Food for thought

[Knatalie9]

So... I have been thinking lately about Jeremiah 17:9. and different translations say the same thing... but slightly different, with emphasis on different things...

NAS
The heart is more deceitful than all else And is desperately sick; Who can understand it?

KJV
The heart is more deceitful than all else And is desperately sick; Who can understand it?

ASV
The heart is deceitful above all things, and it is exceedingly corrupt: who can know it?

NIV
The heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure. Who can understand it?

NLT
The human heart is the most deceitful of all things, and desperately wicked. Who really knows how bad it is?

Anyway... It all basically says the same thing... that the heart is deceitful. To what extent does this mean? Does this mean that the devil uses our feelings against us? That he can sway us to like things we ought not to? Such as love of money, [1 Timothy 1:10] sex, [Mathew 5:28] or can it go so far as to be a relationship? A relationship that you want to work so badly even when God says, "no." and maybe not because one of you is a drug addict while the other is pregnant with another man's child or anything so extreme. Can the heart just be so deceitful that you can believe fully in your heart that this boy/girl is the absolute one God created you to be with, even though you never asked Him? I've thought alot about this, because I never asked God about my last relationship. And I gave myself fully to the boy.. and not so much in the sexual way, but I gave my entire heart. I left nothing. And when it finally, finally, finally came through that maybe he wasn't the one... I was crushed. Am crushed. after 4 months. And I really believe that the devil can use the heart to blind us from God. To pull us from him. When we start to put something before God... we know that the devil is behind it right?

Either way, because I am still hurting over this boy... I wish I had read Proverbs 4:23 "Above all else, guard your heart, for it is the wellspring of life." and Philippians 4:7 "And the peace of God, which transcends all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus." I wish I had taken it to heart.

s'all. What do you guys think? Is the heart deceitful? And how much so? And in what ways can we guard our hearts?  

[Galad Aglaron]

I think it's nauseating misanthropic drivel.  

[Priestley]

Galad Damodred

I think it's nauseating misanthropic drivel.

Aw, that's nice of you to say. Thanks for your contribution.  

[freelance lover]

One of my sorority sisters once said to "Everything on God's schedule" and I've really taken that to heart.

As far as the devil using your heart against you- I don't think so. Of course, I also don't really believe in the devil- least not in the traditional sense. I think, by nature, the human heart is good and seeks God in all circumstances. I think the danger comes in when we think we know where to find God, rather than letting him lead us.

On the subject of relationships and mistakes, I think God also has the ability to take our mistake and turn it into his work, if we let him. I fought all year with a certain relationship that was falling apart. A few days ago he cut me out of his life completely. I see now that this was for the best. He did nothing but emotionally hurt me, but at the same time in our eight years of friendship he taught me more things then I ever could have imagined. God gave me lots of things in our relationship, but God was also telling me it was time to let go. It could be this boy taught you something, but maybe you need to move on before you can learn it.

Like I said, everything on God's schedule. God will will reveal things to you when the time is right- or those are my thoughts anyway.  

[Priestley]

Something I just remembered about what I've been learning lately is that most of our own troubles are the result of our own mistakes and, by the statement that our hearts are deceitful, we lie to ourselves and persuade ourselves to take courses of action that inevitably will cause harm to us.

Something I've also realised is that people tend to shirk the responsibility of having made these decisions and refuse to take responsibility for the outcome, instead choosing to blame God or the devil or whatever outside influence they can.  

[Knatalie9]

Priestley

Something I just remembered about what I've been learning lately is that most of our own troubles are the result of our own mistakes and, by the statement that our hearts are deceitful, we lie to ourselves and persuade ourselves to take courses of action that inevitably will cause harm to us.

Something I've also realised is that people tend to shirk the responsibility of having made these decisions and refuse to take responsibility for the outcome, instead choosing to blame God or the devil or whatever outside influence they can.

I think I might have stated something wrong... sweatdrop I didn't mean to blame my heart for my trouble... What I meant to say was that it can be misleading. My trouble and heart ache are my own fault. I more meant that sometimes we "listen to our heart" in the wrong way... life isn't exactly a fairy tell. and sometimes our brain, in all its logical sense, knows best and can tell us when to give something up than our emotions-driven heart.  

[Ixor Firebadger]

'The road to hell is paved with good intentions'

Our emotions have a purpose but they can run away with us quite easily. I think the trick to guarding one's heart is to try and balance our feelings with reason. In the case of romantic relationships, we have to know what it really means to love someone and how that needs to relate to that relationship. And we have to be able to look at that relationship objectively and be aware when all the elements aren't in place and whether they ever will be. When you let your emotions run away with you, you can't do that. It won't spare you all the heartbreak, that's really just a part of life, but it might cut down on the mistakes you make.

Our hearts can blind us if we aren't mindful of it, what it's doing and what it should be doing.  

[Galad Aglaron]

Priestley

Galad Damodred

I think it's nauseating misanthropic drivel.

Aw, that's nice of you to say. Thanks for your contribution.

I'm sorry, but that's honestly what I think. The heart is deceitful and desperately wicked? It's basically putting forward Amenadiel's theory. That emotion taints our perceptions and desire taints our actions.  

[Priestley]

Knatalie9

Priestley

Something I just remembered about what I've been learning lately is that most of our own troubles are the result of our own mistakes and, by the statement that our hearts are deceitful, we lie to ourselves and persuade ourselves to take courses of action that inevitably will cause harm to us.

Something I've also realised is that people tend to shirk the responsibility of having made these decisions and refuse to take responsibility for the outcome, instead choosing to blame God or the devil or whatever outside influence they can.

I think I might have stated something wrong... sweatdrop I didn't mean to blame my heart for my trouble... What I meant to say was that it can be misleading. My trouble and heart ache are my own fault. I more meant that sometimes we "listen to our heart" in the wrong way... life isn't exactly a fairy tell. and sometimes our brain, in all its logical sense, knows best and can tell us when to give something up than our emotions-driven heart.

I was making a generalisation based on patterns that I have observed. I wasn't singling you out in particular. smile They are two seperate statements: the first being about the scripture you quoted, the second being about your thoughts regarding the devil and his actions.

Sometimes we exchange the truth for a lie because we want so desperately for the lie to be true. In your case, it would be the relationship you had, but you're not on your own. I'm sure at least one of us has done something similar in varying degrees. *hugs* heart  

[Priestley]

Galad Damodred

Priestley

Galad Damodred

I think it's nauseating misanthropic drivel.

Aw, that's nice of you to say. Thanks for your contribution.

I'm sorry, but that's honestly what I think. The heart is deceitful and desperately wicked? It's basically putting forward Amenadiel's theory. That emotion taints our perceptions and desire taints our actions.

Well, if you take that verse out of context, it does sound awfully dire. The following verse, however, answers the question left at the end of the previous verse:

Jeremiah 17:10 NIV

"I the LORD search the heart
and examine the mind,
to reward a man according to his conduct,
according to what his deeds deserve."

This is in line with what Jesus says about it in Matthew 12:33-37, 15:16-20, Mark 7:14-23, Luke 6:43-45.  

[The Amazing Ryuu]

The heart of man is deceitful, and yet love is our earthly mission: love for God, our fellow man and ourselves. Perhaps it's the failure of our mission that causes our hearts to lie?  

[Priestley]

ryuu_chan

The heart of man is deceitful, and yet love is our earthly mission: love for God, our fellow man and ourselves. Perhaps it's the failure of our mission that causes our hearts to lie?

Failing the mission is a side effect of our willfulness rather than a cause.  

[Galad Aglaron]

Priestley

Galad Damodred

Priestley

Galad Damodred

I think it's nauseating misanthropic drivel.

Aw, that's nice of you to say. Thanks for your contribution.

I'm sorry, but that's honestly what I think. The heart is deceitful and desperately wicked? It's basically putting forward Amenadiel's theory. That emotion taints our perceptions and desire taints our actions.

Well, if you take that verse out of context, it does sound awfully dire. The following verse, however, answers the question left at the end of the previous verse:

Jeremiah 17:10 NIV

"I the LORD search the heart
and examine the mind,
to reward a man according to his conduct,
according to what his deeds deserve."

This is in line with what Jesus says about it in Matthew 12:33-37, 15:16-20, Mark 7:14-23, Luke 6:43-45.

Why didn't y'all say so?!  

[Edith Puthie]

To me, it depends on where you place your heart. We can all place our hearts on the wrong things! If we place our hearts on the wrong things it can be deceitful. But if we place our hearts on God then they are not deceitful.  

[Fushigi na Butterfly]

Wow, when did this get here and how did it get so ... popular so quickly?? eek Anyway, this belongs in the Bible discussion subforum, so when Knatalie sees this I'll move it, and we can finish discussing in there. And then I'll contribute my two cents. ^-^