Breeding Questions & Suggestions

[Meeki]

Kamiki

Talaye

Last thing from me for the night...

On the topic of edits:

Why -should- 100% omgedits be passed on just because you paid for the parents to get them? I think that the gen2 (gen whatever) Soqs that get little things here and there instead of full blown edits are more charming in the long run. They have their own characteristics and they aren't clones of the parents... Unless that's what you're looking for, of course; just breeding for traits and edits that you can then pass on to whatever you decide to breed next.

Essentially I agree - But here's the thing - with the current why edits are rolled the babies WOULDN'T get "little things there and there" unless its in the coloring. They either HAVE edits. Or don't. I don't think it has anything to do with the how much you paid for the parents. Some of the prettiest edited Soquili have been 2nd gen themselves (see Shen, Ezriel, Gabriel, Bedlam, Tisiphone, ect etc etc).

But I think if you have a really unique and edited Soquili. I'm going to use Reaper as an example because he's bred before and think he's cool and a good example. He's got some very unique and distinct edits. Now if he were to breed in theory with an unedited mare, as the current system is, his babies would have 45% chance to get any edits, 55% to get none at all. This is what I think is where the combining the difficulties of the parents would be more interesting if ALL babies got like... 50% or even 25% of his edits instead of some babies getting edits and some not getting any edits at all. Like his son Ezriel. He's far from a "clone" of his Daddy, but he's obviously shows traits from such a unique parent and in effect, makes him completely striking and interesting in his own way.

These are the "little things" I think are neat to be passed down from generation to generation. It doesn't have to be anything elaborate or full blown - even the smallest edits can make a Soquili look so interesting, and I just wish there was more a chance the breeders could so with that.

I have mixed feelings on this. While, I think the edits do make one striking at times, I think Meera came out REALLY beautiful too though she has NO edits whatsoever. ALL of her features are racial and I don't think she's any less awesome than her brothers, at least in my opinion. I don't think edits are necessary or should be on every pet just because one of the parents has them.

I really think that Meera came out just as lovely and awesome as her brothers despite having no edits and it does kind of bum me that Reaper/Ezriel was used in an example because of edits. I know she's the odd one out, but I think she's also a prime example of how pretty a pet can come out in a breeding, despite being the one without the edits.

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It would be nice to factor in the grandparents more at times but I agree with Kamiki on that it should be optional. I think most people do go into a breeding for the parents traits more often than not and sometimes a grandparent can throw it out of whack.  

[Kamiki]

Meera is beautiful Meeki please don't that that the wrong way. And unedits can be amazing.

In theory, had Reaper not bread with an Angeni, but a regular, it would still be possible at the offspring could not show any traits at all. Meera has it got a lot of her Angeni heritage, so there's something there more than just colors that she carries on. She's also mixed, having Angeni wings and a kalona tail, so while they aren't edited, they certainly make her unique. I know there have been some example recently where two NON-regular parents have bred and come up with only regular, unedited babies. So when I say edits, I'm kind of lumping in racial traits (like angeni wings, etc) in the mix, so perhaps that wasn't the best example. Ezriel just sticks out in my mind, because even though he's not uber-edited, you can take one look at him and immediately know his parentage, which I think is the ideal effect of a breeding.

I guess the point I'm trying to make is that I think it should be more up to the breeder/colorist than the roll of the dice. If that makes any sense. And that the colorist shouldn't have to feel pressured to do OMGEDITS on all the babies if one of the parents is heavily edited... but it would nice if they could choose a few traits to make them unique  

[Kamiki]

On the other end of the pendulum swing (I'm chatty tonight since I couldn't sleep >.>), if you take the "dice determine the edits" out of the mix, then it gives colorists a bit more control over breedings. Someone mentioned it briefly earlier - but if colorists determined edits and not a dice roll, then if they are pressed for time/creative juices in a month, but still want to do a raffle, they could chose to do a "NO EDITS" breeding raffle.

Any couples you enter wouldn't get edits, period. There's an "unedited" version of every rare kind of Soquili, and you could mix and match the unedited features, but anyone who chose to enter that raffle would no not to expect edits on the babies.  

[Harperking]

Most of my ideas have been stated already, but I am gonna just add my weight to them smile

The person who wins a raffle should not be barred from entering any more the rest of the month. They can just have one pair entered into a raffle the rest of the month. Period. It is up to them as to whether they enter it or their breeding partner enters. Colorists sometimes have surprise short raffles, should Foalen and our Dancer/Ayita be penalized, for example, if I had happened to win a spot earlier for Beat & I with Daze/Ksapa and Foalen was not online and I am?

On the other side of that coin, if I have two pairs that I am actively working on getting baskets with, why can't their respective owners enter them into the raffle if I am not there. Again, you are penalizing someone for something totally out of thier control for no reall reason. If someone is that worried about making sure that they have a spot in raffles for them to enter themselves - then make sure that is clear when you give out permission for your soq to breed. (As in "Bob can breed his mare Aercher to my stallion Maush at any time unless there is already a pair entered into the raffle already by someone other than myself.")

Edits are a sticky subject. I admit I am not a fan of many of the OMG heavily edited ones - I like a cleaner look. I would think that a few minor things would pass down, but very rarely a heavier edit. It would depend on the edit, actually. There are accessories - clothing, armor, jewelry, etc - that I would think would rarely be passed because, well, they are things. Actual traits - hair, horns, wing, glowy eyes, fangs - those would be more likely because they would be tied into genetically.

And I love the idea of looking at the grandparents to snag some markings or perhaps a latent wing gene smile On that same note, children of a pure pair (a pair that has no ancestry like Wambli/Jewel for example) should always have children with some sign of rarity to them - even as little as Lu's tail. It hasn't happened often, but every now and then there has been a reg foal born from such couples and I kinda go WTF did that come from!

edit - the thought of taking the dice roll out of determining edits may sound good in theory, but it will inevitably lead to claims of favoritism confused I believe that was why it was added.  

[Kamiki]

Harperking

edit - the thought of taking the dice roll out of determining edits may sound good in theory, but it will inevitably lead to claims of favoritism confused I believe that was why it was added.

That's why I suggested the rating system, so IF there were two parents that have edits, none of the babies could have no edits at all, because I think thats a little unfair (like, anti-favoritism. It wouldn't be fair to skimp on edits because you don't like who you are doing the breeding for). But as far as favoritism in the other direction - I've seen it, and I think it happens...while it can be annoying... personally I'd rather see the breeders have MORE freedom and creativity even if favoritism comes along with it, then seeing them so stifled/restricted the way things are now.  

[endejester]

I...really don't feel that restricted by the dice myself actually. Most of the time they roll the way I would have created the foal anyhow. I've only, in all this time gotten one roll that I considered 'bad'.


I'm afraid though, even co-owning 90% of my soquili that I do however, support the co-ownership limitations.

But I do look forward to trying again with Skye for the next raffle. <3 I think its fair enough for me to give up chances with some I co-own because I'm trying with pairs I really want to see have baskets.  

[Meeki]

Kamiki

Meera is beautiful Meeki please don't that that the wrong way. And unedits can be amazing.

In theory, had Reaper not bread with an Angeni, but a regular, it would still be possible at the offspring could not show any traits at all. Meera has it got a lot of her Angeni heritage, so there's something there more than just colors that she carries on. She's also mixed, having Angeni wings and a kalona tail, so while they aren't edited, they certainly make her unique. I know there have been some example recently where two NON-regular parents have bred and come up with only regular, unedited babies. So when I say edits, I'm kind of lumping in racial traits (like angeni wings, etc) in the mix, so perhaps that wasn't the best example. Ezriel just sticks out in my mind, because even though he's not uber-edited, you can take one look at him and immediately know his parentage, which I think is the ideal effect of a breeding.

I guess the point I'm trying to make is that I think it should be more up to the breeder/colorist than the roll of the dice. If that makes any sense. And that the colorist shouldn't have to feel pressured to do OMGEDITS on all the babies if one of the parents is heavily edited... but it would nice if they could choose a few traits to make them unique

Ok, I thought you were meaning things like the custom hair, spikes etc. I agree, I am not fond of the dice rolling at all. I know that was added in to make it more fair to everyone but it does suck out the imagination of the colorist more, I think. Not to mention having to roll it all has got to be a drag.

On that level, I really think a rating system WOULD work really well and give the colorists more imagination. My only worry is that it could be more work, guaranteeing all the pets have edits. On the other hand, if one of those babies would have come out with super edits, it could end up being less work or at the least, the same amount. So it's something I do think could work. The only thing I am kind of iffy on is the clothes. I really don't think clothes should be genetic though I understand it can be cute.

I also think colorists should have free reign to randomly choose genders of the breedings. It seems so pointless (at least to me) to roll the genders since the parents aren't going to know what they have anyway unless they bribe. If someone feels like doing two boys, or two girls, or one boy or one girl. they should. More reign = more fun for the colorists, I'd think.  

[Meeki]

Maybe an option of rolling dice or using a rating system for a colorist? surprised  

[endejester]

Option could work, to have a choise depending on the pair we were looking at?
But again there may be questions of favoritism if someone isn't satisfied with the children. Not that that would be new, we do try but with so many variants in taste on what makes an awesome soq... I wonder if there is such a thing as a system that would satisfy everyone?

I do like the dice system though, perhaps if we tweeked the % of edit-passability dependant on how highly an parent is edited? I'd argue there should still not be 100% just becuase there is always a possibility of something unexpected. (and I think that adds to it) But if the colorists could lay out %s from a given list depending on how complex they assess the edits at, it might add another layer of interest to the breedings?  

[Meeki]

Well, in the event of a dice roll, favoritism would fall flat as that's the sure fire, non-disputable way.

If it was a rating system, all the pets would have edits, all average, none more or less than the other. They might be different edits in the end, but if it looks like the same amount of work went into them, I really think favoritism would be a waste of time there too.

I think it would only be seen as favoritism if someone went for like the dice roll for breedings 1, 2 and 3, but then chose the rating system for breeding 4 (which guarantees edits in all pets instead of a chance for none at all) and it just happened to be the one that involved friends.

If a colorist had the option to choose, they could stick with it for all breedings they take under their belt for that raffle. To change it up, one month they could accept breedings under the rating system, and then the next they could do their breedings via dice roll. As long as it was done for that entire breeding set, I really don't think favoritism could be a possible accusation, at least not one that would hold any weight to it.

And of course, one could simply choose one way over the other and never stray from it!

Sorry if it comes off confusing or if I'm butting in on your suggestion at all Kamiki.  

[Sabin Duvert]

I personally think that the rating system sounds more fair and gives more options to the colorist - but I do think if yeah, they could pick between the systems, it should carry over for the entirety of the raffle set and if there are more than one way to go about it, it should be mentioned. Not that I think people will choose to abstain from entering a breeding raffle, but it's nice to know.

But I do like the rating system even over a weighted percentage roll because it allows colorists to pass on minor "nods" from a more heavily edited parent - instead of turning edits into an all or nothing kinda thing.

EDIT - and randomly, I can totally understand people's 0.o about traits from clothing passing down to offspring, but I do kinda like it - it's made for some really cute nods like the jacket-sleeves that Ende did on the Dante babies, and pieces of jewlerey. They're magical horses and it's not like we're following genetic patterns anyway.
I've even seen some offspring take inspiration in their coloring from trappings or pieces of clothing from the adults - and I think that's really clever too - like Arcadia has a lot of her coloration from the accessory of her mother, Amaterasu. I know that that isn't an edit - but I don't think it's a bad thing for colorists to have the realm of costuming open to them as an inspiration.

And Cuter, I don't think Kamiki meant anything by using you as an example of co-owning pairs 0.o I think she was just saying that even Hatter had friends she co-owned things with herself.  

[endejester]

I don't think anyone likes Having their names tossed around actually. I'm sure kamiki didn't even if it was I'm afraid a convenient example? She's not the only one But your both well known for having a lot of co-owned soq. So I'm afraid even for me your one of the first to come to mind even though I too co-own the majority of mine.

It's a touchy area to use names even if well intended.


I think the problem with the 'rating system' and I can understand, with as many heavy edited soquili as you have, that you would favor a system that guaranteed the edits be passed down.
I'll be honest, if Fauno breeds I'd like to see him pass on traits, Hopefully a little more than Taiki did (while his kids were beautiful, and I can see where the raitign system would have -potentially- been seen as 'more adventagious' for me)


But for utter objectivity I'd still have to side with the die-rolls even if the percentages were 'tweeked' to allow a greater chance for heavy-edited soq to pass on their 'mutated' traits as it were. (or clothing, or jewelry depending on the colorist and their inspiration from the given rolls)  

[Chaifuzz]

I think that the lowest luck would be a good idea. People could say how long they've been trying, and then the one who had been trying the most gets a slot. And they've BEEN trying, some people I know tried for 9 months before they got a slot, and others, it was one breeding raffle -prods Qin and Hsien- Sometimes it just works out that way, and its not unfair to have a lowest luck, why not REWARD the people who have been so dedicated to the shop and stick it out for a LONG time just to get a breeding, and probably never complained they didn't win, or cursed, or anything. (Saying, "Oh darn, maybe next time" I wouldn't classify as complaining, just a statement)  

[endejester]

Wouldn't there be a variance in opinions about what defined 'complaining' though?
(just to be devils advocate)