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 Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2008 7:06 am
Please don't judge me when I tell you this.
I'm supposed to go to Maryland to my sister and her husbands house for thanksgiving with my parents and kids. My fathers first son from his first marriage is married to a black woman. I am totally against inner-racial relationships. I believe white should marry/date white and black should marry/date black. I do have a black friend who is also my neighbor and believe it or not I talked with her about my belief. She is with a white man. She was not offended. Anyway. I have not seen my fathers son or his wife. My family told her not to count on meeting me because I don't agree with their marriage.
My son told me last weekend that Lee (my fathers son) and Nonie (his wife) are going to be at my sisters house. When I called my father about it he denied it. I spoke with my sister last night and she told me they were going to come over to visit for a couple of hours. My parents didn't want her to tell me but she felt I should know. They are trying to set me up. I would be trapped in another state. I'm bipolar and I know what I am capable of doing in a situation like that. It wouldn't be good. Now I don't want to go.
First my sister said I could maybe just go for a walk or get on the computer while they were there. Then she started trying to convince me to just give it a try. I don't want to. My beliefs are set. I don't agree with it and that's final. We both got upset about the conversation and had to let each other go. I asked her why she just couldn't accept the way I feel about this, and she said the same thing to me. She really wants me to be there. But I can't go if they are going to be there. I just can't. I keep trying to tell myself to just give it a chance. But I can't. I don't understand how I can be friends with a black person, but I can't accept lee's marriage to Nonie. And she isn't just black, she isn't even American. She is very black.
I grew up with racial parents. Black people were N****s. And everything about them was bad. I can't understand how my parents could be that way then, but be ok with Lee and Nonie. They say she is very nice. And then My mom can't even stand Lee as it is. They are so 2 faced.
Well, I just needed someone to talk to about this. I'm sorry if anyone dosn't like me now because of the way I feel about black and white relations. I have decided not to go to my sisters for thanksgiving. If she can't respect my feelings then I don't care about hers.
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Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2008 11:09 am
Well, then, I guess you're not going to the reunion, simple as that. Obviously you haven't posted this here for advice, if you've already made up your mind about it.
It's odd, though. You've asked us as a community not to judge you about your beliefs. Fair enough. Won't say a word. But I find it rather strange, because you've already cast your own judgment on Lee's wife, without ever having met her.
Do you think that's particularly fair? I mean, if you do, then that settles it, I suppose. But doesn't this strike you as a double standard?
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High-functioning Cutesmasher
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Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2008 12:27 pm
I have been thinking about this post for about an hour now, trying to figure out how to word my response. . . but I still feel like I can't respond without violating your wish to be not judged. . . I am more than a little outraged at this situation and your inability to at least compromise. I will come back to address this a little later, but in the meantime, the part where you said: Quote: believe white should marry/date white and black should marry/date black. I do have a black friend who is also my neighbor and believe it or not I talked with her about my belief. She is with a white man. She was not offended. Is ridiculous. You are using this example as a defense for how you feel. Just because one person wasn't offended (and I'm sure she was at least in some way, and it would have been too bothersome to tell you because you have such close proximity) doesn't mean that the rest of the world won't be. Let alone your family members. . . .I'm getting a little worked up, I should take a step back and come back to this later.
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Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2008 12:33 pm
I'd have to agree with BlueberryJoy. Don't ask people to not be so judgmental about you, but you can be totally judgmental about other people. You don't have to like your step brother's, I believe it's your step brother, decision as to who he married, that's just fine and dandy. You're allowed to have your opinions, but just keep in mind that it was his choice to marry this woman. And that you have no control over. While you don't have to like it, be happy for him that he found someone that he loves and cares about.
I think you should try to get to know this woman. It might be awkward at first, you might actually like her. You never know, it just might end up changing your whole perception. Just be sure to take some extra medication with you (my aunt his bi-polar disorder as well and I've been around her when she's been at her worst) with you if you do decide to meet her. Sometimes I've had to bring along some extra Xanax when I go into an awkward situation like that, seeing as I've got an anxiety disorder. Just try to keep an open mind.
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Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2008 2:32 pm
I agree with BlueberryJoy in the fact that it does not seem like you are asking for advice or a conversation at all for that matter. Perhaps a rant forum would have been more appropriate?
But being that it is in a conversation forum, I will try to reply in a serious and intellectual manner.
I have had a friend whose mother was strongly against inter-racial relationships, and a friend of my father had a wife and daughter who also had this belief. My grandmother also seemed to be of this belief, but one interesting thing I would like to point out is that my grandmother is hispanic, not white {I wanted to point this out because there are those that believe only white people have discriminatory feelings toward other races}
I believe the line of thinking they had was that different skin color is akin to being another species and one should stick to their own kind so as to not alter their gene pool in a possibly negative manner. However, it is of my belief that skin color is completely irrelevant. If people of different skin color were meant to stay with people of the same skin color, then their reproductive systems would not be compatible enough to produce offspring. For example, a man and a dog cannot have children because human sperm and canine ova are incompatible.
To believe someone should not date or marry another because of skin color would be the same as believing they should not date because of a difference in eye or hair color. These are all aesthetic traits and thus should be viewed as the same. If you find nothing wrong with people of different eye and hair color dating and marrying, perhaps your skin color belief should be reevaluated.
It is much easier to just say, "I was raised like this so this is who I am." than it is to accept new ideas. I come across this a lot when speaking of religion. To accept a new idea does not necessarily mean agreeing with it. If you strongly believe that inter-racial relationships are not "natural" or "right" and feel that there is no way you could change this belief, this does not mean that you have to shun or disconnect yourself from those that think and practice otherwise. You can agree to disagree.
If you have never even been around inter-racial couples, I think it would be a good idea to at least try for a moment to be around them and see how it is and how you feel. If you have no experience with the situation, then it is harder to properly evaluate. In the instance you have described, if you feel uncomfortable being around them, you have the option of removing yourself from their presence.
I do agree that it was not the best idea of your parents to try to keep the fact that Lee and Nonie would be there from you, especially with your condition, however, I do not think that complete rejection of the idea of meeting them is the best answer, even if you do strongly disagree with their marriage... or rather -especially- if you strongly disagree with their marriage.
When I disagree with someone on a subject, I do not stop talking to them and try to distance myself with them. Instead, I try to talk to them more and find out more about why they feel this way so I can better understand why. Only under the circumstances that you feel too uncomfortable to bear with it or come under personal attacks should there be reason to end contact.
I also wanted to note this:lenoree I have decided not to go to my sisters for thanksgiving. If she can't respect my feelings then I don't care about hers. lenoree I grew up with racial parents. Black people were N****s. And everything about them was bad. I can't understand how my parents could be that way then, but be ok with Lee and Nonie.
A person who lives only in darkness knows not of light, and a person who lives only in light knows not of darkness. In darkness, talk of light in a positive manner would be seen as offensive, and exposure to light would burn the skin and eyes. In light, talk of darkness would be offensive, and exposure to darkness would leave one blind and cold. However, the more they are exposed, the more they can appreciate what it brings. It is best to walk in both the light and darkness... understanding both. If you only live in one, you will never understand the other.
Ill will is often the result of misunderstandings.
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Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2008 4:08 pm
I have read what you all had to say and I have come to the decision that I'm going to give it a shot. I'm going to do what pretty hate machine suggested and take extra pills with me and probably pop and extra Xanax because I also have social anxiety disorder. I never did care much for Lee though, and he isn't my step brother, he is my half brother. We have the same father but different mothers. And my father isn't even sure if he is even his. I spoke with my father a little while ago and he really wants me to come. So I'm going to Grin and Bear it. And If I don't feel comfortable I will go for a walk or lock myself in a room. Thanks for not being as mean to me as I know you probably would have liked. I probably should have never made that post, because now, even though I asked not to be judged, that's exactly what everyone on here is doing. Well, I'm not a bad person just because I don't agree with inter-racial relationships. I'm not the only person out there who thinks that way. I'm just not afraid to admit it.
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High-functioning Cutesmasher
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Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2008 5:17 pm
I'm very glad you're giving this a shot. biggrin
Nothing ventured, nothing gained. I wish you luck.
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Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2008 5:20 pm
I don't think of you as a bad person, so I hope you didn't misunderstand the intent of my post. Everyone is entitled to their opinions, I'm entitled to mine, and you're entitled to yours. I just don't see that any issue is worth dividing a family up over, and I'd hate to see someone lose a family member, no matter how strained the relationship. <3
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Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2008 8:00 pm
lenoree I probably should have never made that post, because now, even though I asked not to be judged, that's exactly what everyone on here is doing.
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Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2008 10:05 pm
Beliefs in a way of life doesn't mean you can't be happy for someone falling in love and being happy in there life. I mean what's more important? SHowing a person you care about them or making everyone aware of your disaproval? HArd to say where I grew up not really knowing any way of life except to treat others the way you like to be treated. hmmm, I guess what I'm trying to say is that I've never had a reason to be against something like that so I don't really understand the point of thinking that way but I was raised on love. That's it. No difference as long as there are good people and great feelings. How can something that is so good be bad in any way? Interesting topic anyways.
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Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2008 6:59 am
lenoree . Thanks for not being as mean to me as I know you probably would have liked. I probably should have never made that post, because now, even though I asked not to be judged, that's exactly what everyone on here is doing. Well, I'm not a bad person just because I don't agree with inter-racial relationships. I'm not the only person out there who thinks that way. I'm just not afraid to admit it. With all due respect, no one here has done any judging, nor commented on it to the point of being cruel. And, to say "as I know you probably would have liked" in reference to being mean... That is completely unacceptable and uncalled for. People here showed you a serious level of patience by admitting they had to step back before they said anything that would have been truly mean. You need to recognize this and to not acknowledge that is wrong. You passed a level of pre-determined judgement by saying everyone here is judging you. That in itself was wrong as well. While I commend you for having to courage to share this, and Im sure you had a personal conflict of interest in wondering how this would be handled, you have to remember this very important element:In expressing any opinion, you will ALWAYS have people who dont believe what you (or anyone) express. People have the right to say "I disagree".... but, how it is communicated is much more important. I stepped back and read every post on this topic so far, and let me say... I feel everyone's emotions, including yours, in these posts... Everyone, and I mean everyone who has responded has done so with the utmost highest level of restraint and expressed in a very careful and calculated manner. They are to be commended for handling themselves extremely well. This is NOT an easy subject matter. I am not going to pass judgement on you here, but I will definitely say this.... You really should consider some serious psychological help. To have this much disgust towards inter-racial relationships tells me there is something you have not shared with people due to being rather guarded.... I detect you may have had experienced something in your life that has put you in this level of belief-system that maybe even you are unaware of, perhaps on a more subconscious level. This level is not healthy at all... in fact I wonder if this is contributing towards your anxiety disorders? You mentioned social anxiety issues, and I cant help but picture something here that may have contributed to your beliefs.... This is not judgement, this is more of what I am detecting from your posts. Behavioral patterns is something I am able to pick up on from my line of work... and I must admit, you have me concerned on a very genuine level. The most important thing to always remember, and this goes along with work, school, doctor office visits, every and all facets of life: We all walk with two feet, we all have the same color blood that runs in our veins, we all share the same human characteristics of one another regardless of where our roots may have been grounded. We have all the same impulses and desires, always wanting to do more for one another, and want whats best for ourselves and each other... regardless of where we come from, what our skin color is, lifestyle, nationality is or whether we are from a disadvantaged or advantaged lifestyle. I have a cousin (she is the second oldest) who is married to a man who is half-black half-phillipino. My Korean brother (by marriage and I dont believe in calling him Stepbrother, he is my brother), who was adopted by his Italian father, is married to his second Mexican wife. He has a beautiful daughter from his first marriage who has the benefit of being in a blended heritage. My Korean sister, may she rest in peace was also adopted by the same, was dating a few black young men in college, Harvard to be exact... My mother and her second husband had my sister Sandra, who is half French, Half Italian. My whole family immigrated to the United States from Normandy. I am from both sides of the family, 100% pure French. My first husband was half-Native american and half british. My soon-to-be second husband is a self-proclaimed Mutt.. .they lost track of his nationalities by the year 1926 because of several families immigrating here from overseas... My daughter is 75% french, and 25% culturally-confused, as she likes to call it. Her father, with whom I never married, is part British, french and indian as far as we were able to research. She spends time checking out the cute and hot asian boys at school and has no problem admitting it! By just listing this in my own family, one can definitely say, we embrace life for what it is, very precious... we love our children unconditionally. I only had one relative who had a problem with my cousin marrying someone who was half-black/half phillipino, but coming from a generation (he was born in 1930) that had even more strict family beliefs, this was to be expected. He never once denied them access to his home, he never stopped them from coming to his home when he had family barbeques, because all that mattered to him was that so long as he treats her right, helps to take care of the home, and never lays a hand on her (he had 36 grandchildren, 30 of us are girls), he will accept him for the man he is as long as he respects her, protects her and loves her unconditionally. My grandfather raised me to believe that you can have your differences so long as it doesnt interfere and cause someone else's misery. If you find that you are miserable over something that someone else has done that you dont like.. you need to ask yourself "How does this affect you and what did it do to you?" If you cant answer yourself that very question, then, there truly isnt a reason to be miserable if it has nothing to do with you. I dont see anyone here setting you up for anything. Again, you mentioned you have a social anxiety disorder. Sounds like to me your family is trying to include you not torture you. Even though your parents didnt say it, they arent setting you up... if they know you, they know they didnt want to get you mad or upset. I give your sister alot of respect and commendation for trying to help you realize it is a family visit.. I dont see any set up at all. The reason why your sister cant accept you for your beliefs is more valid. Perhaps your anxieties are creating a barrier that allows you to stop up in your tracks..a protective barrier from something that 'might' happen, and not just your strong disbelief in interracial marriages. What we are taught by our parents, as you have mentioned, you had racial parents who referred to black people as the n-word, that they were bad people, is not always the right way to be taught. Your parents to me, perhaps have grown out of that world of hatred and have learned to embrace that they see differences as an accepted way of life? How do you truly know your Mother 'cant stand Lee as it is' when you are never there? Things have changed in the last 20-30, maybe even 40 years. You dont always have to listen to what your parents teach you, is the bottom line. My parents were drunken bums who did nothing but beat the s**t out of us, tried teaching us to hate in the worse way possible... as I raise my hand, I was taught so much negativity as a child, became an alcoholic at the age of 13, the victim of so much hatred that, 21 years later, I am the exact opposite of what my parents are.... Im not an alcoholic, Im not a child abuser, I enjoy different cultures and embrace changes and differences, and think it is wonderful to hear of people getting married, and not ever think about "is she white?", because it doesnt matter to me, the actions of others do not affect me because it has absolutely nothing to do with me to begin with. I hope some day, you can set yourself free of the anxieties that you have. It will help to free your mind, your soul and your life. You will then gain a better mind-set and be more open to things that can be different and glorious... Your brother (I know you said half, but I personally dont believe in it that) is married to a woman that he loves, and she loves him.. and that is all that should matter.
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Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2008 8:37 am
+1 to everything that Alexandretta said.
i'm always sort of amused when people say that they "don't agree" with interracial relationships. when we go out, my Indian hubby (who isn't just brown, but not even American, to use your words) don't run around asking people if they're okay with us being together. it's not like interracial (or intercultural) relationships are some kind of disputable opinion that you can agree or disagree with - they actually exist. you're the one who chooses whether or not they affect you. don't like interracial couples? that's cool, then just don't be a part of one. anything that anyone else does is truly none of your concern as it doesn't physically affect you in any way.
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Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 7:47 am
I'm sorry for sort of continuing this topic, especially after you posted that you are willing to give dinner a try. .but I still feel like I didn't say everything I waned to.
First, I was thinking about it and your excuse for being so racist was that your parents were. . . well, to that I have to say: Don't your siblings have the same parents!? - Half brother aside, (who still has the same father, and thus at least one parent in common w/ racism) your sister is included in this as well.
The brother who married interracially. The sister who got over whatever brainwashing your parents convinced you to believe. Your parents, who you claim are the original source. . . who have gotten over it. This excuse of "its all their fault, they made me this way" is full of holes. There is no reason to act this way.
Of course, the problem inherent in racism is its irrationality. No matter what anyone says to you, you're not going to just up and change. it has to come from within. Maybe this is your first step. But you have to realize that this behavior is actually changeable. . . social anxiety or not. There is no reason to perpetuate such hatred in yourself or the world.
Just holding onto this feeling of being "not ok" with his marriage causes you stress, and on top of that, exacerbates your 'conditional anxiety'. Life would be a lot easier, rationally, if you let it be. What is this relationship doing to you? Can you think of any reason to not be OK with it besides "I was told to think this way" ? Do you believe everything your parents ever told you? Or anyone for that matter? When you think of their relationship seriously, what are they hurting? (please feel free to list your reasoning. I am a psych / communications major and would be willing to try to help you with this)
Like someone said above me, its perfectly fine if, after you meet them, decide that you don't like them for other reasons (personality differences, bad habits, whatever). . But it isn't fair to just have this judgment on something so . . . arbitrary as skin color.
again, to restate another wisdom-filled geezer above me, Skin color really is just as arbitrary as eye color or hair color. Even those in the same 'race' have variations in color between them. and the only difference between the genes - specifically in skin color - is the amount of melanin in your skin. (This is a chemical your body produces and depending on how much, it darkens your skin tone)
Oh, a side topic, you mentioned that she wasn't even "American." why is this a problem? critically thinking, would you still be against this non-American stats if she were a white British woman, or from Sweden? or Scotland? or even from S.Africa, where (believe it or not) there are white Africans? (you know, being born in Africa and all). Is there something wrong with not being born in this country? Does it make them less of a person, less worthy? What is the driving fear here? Usually it is underlying and may not even be recognizable to you. This could take some therapy work to get to the cause of. Or a free write, whatever.
One of the reasons this topic got under my skin so much is that I am one of those 'horrible people' who is engaged in an interacial relationship. I have also been in others in the past. My current boyfriend is someone I guess people would consider hispanic, even though he was born here. He is just like every other person I've met on this planet (with the special exception of being special enough to love me ^^) and it would devestate me if anyone I knew felt that our relationship was 'wrong' simply because he is a little bit more tan than I am. I just don't know what I would do if my sister, one of the people closest to me in my family, decided to completely turn against me for this arbitrary reasoning and treat me and my family so awfully.
I sort of want to cut myself off here, but I will keep checking back (or you can PM me)
I wanted to finish by saying thank you for at least giving it a chance. You're taking a good step.
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Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 9:29 am
While I know that you're going to give this a chance, I must say that your sister isn't doing this just to spite you and your feelings. She's most likely doing this because she actually wants to have a family get together that she's never had before for once in her life. I found that to be extremely childish that you would even dare to mention she doesn't care about how you feel; It was probably more that she cares, wants you there and had hoped you would be mature enough to endure this situation and maybe, just maybe welcome a new member into your family. She is obviously trying to involve everyone in your family so no feelings are hurt. I know a lot of people dislike inner-racial relationships, but what you need to realize is our world is changing and becoming more open minded than it was in the past. Most of us recognize and accept gays, lesbians, transexuals, so on... Your parents were racist? Grand. Now you're making excuses for yourself. My father is racist, I've dealt with it my entire life. I opted not to follow in his path. It was a decision I made for myself. If I were racist, I certainly wouldn't blame it on my parents; I'd account for myself and acknowledge that is a personal decision I made on my own.
I certainly hope you're capable of grinning and bearing it. Imagine how terrified that girl must be; maybe you two can connect over xanex since I get the feeling she's probably going to have more anxiety over the whole situation than you are. Good luck.
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Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2008 6:15 pm
Lenoree..
Its been a few days and wondered if you have had a chance to think things through? You have received alot of very good advice from everyone here and Im sure everyone will agree, we hope that this is a very good experience for you as a person, as well as a member of the family...
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