ST:Nemesis and the worst moments in Trek.

[Steel Sterling]

Even those who love Trek admit there's been some missteps along the
way. IMO, the pinnacle of that was the movie "Star Trek:Nemesis."
(The people in charge of that movie NEVER SAW ANY NEXTGEN TREK-
which explains all the gaffes, from the small to the catastrophic, all across
the movie.)


Obviously, I want to vent about this specific movie, but everyone has moments
across Trek history that they think should be expunged. (Patrick Stewart
hated the Ligonian "Code of Honor" episode, for example.) First seasons
often missed the mark as writers needed to get a handle on the subject.

What are the WORST Trek moments, in your opinion, and why are they
WORSE than all others?  

[Leila Amra Drake]

The moment when Data dies. I luv Dataaaaa! sad (Nemesis)
And I think that the series Enterprise got worse with each season. I really liked the first season but then the episodes started to confuse and annoy me... and it was no fun anymore.  

[Steel Sterling]

Leila Amra Drake

The moment when Data dies. I luv Dataaaaa! sad (Nemesis)
And I think that the series Enterprise got worse with each season. I really liked the first season but then the episodes started to confuse and annoy me... and it was no fun anymore.

We'll cover that moment in Nemesis, never fear.



The problem with "Enterprise"-and I saw it coming before the series began-
is that Rick Berman decided that CONTINUITY wasn't going to matter a lot.
So, he decided the dedicated fans wouldn't COUNT.

That's how the show got confusing.
You go in knowing that the NCC 1701 Enterprise and her sister ships of
the Constitution class were the first Federation ships to get phasers.
In fact, the USS Hood was THE first to get retro-fitted. Then Berman
says "nuts to that" and moves their invention back 200 years.
Of course, now there's been nearly 200 years of stagnation between all
the inventions-now backdated to Enterprise- and TNG, with the exceptions
of experiments. (The transwarp drive, the phased cloak, better torpedoes.)  

[Steel Sterling]

Nemesis, ok, where can I possibly start?
I'll not ask about Worf's arrival, they can have that for free.
How come Worf- Mister "I read all the tactical briefings"
doesn't know Romulan Ale is illegal?
Why is Worf- Mister "Drink not with thine enemy"
drinking ale MADE by an enemy?
(This is the same Worf who can watch a Romulan die and refuse to save
him-which happened at Galorndon Core.)


Why the hell is Wesley an officer?
Wesley was last seen dropping out of his last year at the Academy,
then travelling the universe (literally) with The Traveller.
Why does he seem a NORMAL crewman now?

Did Janeway get promoted ahead of Picard? SHE'S an ADMIRAL now,
HE'S a Captain!

Who the HECK are these vampire Romulans, and how come there's been
no MENTION of them if they existed all this time?

Where did a bunch of SLAVES get access to technology far superior to
Federation, Romulan and BORG tech? That ship was an utter Mary Sue
to beat all Mary Sues!
More guns than you can nail to the hull
DOUBLE the shield generators
Faster than all Romulan ships extant
MASSIVE powerplant output- but NO huge energy signature like the Defiant
Somehow has a cloak that can mask all of that-which has never been
accomplished. This ship can fly faster than Warp 9, shoot all weapons
and STILL remain "PERFECTLY" cloaked!
That's just plain ridiculous on all levels!

Too bad the Federation doesn't know how to
"target that explosion and fire" like it did when Sulu captained the Excelsior!
Too bad Data forgot how to saturate an area with charged particles to
force ships to "leave a trail" like he did during the Romulan attempt to
push for Duras' family to run the Klingon Empire.  

[Steel Sterling]

I'll skip all the following, to focus on the major stuff:

A) Worf can identify Irving Berlin songs
B) After all this time, Riker and Troi are actually getting married (unlikely,
but not impossible)
C) Picard's waited for YEARS to tell Data to shut up
D) Data's best idea for a wedding gift is to sing a song? (We spent a whole
episode once discussing wedding gifts, dancing...)




Ok, major stuff to discuss:
Romulans are the most paranoid beings in the Quadrant.
However, you can apparently enter their inner council chamber without
being scanned ONCE for things like HARD RADIATION TRACES.

Furthermore, radiation traces increasing IN the council room trigger no
alarm, no security forcefields to isolate each council-member, etc.
And someone setting off the equivalent of a bomb can make it out of the
building without difficulty.  

[YoukaiLuvr]

Steel Sterling

Did Janeway get promoted ahead of Picard? SHE'S an ADMIRAL now,
HE'S a Captain!

For the record - Kathryn did get promoted ahead of Jean-Luc. She was given the promotion upon Voyager's return and ALSO not given a choice...personally, I think if she truly had a choice, she would have refused.

I don't have an exact reference, but I believe Jean-Luc has been offered an admiralty, but has refused it.

Steel Sterling

B) After all this time, Riker and Troi are actually getting married (unlikely,
but not impossible)
D) Data's best idea for a wedding gift is to sing a song? (We spent a whole
episode once discussing wedding gifts, dancing...)

I LOVED the idea of Will and Deanna getting married - remember, this was about 18 months after Insurrection, which is where their relationship was rekindled. And there was a bunch of stuff that happened inbetween - Will's father dying not the least among them - that wasn't referenced or brought to film that influenced their decision.

And as for Data's gift...it kinda goes back to the first time he met Will. Remember Pop Goes the Weasel? I know the tunes aren't the same, but singing, whistling, anything that has to do with a human's vocal cords and music...Data's always had problems with them. Yes, I know he sang in Insurrection - but opera is a completely different genre and style than the one he sang in Nemesis. But to have his gift to Will and Deanna be a song - just for them? I think it's quite sweet.  

[Dunedien]

Janeway surpasses Picard in rank because Kirk in one of the movies warns Picard NOT TO LET STARFLEET PROMOTE HIM.
I agree Worf would know Romulan ale was illegal and therefor not drink it, but as to not wanting to drink with the enemy, klingons have no problem drinking among enemies. They can be battling and vieing for power, only to be seen sharing a drink or meal later that same day.
The devil lady that turns out to be a con artist in TNG annoyed me, because it seem to me that if Enterprise is able to be randomly scanning and able to pick up what turns out very quickly to be a cloaked Romulan Bird of Prey, how the heck does this nobody's ship, which they are looking for, elude them for so long. How is she able to do all of those projections and "earthquakes" without being detected?

I agree that voyager went downhill after the 1st season, the 7of9 episodes especially seemed to get really repetitive after awhile. "Oh no, I am hearing voices in my head again."

Despite the discrepencies, I didn't mind Nemesis that much. I felt it wasn't great, but it wasn't bad either.

Enterprise: If they had so much to do with time travel in the early earth warp voyages, why was Spock so puzzled by it at first in TOS?  

[Steel Sterling]

Dunedien

Janeway surpasses Picard in rank because Kirk in one of the movies warns Picard NOT TO LET STARFLEET PROMOTE HIM.

In "Generations." Ok, I can buy that.
Although I don't have to like it. smile

Quote:

I agree Warf would know Romulan ale was illegal and therefor not drink it, but as to not wanting to drink with the enemy, klingons have no problem drinking among enemies. They can be battling and vieing for power, only to be seen sharing a drink or meal later that same day.

Not true OF WORF.
He refused to drink with Q for that reason, and quoted the same Klingon
proverb when he was the ONLY Klingon who wouldn't drink with the other
Klingons during the civil war.

Marina Sirtis complained the director for "Nemesis" never saw even a
single episode of TNG. That's why he made mistakes like Geordi being
an alien.....

Quote:

The devil lady that turns out to be a con artist in TNG annoyed me, because it seem to me that if Enterprise is able to be randomly scanning and able to pick up what turns out very quickly to be a cloaked Romulan Bird of Prey, how the heck does this nobody's ship, which they are looking for, elude them for so long. How is she able to do all of those projections and "earthquakes" without being detected?

"Devil's Due." "Ardra" had a CHEAP KNOCKOFF of a cloaking device,
but the Enterprise couldn't find it. And yes, something hitting the planet
and making "earthquakes" should have been detectable at the point of
impact-even if it was just "we have a point of impact".

And Picard got a briefing from Geordi that explained how each trick could
work-but to the people on the planet, he had NO EXPLANATION.
And the Enterprise HAD ITS SHIELDS UP when "Ardra" visited Picard's
quarters. Ah-can't beam through shields....

Quote:

I agree that voyager went downhill after the 1st season, the 7of9 episodes especially seemed to get really repetitive after awhile. "Oh no, I am hearing voices in my head again."

Despite the discrepencies, I didn't mind Nemesis that much. I felt it wasn't great, but it wasn't bad either.

Enterprise: If they had so much to do with time travel in the early earth warp voyages, why was Spock so puzzled by it at first in TOS?

LeVar Burton said Nemesis "sucked", actually. There was a YouTube
video of it, but it's been removed.  

[Leila Amra Drake]

To put that right: I really like Voyager and think that the later seasons are better than the first.... but I can understand why you don't like it. smile
I also liked Data singing the song because when he held the speech everyone was like,"Oh no, he's gonna do something boring" and then he sings!  

[Steel Sterling]

Leila Amra Drake

To put that right: I really like Voyager and think that the later seasons are better than the first.... but I can understand why you don't like it. smile
I also liked Data singing the song because when he held the speech everyone was like,"Oh no, he's gonna do something boring" and then he sings!

I was actually FINE with Data singing a song. My issue was with him announcing
it was a WEDDING PRESENT.  

[YoukaiLuvr]

Steel Sterling

I was actually FINE with Data singing a song. My issue was with him announcing
it was a WEDDING PRESENT.

Well, what else would you have had him get them? Dishes? Sheets? Negligee? I thought it was quite sweet. When you've known someone for so long, it's hard to find something to get them for something so big. Believe me - I've been there!!!  

[Steel Sterling]

YoukaiLuvr

Steel Sterling

I was actually FINE with Data singing a song. My issue was with him announcing
it was a WEDDING PRESENT.

Well, what else would you have had him get them? Dishes? Sheets? Negligee? I thought it was quite sweet. When you've known someone for so long, it's hard to find something to get them for something so big. Believe me - I've been there!!!

Actually, yes.
He spent part of an episode once going over all kinds of considerations
for giving gifts, and another about receiving gifts.  

[goddess_oraorchid]

"Enterprise" 95% of it.

Every few episode culminated in "We don't have anything else to write about....TEMPORAL MESS UP!!" it kept needlessly rewriting history. The Borg people THE BORG!!!

The characters where horrid for the most part. Archer was ,pardon my french, douche and T'pal was not very....vulcanish  

[Steel Sterling]

For those who saw Nemesis once and forgot it,
this is actually a pretty effective refresher...

http://www.stardestroyer.net/Nemesis/Pictorial-1.html  

[Steel Sterling]

Ok, let me try to put these in some sort of order.
Especially since I have a reference tool to the order. smile


1) Romulan VIPs meet- and nobody's scanned for weapons, radiation,etc
when entering the room.

2) The Romulan VIPs have no active Security in the room-
like, say, emergency isolation force fields if a danger is detected.

3) Someone can set off such a weapon- and make it out of the building
without getting caught.

4) Where DID that ion storm go?

5) Whatever happened to the Prime Directive?

6) Captain's on the away team?

7) "We're going into an area where we expect possible attacks.
We will NOT be using any form of protective forcefield or
holographic shroud to hide under."

cool Despite the only other Soong-type android being Lore, Geordi has
no problem downloading a copy of Data's files to the B-4, even though
a lot of them are classified.

9) Shinzon's dying in hours-but all his plans proceed at a casual,
leisurely pace.

10) Shinzon has every reason to hate the Romulans- so naturally he will
attack Earth rather than any Romulans.

11) The Scimitar is impossible to built in ST, even with the addition of
Borg technology.

12) Shinzon stops his plans while dying just to throw in a psychic rape.
Hey-FIRST save your own life, THEN rape someone!


13) Rather than just beam out Picard, the Scimitar sends a raiding
party elsewhere.

14) Worf and Riker stop what they're doing to handle the invaders.
Security details are invisible now.


15) Picard goes ALONE to the Scimitar, with ONE hand phaser and ONE
rifle.

16) As soon as the controls for the main transporter blew up, I pictured
Geordi telling Data to meet him in the Battle Bridge, where they can
patch into the transporters on the ship's shuttlecrafts.

17) With shuttlecraft & the captain's yacht still working, Data doesn't
grab a shuttle and an emergency transponder armband for instant
retrieval- he goes alone and unarmed to the ship.

1 cool Data reaches Picard. Does Data put an armband on him and send him
to a shuttlecraft or the Enterprise using a site-to-site transport? No, he
just gives him the new experimental thing.
Instead of setting a weapon to overload, putting it next to the ship weapon,
then activating his own arm-transponder (which he didn't wear), Data
instead chooses to be present during the weapon's destruction.
Which destroyed him pretty well, too.)