I have a problem

[ShadowCatSoul]

Around about 2 years ago I had a dream about a man with bronze-ish coloring and a greenish tint with antlers. He and I had a conversation on a hill (I don't think the conversation would be of any importance to y'all) and also a scene played out below the hill. My two best friends Matt and James, Matt was with some unknown girl and James was with me. Matt and his girl stayed put while James and I walked towards a limo and before he got in he kissed me goodnight and I walked to my house (right next to the limo). I believed it a dream vision (I've had dream visions before, but never had a god or even a spirit appeared in them) from some god because not a week or two later my dream literally came true. I thought the god to be Cernunnos at the time, even though I was told by a couple of people that I couldn't worship celtic gods. A couple days after my dream vision I had a dream and in that dream was the full moon in a starless sky and I kept hearing whispered words that said moon magic over and over. What could that have been? Sometime last week, however, I prayed to the Lord and Lady (I'd been looking to them lately) and either the next day or the day after (I forget which) my prayer was answered, it seemed. My problem is that I was also told that I couldn't worship the Lord and Lady since I'm not an initiated wiccan. Can someone please help me understand what this all means?  

[PrayThatThisEnds]

Cara Soror,

I believe that spirits being in the dream or not being in the dream is not the main point - you have a gift. a gift that should be developed and nutured, and how you go about doing that is not a matter of what is "correct" but what you feel you must do, no matter what. 'Do what thou Wilt is the whole of the Law' - this is critical.

As for "moon magic" - I have not heard of any such thing since the sun takes critical importance in magick, since thats where all the old traditions are based, unless, of course you are Gardnerian...

In any case, develop the gift, how you go about it is not my concern.

LVX,
Fr. L.e.L.  

[TeaDidikai]

ShadowCatSoul

I prayed to the Lord and Lady

Which lord and lady would these be?

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Can someone please help me understand what this all means?

It could be "an undigested bit of beef, a blot of mustard, a crumb of cheese, a fragment of an underdone potato."

What leads you to believe it is anything else? What tests did you do in order to determine what it was?

PrayThatThisEnds

I believe that spirits being in the dream or not being in the dream is not the main point - you have a gift.

Does she? How do you figure?

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'Do what thou Wilt is the whole of the Law' - this is critical.

If it's so critical, why the ******** are you forgetting the second half?! eek

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As for "moon magic" - I have not heard of any such thing since the sun takes critical importance in magick, since thats where all the old traditions are based, unless, of course you are Gardnerian...

Hasty generalization if I ever saw one.  

[PrayThatThisEnds]

TeaDidikai

ShadowCatSoul

I prayed to the Lord and Lady

Which lord and lady would these be?

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Can someone please help me understand what this all means?

It could be "an undigested bit of beef, a blot of mustard, a crumb of cheese, a fragment of an underdone potato."

What leads you to believe it is anything else? What tests did you do in order to determine what it was?

PrayThatThisEnds

I believe that spirits being in the dream or not being in the dream is not the main point - you have a gift.

Does she? How do you figure?

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'Do what thou Wilt is the whole of the Law' - this is critical.

If it's so critical, why the f**k are you forgetting the second half?! eek

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As for "moon magic" - I have not heard of any such thing since the sun takes critical importance in magick, since thats where all the old traditions are based, unless, of course you are Gardnerian...

Hasty generalization if I ever saw one.

Uhm.. What do you mean? Spiritual powers can be pre-disposition since birth or acquired conciously or subconciously at any time. I'm just assuming, nothing wrong with that.

And for the record, the second half is found seperate in Liber Al from the portion the "Do what thou Wilt is the whole of the Law" comes from.

"40. Who calls us Thelemites will do no wrong, if he look but close into the word. For there are therein Three Grades, the Hermit, and the Lover, and the man of Earth. Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.

[...]

57. Invoke me under my stars! Love is the law, love under will. Nor let the fools mistake love; for there are love and love. There is the dove, and there is the serpent. Choose ye well! He, my prophet, hath chosen, knowing the law of the fortress, and the great mystery of the House of God. "

If they are seperate in Liber Al, then why does it matter if they are seperate elsewhere? They are just the main message of Thelema. In Doing your Will, there is Love. The ending assures us that the law is love - and love is the main message of the whole law.

LVX.
Fr.L.e.L  

[TeaDidikai]

PrayThatThisEnds

Spiritual powers can be pre-disposition since birth

Would you care to prove this assertion?

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I'm just assuming, nothing wrong with that.

Unless of course your assumptions are poorly thought out and feed into a Mr. Dark.

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If they are seperate in Liber Al, then why does it matter if they are seperate elsewhere?

Because you're removing context. rolleyes

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They are just the main message of Thelema. In Doing your Will, there is Love. The ending assures us that the law is love - and love is the main message of the whole law.

There is love and there is love... and if you're feeding snippets of information out of context, you're doing others a disservice and quite frankly, being rather ignorant.

You're sending people off on a fool's errand when you suggest that half of the statement is enough to be a guide.  

[PrayThatThisEnds]

TeaDidikai

PrayThatThisEnds

Spiritual powers can be pre-disposition since birth

Would you care to prove this assertion?

Thats what many people claim. If thats not true that there is no such possiblity, please prove yours that its not.

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I'm just assuming, nothing wrong with that.

Unless of course your assumptions are poorly thought out and feed into a Mr. Dark.

You lost me with Mr.Dark. Whoever that is.

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If they are seperate in Liber Al, then why does it matter if they are seperate elsewhere?

Because you're removing context. rolleyes

Right, and your knowledge of Thelema is so vast, thats why Aleister Crowley in EVERY Liber opens with " Do what thou ..." and closes with "Love is the Law.." because he took it out of context as well. Of course, Crowley was wrong about his own creation. wink

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They are just the main message of Thelema. In Doing your Will, there is Love. The ending assures us that the law is love - and love is the main message of the whole law.

There is love and there is love... and if you're feeding snippets of information out of context, you're doing others a disservice and quite frankly, being rather ignorant.

You're sending people off on a fool's errand when you suggest that half of the statement is enough to be a guide.

I'm feeding nothing out of context - if anyone wants to correct me, they can either: check the Book of the law, its available everywhere. I'm the one being ignorant? I'm the one here who has sources and quotes and links to almost everything I say. All you're doing is telling me to prove things, snickering about my opinions, or telling me to answer other challenges - that and of course, personal insults on top of it. Id like you to provide sources where you wish to correct me, whether you are right or not. prove it to me from any source other then Silver Ravenwolf or Buck Cunningham.

Replies in Bold.  

[TeaDidikai]

PrayThatThisEnds

Thats what many people claim.

One... one logical fallacy! Mwahaha! This one is known as "appeal to popularity".

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If thats not true that there is no such possiblity, please prove yours that its not.

Two... two logical fallacies! Mwahaha! This one is known as "Shifting the Burden of Proof".

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You lost me with Mr.Dark. Whoever that is.

Mr. Dark is a term used to describe what happens when people feed into delusions. Usually this manifests as grandeur or uber-powers. Most of them turn out to be rather harmless, but some of them have lead to social drama that causes more harm than you can fathom or actual violent episodes.

Shadow's conduct leads me to believe that the more serious issue would be her confusing "nifty dreams" with something of more meaning that would end in a lack of fulfillment and a need to scrap the false trail such unfounded direction would provide.

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Right, and your knowledge of Thelema is so vast, thats why Aleister Crowley in EVERY Liber opens with " Do what thou ..." and closes with "Love is the Law.." because he took it out of context as well. Of course, Crowley was wrong about his own creation. wink

Wrong? No. But he certainly wasn't direct. But hey- at least he included the second part. More than can be said for your mental masturbation.

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I'm feeding nothing out of context - if anyone wants to correct me, they can either: check the Book of the law, its available everywhere.

Problem with your assertion. Not everyone knows it's from the Book of the Law.

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I'm the one being ignorant?

Yep. Your words are petty thoughtless and ignorant because they hing on your world view without enough context for others who aren't familiar with Ceremonial traditions to understand and in some cases, argue for theological traditions that directly contradict others systems.

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I'm the one here who has sources and quotes and links to almost everything I say.

Yep, and some of those have contradicted yourself most amusingly.

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All you're doing is telling me to prove things

Heaven forbid! What a horrible thing for someone to do!

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snickering about my opinions,

They are pretty silly in some places. ~shrugs~

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or telling me to answer other challenges

If you're going to make unfounded claims in a De-fluffing guild, you're going to be met with challenges. -

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that and of course, personal insults on top of it.

Care to show me a personal insult?

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Id like you to provide sources where you wish to correct me,
whether you are right or not.

This is another case of shifting the burden of proof.

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prove it to me from any source other then Silver Ravenwolf or Buck Cunningham.

Does anyone know who Buck Cunningham is? confused  

[PrayThatThisEnds]

Yep. Your words are petty thoughtless and ignorant because they hing on your world view without enough context for others who aren't familiar with Ceremonial traditions to understand and in some cases, argue for theological traditions that directly contradict others systems.

You have a point, this is the Pagan guild. But why would you suggest we speak here when you know I follow CM in the first place?

So you can feel superior?

Just curious.  

[TeaDidikai]

PrayThatThisEnds

But why would you suggest we speak here when you know I follow CM in the first place?

Because I didn't think you'd be making such blanket assertions and I expected you to think your position through more carefully.

It's worth noting I'm not a pagan, I still post in thoughtful and useful ways for others. Same with Thou and Error when they're around.

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So you can feel superior?

Projection isn't flattering.  

[error-dot-tar]

TeaDidikai

It's worth noting I'm not a pagan, I still post in thoughtful and useful ways for others. Same with Thou and Error when they're around.

 

[ShadowCatSoul]

Tea, I'm sorry, but I've provided you with all the information I have. I've come to respect you and all, considering how knowledgeable you are, but answering a question with a question is very un-helpful to me. I didn't post that looking for attention, but I believe the dream meant something. And as for tests, I don't know how to do tests to see what is what. If I knew how to solve my own problem, I wouldn't have asked for help in the first place. That would be a waste of time.  

[Deoridhe]

ShadowCatSoul

And as for tests, I don't know how to do tests to see what is what.

One way to test is to research different symbols which appeared in your dream, such as the moon, and find out what different cultural aspects constellate around them.

In my experience, however, there is a difference between dreams and visions. The former often contain religious and spiritual symbols, but are speaking to your psychological or self-development. The latter are calls to action or interaction. The dream sounds much more like commentary on things you were dealing with two years ago, and your relationships with our best friends, than anything necessarily deity-related.

I find your repeated mention of people telling you you "couldn't" worship the Celtic gods or the Wiccan gods curious, though; not because that isn't likely the case, but because your inclusion of that seems to be carrying an unspoken demand that one back up your visions against those claims, so that you can go on to think and worship whom you chose without regard to research or effort.

This is disrespectful, both to those who did the work and have the background to worship the Celtic gods or the Wiccan gods, and to the gods themselves, as you are essentially saying they aren't worth the effort to get to know them and their strictures, but instead they should dance attendance on you.

You might want to rethink your attitude.  

[CuAnnan]

PrayThatThisEnds

I believe that spirits being in the dream or not being in the dream is not the main point - you have a gift.

You have no means to support this position, it's frankly absurd to come out with this frelling nonsense.

PrayThatThisEnds

As for "moon magic" - I have not heard of any such thing since the sun takes critical importance in magick, since thats where all the old traditions are based, unless, of course you are Gardnerian...

The Gael placed no significance upon the sun. All of our festivals are lunar based. We planted seeds by the moon, we harvested by the moon, we hunted by the moon, we prayed by the moon. The moon is so sacred there is no word in our language for it.

I am not a Gardnerian, nor a Wiccan. I have no relationship to Wicca of any nature. I am a Gael.
My statements come backed and supported by the Annals, Anthropology and Archaeology.
Where do yours come from?

And if you expect me to recognise you based upon the titles in your sig, I could add my titles to my sig, they're significantly longer.  

[PrayThatThisEnds]

CuAnnan

PrayThatThisEnds

I believe that spirits being in the dream or not being in the dream is not the main point - you have a gift.

You have no means to support this position, it's frankly absurd to come out with this frelling nonsense.

PrayThatThisEnds

As for "moon magic" - I have not heard of any such thing since the sun takes critical importance in magick, since thats where all the old traditions are based, unless, of course you are Gardnerian...

The Gael placed no significance upon the sun. All of our festivals are lunar based. We planted seeds by the moon, we harvested by the moon, we hunted by the moon, we prayed by the moon. The moon is so sacred there is no word in our language for it.

I am not a Gardnerian, nor a Wiccan. I have no relationship to Wicca of any nature. I am a Gael.
My statements come backed and supported by the Annals, Anthropology and Archaeology.
Where do yours come from?

And if you expect me to recognise you based upon the titles in your sig, I could add my titles to my sig, they're significantly longer.

Wow, god forbid i not know something, xd

Thank you for letting me know the exception.