The Ethics of ESP: Mind-Reading

[Autumnal Light]

The thing I would hate more than almost anything else in the world would be for someone to read my mind without my permission. There are some things that go on in my head that aren't always within my control and which I'd rather nobody had a front-row seat to.

I'll say outright that I have no personal experience with telepathy or the like. I've noticed people online claiming they have this ability or trying to get other people to teach them how to control and/or acquire it. But every time I see someone like this, I wonder if they ever stop to consider other peoples' right to privacy. A person's last refuge is their mind, after all.

Under what circumstances is mind-reading permissible? Are there different standards for this and things like aura-reading or detecting peoples' emotions?

In my own case, I wouldn't mind so much if people were simply trying to read my mood or health without my knowledge. A person skilled at reading body language could do that anyway. But when the person crosses the line over into trying to identify specific thoughts, things start to get sketchy for me.

What are your boundaries? What are (or would) you be comfortable doing to others or having done to yourself?

((For the purpose of this post, I'm assuming that there are people actually capable of mind-reading. Having never encountered the phenomenon myself, I'm not the best judge.))  

[TeaDidikai]

For me, if people's last refuge is their mind, they had best not be spilling their thoughts over into my lap.

That said, I'm telepathetic, not telepathic. So if you're broadcasting loud enough to everyone else, rather than shielding, I'd say that you just hung out a neon-sign. Asking people to blind themselves in order for them not to see it is a bit silly in my eyes.  

[Recursive Paradox]

I suppose I would follow the same rules about prying into people's business or gossip. If someone doesn't want me to know and it doesn't affect me then it isn't my business.

To a certain extent this applies to my capacity to observe people and track their behavioral patterns. It's not something I can really turn off though. So I just try to avoid putting that information to use when I notice it.  

[Autumnal Light]

TeaDidikai

For me, if people's last refuge is their mind, they had best not be spilling their thoughts over into my lap.

That said, I'm telepathetic, not telepathic. So if you're broadcasting loud enough to everyone else, rather than shielding, I'd say that you just hung out a neon-sign. Asking people to blind themselves in order for them not to see it is a bit silly in my eyes.

Do you find that people tend to broadcast their thoughts unknowingly? It's interesting that you mention shielding to keep one's thoughts IN, since I've usually heard shielding referred to as a means of keeping things OUT.  

[CuAnnan]

I'm not telepathic nor telepathetic.
I have well trained empathy, good body language reading and a profiling mindset.
I view entering someone's mind or heart, uninvited, as mental rape. To be treated as such.
I wander around with pretty much perma-shields up to prevent myself from inadvertently reading people to a deeper level than would be appropriate. Similarly to Tea, I have a policy on "if you're screaming it at me so loud that my plugging my ears and going 'la la la, I can't hear you', your tough.  

[TeaDidikai]

mute_coyote

Do you find that people tend to broadcast their thoughts unknowingly? It's interesting that you mention shielding to keep one's thoughts IN, since I've usually heard shielding referred to as a means of keeping things OUT.

In my opinion and within my cosmology, if you have a shield with holes in it that things seep out through, you have a shield with holes period.

As for "unknowingly", it's less about "knowing" they are doing it and more about intention. What is commonly considered to be a persons "personal space bubble" usually contains their "aura". Anything falling within that boundary is akin to observing someone's clothing. You can't help but notice they're wearing a brown shirt, but you aren't going to grab them and look at the tags either. If I'm five feet away and you're intruding on my bubble, it isn't my fault if I notice more than what your conscience mind wants me to.

It's the same reason I hold psychic vampires accountable for their actions.  

[TatteredAngel]

This brings up some questions for me. Tea, you're talking about intention, but if you have someone who is broadcasting like all hell, but is not for all intents and purposes a believer in such a thing, where does that leave them? It wouldn't be an intentional act, because they don't think they're actually doing it? Right? Or not so much?

I have personal issues due to being relatively empathetic. Whether it is more a matter of picking up on anything psychic versus being able to read people based on body language, etc. I couldn't tell you, but it makes me wonder-- is it just a matter of shielding if you don't want to pick up on it sometimes? Is there any way to just shut off for a while? Is that a good solution or not?  

[TeaDidikai]

TatteredAngel

This brings up some questions for me. Tea, you're talking about intention, but if you have someone who is broadcasting like all hell, but is not for all intents and purposes a believer in such a thing, where does that leave them? It wouldn't be an intentional act, because they don't think they're actually doing it? Right? Or not so much?

I had a long and very interesting debate with my husband about this. I say that it is an intentional act. Intent is not limited to the conscious.

I'm going to use a painfully familiar example: Fluffy Teens who decide they are Wiccan High Priestesses.

Their conscious intent behind their primary action is to develop a relationship with their inner-divine-bloody-goddess. [/over simplification].

Their unconscious intent is to establish moral autonomy by developing a sense of self that contrasts with the authority figures in their lives. [/over simplification].

Thus we have actions and motivations that the individual is unable to intellectually quantify or qualify, but it is an intentional act all the same.

Energetically speaking- people do the same thing. If their personality develops a reserved person this builds in certain shields independently of thoughtful intention. Likewise, people who develop in ways where they splash their thoughts and energy around there are personal reasons for it.

I had a hard time coming to terms with this myself. I had a very dear friend suggest to me that I was "Too High Energy" for him sometimes. He's a non-metaphysical agnostic. He was speaking personality wise. I reworked my shields and our friendship got even better because I wasn't overwhelming him so much. (For the Recon Folks: it was Rem. Smart cookie that one. )

Quote:

is it just a matter of shielding if you don't want to pick up on it sometimes?

Depends on how good you are at shielding, how badly they want to splash or yell and other factors, such as where your attention is.

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Is there any way to just shut off for a while?

There are ways to do that. If there weren't, I'm sure I'd be a lot more stressed than I am.

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Is that a good solution or not?

I think that's something you have to determine for yourself and within your own tradition.  

[Fiddlers Green]

To me, it is one thing for a person to observe what I am showing... this includes hearing my loud thoughts or the like.
That is just fine.
However, if someone tries to steal my secrets, attempts to intrusively enter my memories, or scry me in any other way for that matter... without my permission... There is an excellent chance I will consider them a mortal enemy.
I will not actively violate another person like that.
I appreciate similar courtesy.

For me, it all revolves around whether the event is intrusive or not.
I can't blame someone for seeing me if I wander outside naked, or stand in my window so.
However, if they club me in the head and strip my clothing off, then we have an issue.  

[TeaDidikai]

Fiddlers Green

To me, it is one thing for a person to observe what I am showing... this includes hearing my loud thoughts or the like.
That is just fine.
However, if someone tries to steal my secrets, attempts to intrusively enter my memories, or scry me in any other way for that matter... without my permission... There is an excellent chance I will consider them a mortal enemy.
I will not actively violate another person like that.
I appreciate similar courtesy.

For me, it all revolves around whether the event is intrusive or not.
I can't blame someone for seeing me if I wander outside naked, or stand in my window so.
However, if they club me in the head and strip my clothing off, then we have an issue.

Do you have an opinion on if it was the other person being intrusive or if the universe conspired to those ends?

This gets to be my really absurd analogy for the day.

You friend is waiting out by their car for you to finish showering, dress and come out for lunch when a mini-tornado lifts the house from it's foundation and sets it on top of your neighbor's house, leaving you naked as a jay bird and them looking at the result of the tornado including your behind?  

[Fiddlers Green]

TeaDidikai

Do you have an opinion on if it was the other person being intrusive or if the universe conspired to those ends?

This gets to be my really absurd analogy for the day.

You friend is waiting out by their car for you to finish showering, dress and come out for lunch when a mini-tornado lifts the house from it's foundation and sets it on top of your neighbor's house, leaving you naked as a jay bird and them looking at the result of the tornado including your behind?

In that case, I would hope my friend would help me, you know, not die from just being tornadoed. My exposure is of trivial import compared to the disaster occurring around us.
Now, assuming the tornado had not harmed me, I would expect any friend of mine to avert their eyes, unless there was some massive mitigating circumstance otherwise.
In this metaphor at least.
Outside of this metaphor, I may be more concerned with helping my neighbor, who may be in serious trouble from my house having pulled a visit to Oz on them, and I am not at all okay with leaving people to die while I am protecting my modesty.

Also, you are correct, this analogy is sorta reaching for refuge in absurdity. wink

Edit:Also, if my Home (Mind) as it were, were ripped apart at the foundation, and hurled atop my neighbors... I doubt I would be in any condition to ever care again either way. This kind of disaster is not something I would survive. Even if I did, I would likely get myself killed striking at the source of that wind. If such a force had targeted me, and I wouldn't believe it was just coincidence, I would hunt it without mercy. I would obsess over it. My every coherent thought would be of it's destruction or banishment. even if I did receive satisfaction, I would likely kill myself afterwards. I have been sworn to secrecy in many things, if I can be so easily toppled, I must destroy myself and see to it that my secrets, what few remain, follow me into oblivion, rather than risk them being broadcasted.  

[TeaDidikai]

Fiddlers Green

Also, you are correct, this analogy is sorta reaching for refuge in absurdity. wink

it amused me thought! blaugh

When it comes to scrying- I figure if a scrying of events provides information about me and my place within them, that's the universe projecting me, not me projecting myself. I could understand why someone might feel that it's intrusive- but I suppose I give it a pass based on the fact that the intention wasn't to be invasive towards me, I just happen to be entangled.  

[Fiddlers Green]

I'm all for people reading portents.
Even when it ends up giving up very personal information about me.
It isn't intrusive, if the leaves fall into the pond and they suddenly know what size shoe I wear, well, that's more like me having stood in the window naked, someone taking a picture, and then letting it drift around, I have no right to be upset about that. 3nodding  

[TeaDidikai]

Fair enough. 3nodding  

[CuAnnan]

Fiddlers Green

I'm all for people reading portents.
Even when it ends up giving up very personal information about me.
It isn't intrusive, if the leaves fall into the pond and they suddenly know what size shoe I wear, well, that's more like me having stood in the window naked, someone taking a picture, and then letting it drift around, I have no right to be upset about that. 3nodding

*sets up a camera outside Fidder's window*