought process has always been that sex is something reserved for, ideally, the love of my life. Something that only he gets. Am I aware it might not work out this way? Yes, I am. But if I have two or three sexual partners through out my whole life and have loved each of them, then I doubt I look back and regret it. Personally, the idea of having sex with someone I'm not emotionally connected to turn me off. It's just not something I could do. I'm not 100% on waiting until after marriage though, I think it depends on the couple and their relationship.

And as for being sexually compatible. I also agree on the communication and compramise bit. I'd also like to add that I don't believe you have to have sex to know if you'll be sexually compatible. My boyfriend and I haven't had sex, but we are definitely both sexually compatible.

And this conversation might be better suited in the "what is marriage" thread, as that one is more about the logistics of sex.  

[Lazarus The Resurected]

freelance lover

Lazarus The Resurected

Ixor-san

I think that it has a greater purpose than one's own pleasure or procreation. It was also something that is to be a deep demonstration of a person's love for someone. It's something that is to be shared ONLY with the person you marry. It was meant to be a gift to that person when you devote your lives to each other before God.

Song of Songs probably sums that up best, methinks.

I agree on the point of it being an expression of great love. but i've never understood why that has to mean that it is only for love and not for fun as well. it feels good, i was meant to be amusing. i also have never been able to grasp the idea that you should only have sex with one person your entire life and then only after marriage, i mean, what if you mary someon who is terrible in bed? or with whom you are otherwise sexualy incompatible?

My thought process has always been that sex is something reserved for, ideally, the love of my life. Something that only he gets. Am I aware it might not work out this way? Yes, I am. But if I have two or three sexual partners through out my whole life and have loved each of them, then I doubt I look back and regret it. Personally, the idea of having sex with someone I'm not emotionally connected to turn me off. It's just not something I could do. I'm not 100% on waiting until after marriage though, I think it depends on the couple and their relationship.

And as for being sexually compatible. I also agree on the communication and compramise bit. I'd also like to add that I don't believe you have to have sex to know if you'll be sexually compatible. My boyfriend and I haven't had sex, but we are definitely both sexually compatible.

And this conversation might be better suited in the "what is marriage" thread, as that one is more about the logistics of sex.

true, this would have done well in the "what is marriage" thread but it is also relevant here as the two primay groups of people who use birth control are married couples who want to make sure they can plan ahead and budget before having a baby. and people who have extramarital sex for pleasure.  

[Priestley]

Lazarus The Resurected

freelance lover

Lazarus The Resurected

Ixor-san

I think that it has a greater purpose than one's own pleasure or procreation. It was also something that is to be a deep demonstration of a person's love for someone. It's something that is to be shared ONLY with the person you marry. It was meant to be a gift to that person when you devote your lives to each other before God.

Song of Songs probably sums that up best, methinks.

I agree on the point of it being an expression of great love. but i've never understood why that has to mean that it is only for love and not for fun as well. it feels good, i was meant to be amusing. i also have never been able to grasp the idea that you should only have sex with one person your entire life and then only after marriage, i mean, what if you mary someon who is terrible in bed? or with whom you are otherwise sexualy incompatible?

My thought process has always been that sex is something reserved for, ideally, the love of my life. Something that only he gets. Am I aware it might not work out this way? Yes, I am. But if I have two or three sexual partners through out my whole life and have loved each of them, then I doubt I look back and regret it. Personally, the idea of having sex with someone I'm not emotionally connected to turn me off. It's just not something I could do. I'm not 100% on waiting until after marriage though, I think it depends on the couple and their relationship.

And as for being sexually compatible. I also agree on the communication and compramise bit. I'd also like to add that I don't believe you have to have sex to know if you'll be sexually compatible. My boyfriend and I haven't had sex, but we are definitely both sexually compatible.

And this conversation might be better suited in the "what is marriage" thread, as that one is more about the logistics of sex.

true, this would have done well in the "what is marriage" thread but it is also relevant here as the two primay groups of people who use birth control are married couples who want to make sure they can plan ahead and budget before having a baby. and people who have extramarital sex for pleasure.

Basically, the two arguments I presented in my first post.