Christian Wiccan - help?

[wolfkatt]

It seems to be an increasing "trend" to say one is a Christian Wiccan, Christo-Pagan, and other variations on this. I know it is possible to be a Catholic or Jewsish Witch ( as two examples) but I am confused with the whole "Christian Wiccan (CW)" revolution that seems to be growing. When I first heard of this "phenomena" several years ago - there was basically a revolt (if you will) from the Pagan community towards these CW proclaimers but now it seems those who originally "revolted" have either changed their minds or become silent.

Anyways, let me get to the point - is it possible to blend these two religions together? Or in doing so, are the people who proclaim to be CWs either refusing to let go of their Christian upbringing for fear of retribution from society or because different forms of Paganism are on the rise and "it's the cool thing to do"? Pretty much - I don't understand and would like to glean some info.  

[Morgandria]

wolfkatt

It seems to be an increasing "trend" to say one is a Christian Wiccan, Christo-Pagan, and other variations on this. I know it is possible to be a Catholic or Jewsish Witch ( as two examples) but I am confused with the whole "Christian Wiccan (CW)" revolution that seems to be growing. When I first heard of this "phenomena" several years ago - there was basically a revolt (if you will) from the Pagan community towards these CW proclaimers but now it seems those who originally "revolted" have either changed their minds or become silent.

Anyways, let me get to the point - is it possible to blend these two religions together? Or in doing so, are the people who proclaim to be CWs either refusing to let go of their Christian upbringing for fear of retribution from society or because different forms of Paganism are on the rise and "it's the cool thing to do"? Pretty much - I don't understand and would like to glean some info.

Wicca and Christianity are not compatible as religious practices - even if you don't 'cross the streams', it's impossible to practice either faith properly, if you're trying to practice both. You cannot follow both at the same time, plain and simple.

What a lot of people really mean to say, I believe, is that they're Christian witches - however they justify the practice of witchcraft within the realms of Christian faith. Witchcraft can play with all sorts of religions, or none at all. That's possible because witchcraft is a practice, not a religion on its' own.

I have never met any self-declared 'Christian Wiccans' who were actually Wiccan, for whatever that's worth.

I don't believe the revolt is over...just that it's not the newest, latest trend popping up all over the place anymore. It's either gotten old to argue with the people who assert their 'Christian Wicca' is valid, over and over and over, or those who were loudest leading the charge that they're 'Christian Wiccans' have actually gotten a clue. I'm sure it's just people are sick of arguing with idiots, not that the idiots have gone away.

As long as books are still published asserting all sorts of stupidity about Wicca, and doing 'whatever feels right', there will be people asserting that they're something they're not, and can't be.  

[PoeticVengeance]

Christianity treats any worship of any deity who isn't God as idolatry. Even in the case of Jesus, he's either simply venerated as the son of God or as a sort of wonky combination magic thing where he is God at the same time that God is God.

So it still somehow retains that monotheistic flair. Which means that combining Christianity with any theistic religion that doesn't already worship the God of Abraham is idolatry and very very bad in Christianity.  

[TeaDidikai]

Could someone explain what element of Wica makes it incompatible?  

[Nomad of Nowhere]

Really, crossing monotheism with polytheism has happened many times. Treating the god and goddess as one seems to happen fairly often, adding lesser deities to the main one happens, and sometimes people just ignore the rules against mixing and do it anyway. I don't see why you couldn't, though it doesn't mean I like it.  

[PoeticVengeance]

TeaDidikai

Could someone explain what element of Wica makes it incompatible?

It depends largely on whether you believe Christianity should stick to the Scriptures or not.

If yes, then Wicca's Gods (Wicca has two right?) are incompatible with the jealous Abrahamic God. To incorporate them would create a situation of idolatry and such a thing would be unacceptable while worshiping YHVH.

If no, then you could pull it off provided you didn't believe that YHVH would feel the normal jealousy and reject your worshiping of those other deities.

Wait... do Wiccans actually worship their deities? I admit I know very little of Wicca, so let me know where inaccuracies are cropping up.  

[Sir William Black]

It sounds like wanting to have your cake and eat it too.

You can tell your parents and your more uptight relations that you are christian, but you still can wear pentacles and go to your Silver Ravenwolf book club.  

[patch99329]

TeaDidikai

Could someone explain what element of Wica makes it incompatible?

I'd say it's more elements of christianity.  

[Cirrus Mystallow]

TeaDidikai

Could someone explain what element of Wica makes it incompatible?

Well in Wicca you must worship specific deties... and In Christianity you must worship YHVH... In Christianity you are informed by the 10 commandments that you are not to worship any other gods and therefore you could not be a Christian while believing in Wiccan deities.  

[Morgandria]

TeaDidikai

Could someone explain what element of Wica makes it incompatible?

Wica's emphasis on sex, and the free expression of such, is greatly in conflict with Christianity's various sects and their doctrines about sex - or so I feel. Perhaps I'm not as educated as I should be on the Christian side of things, but I've never been Christian so I don't know.

I am not sure what view Christianity takes of reincarnation. It's a central enough concept in Wicca that I think not having a belief in reincarnation makes it difficult to be Wiccan, and I assume believing in reincarnation is difficult to reconcile to Christianity.

PoeticVengeance

Wait... do Wiccans actually worship their deities? I admit I know very little of Wicca, so let me know where inaccuracies are cropping up.

It would help to know how you think of 'worship".

Teague the Druid

Really, crossing monotheism with polytheism has happened many times. Treating the god and goddess as one seems to happen fairly often, adding lesser deities to the main one happens, and sometimes people just ignore the rules against mixing and do it anyway. I don't see why you couldn't, though it doesn't mean I like it.

It happens with soft polytheism, at least. I'm not a soft polytheist. Wicca, as I understand it, is not soft-polythestic either. The God and Goddess of Wicca are specific deities, with specific names - they're just not spoken of with non-initiates. We use honorifics like 'Lord' and 'Lady
for them in situations with non-initiates, which leads to people assuming that they're soft-polytheistic. No-one who writes those "Wiccan" books would ever point out that Wicca is oathbound and initiatory, and the Lord and Lady have specific names. They'd stop selling books, that way.

Fusing the Lord and Lady together into a single God/dess, or slapping someone else's name on them, would be incredibly rude and inaccurate. Maybe it works with other paths, but it wouldn't work in Wicca.  

[TheDisreputableDog]

Cirrus Mystallow

In Christianity you are informed by the 10 commandments that you are not to worship any other gods and therefore you could not be a Christian while believing in Wiccan deities.

It doesn't actually say that, does it? Isn't it more like "you shall have no gods before God" and "don't worship images"? So, you can't worship anything that's literally a statue, and YHVH-god has to come first. But I could just be making things up.  

[TeaDidikai]

Morgandria

Wica's emphasis on sex, and the free expression of such, is greatly in conflict with Christianity's various sects and their doctrines about sex - or so I feel.

This is what I wanted to know. Thanks.

I'm well versed enough with Christendom that I can see why individuals would assume based on generic Christian doctrine why it is incompatible. I wanted to know what doctrines of The Wica made The Wica feel such.

So basically- sex. (Ete has a delightful paper on Christian reincarnation that would work just fine within the context of a Reconstructionist Christian tradition)

Is there anything else that comes to mind?  

[wolfkatt]

Thanks for all the responses so far. You're all fueling me with good info to bring up when I feel a time is right (and in a different forum). I don't practice Wicca or Christianity - though I was raised Catholic and did a lot of "extracurricular" studies in various sects of Christianity. I have not been initiated through a Wiccan coven - only know what I know about Wicca through the bit of info gleaned from some books and through a friend/practitioner who has been initiated in a Wiccan coven (without revealing any of the "mysteries" she is oath-bound to protect).

I have battled with this concept in my own mind and with discussions with my husband - me being a witch and he a Christian. Neither of us can see how melding the two religions can work appropriately and still being in keeping with some of the core concepts of each separate religion - two of the points being what was brought up in this discussion already - YVWH being a jealous God and the freedom/restrictions on the role of sex.

Also, for the person who mentioned something about worshipping other gods being in statue form - that is not necessarily the case. Statue form is the easiest to visualize but the worshipping of other "gods" can come in the form of another person or money or any other concept that one may deem of huge importance in their life.  

[TeaDidikai]

wolfkatt

I have battled with this concept in my own mind and with discussions with my husband - me being a witch and he a Christian. Neither of us can see how melding the two religions can work appropriately and still being in keeping with some of the core concepts of each separate religion - two of the points being what was brought up in this discussion already - YVWH being a jealous God and the freedom/restrictions on the role of sex.

Blending Witchcraft and Christendom isn't hard at all. But then, Witchcraft and Wica are not synonyms.  

[MoonJeli]

TeaDidikai

Morgandria

Wica's emphasis on sex, and the free expression of such, is greatly in conflict with Christianity's various sects and their doctrines about sex - or so I feel.

This is what I wanted to know. Thanks.

I'm well versed enough with Christendom that I can see why individuals would assume based on generic Christian doctrine why it is incompatible. I wanted to know what doctrines of The Wica made The Wica feel such.

So basically- sex. (Ete has a delightful paper on Christian reincarnation that would work just fine within the context of a Reconstructionist Christian tradition)

Is there anything else that comes to mind?

I always believed the major point of conflict was that all Wiccans are clergy of two specific deities (and the practice is for the gods and being mastered by the gods), and the Christian doctrine to have no god before YHVH. Am I misunderstanding the direct conflict between these two religions?