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Alchemist of the Twilight
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 Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 1:10 pm
In my personal opinion, I believe the world would be a better place without religion.
I mean, in WWII, Hitler killed the Jews, and put them in concentration camps and all. (Just as a note I didn't learn much about WWII yet)
Some people spend hours in a temple/church/etc. worshiping a figure we do not even know exists.
And I'm a person who, to believe something, has to see proof of it.
Now I grew up with a non religious family, with an abusive father, and I used to pray, every night, if he could change and show me compassion for once.
I never got a reply; my father never changed. Ever since, I merely took religion as an...instability of the mind, and I thought that everyone must be blind (metaphorically speaking, of course) to not see what I see. I believe that everything that happens is a chain of coincidences and choices, and that we shouldn't be "thanking God" for something because it is something we did, not Him.
At church, they say that "God loves everyone" But why has he ignored me? Has he been ignoring me? Does He exist?
I realize I kind of drafted away from religion and towards the existence of God.
So just discuss and all...
(I'm sleepy at the moment, so if something does not make sense (grammatically) then point it out so I can change it)
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Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 6:31 pm
What was the point in referencing World War Two? I merely wonder because you follow it with nothing. If you intended to say that, without their religion, Jewish people would have been spared, then you are wrong. The Nazis and Hitler hoped for an Aryan supremacy world-wide. I've never "needed" God or not had a god, I suppose. It depends upon how you interpret it. I am not religious, so I assume that I have never needed a god, someone who is, though, might say that I have never realized what God was doing for me. In any case, God or god or whom-/what-ever is often a source of morals and, in turbulent times, I am glad that people look to the Love of their deity as opposed to the blood of their victims (excepting, of course, those religions who promote this). b
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Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2007 6:04 am
I too am at a crossroads, as it were... I grew up in a Christian house with whatever passed for good moral fiber back in the 50's, even though it was the 90's. I wasn't allowed to watch The Simpsons, South Park, any of that...
Then my dad's Post TRaumatic Stress Disorder appeared and his personality changed... Though never overly religious to begin with, we went to church and sometimes even remembered to pray over meals.
then he changed.
He read his Bible every night, no matter what. Pleas for help on homework went unheard or were ignored until he finished reading the "good" book. I failed my first math class that year.
We now HAD to go to church, which makes nothing any fun. I started playing sick, but he made me read a passage out of the bible and memorize it so we could discuss it when he got home.
We moved churches many times in the next few years, trying to find one that matched his viewpoints on doctrinal issues. My sister and I were only worried about finding a youth group that didn't hate us. We never did succeed.
Eventually he became fanatical, his formerly republican views became radically right wing.... although he's registered independent because no one goes far enough....
His zealotry forced myself and my mother away... my sister was crazy to begin with, so her reaction was merely an echo of my own.
I can barely summon enough shreds of religiosity around me to call myself Christian. My dad is the kind of follower that would have been smited for the good of the rest.
I'm pretty sure there's a higher power somewhere.. I prescribe to the "Deus Abscoditas" form of creation, as well as having a few heretical views on other things.
I NEED to belive there's something else, mainly because I cannot wrap my mind around nothing. When we die, we just cease to exist? I can;t handle that, and I know it. My cushion, if you will, is that somewhere there's something to catch us when we fall. Maybe I'm just worshipping a Great Galactic Pillow, but I need something.
My faith, if it can even be called that, is now an intensely private thing. I do not attend church, though I will be married in one, and I read ALL holy writings regardless of their affiliations. I then compile my own beliefs based on the history and what has been/can be proven or statistically shown to be probable. I'm also a dedicated Pastafarian, but His Noodly Appendages aren't comforting enough for me... wink
Without religion we would have found something else to fight over... skin color was always a favorite back in the day, as was who was the biggest and baddest conqueror...
RAmen.....
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Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2007 2:08 pm
Religion is not the sedative of the people; it's the crutch. And believe me, there are a lot of cripples out there. Religion brings more hope than anything else. Would you rob the citizens of this planet that simple luxury?
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Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 1:24 am
Organized religion isn't a crutch... organized religion is a drug, and it's clergy and followers are pushers. Organized religion, be it Christianity, Judaism, Islam, or any of these other dogmatic groups that want to shove themselves down your throat any time you want to seek your own enlightenment and learning, be it through druidic studies, agnostic thoughts, or atheist viewpoints, they want to try and tell you "We can save your immortal soul, you filthy leper."
I can appreciate the base message, the core, underneath all this doctrinal crap, all the trappings man has hauled in and used to allow himself power over the "flock".
Kind of fitting, actually, one of the most insulting things I ever saw when I was going through my confirmation class...
Jesus, the Good Shepard... Christianity has no qualms about telling you that you are a thoughtless animal, incapable of fending for yourself, and only as useful as the resources you provide for their use. Nothing like teaching submission to the poor, ignorant masses, so one can ply their own political agenda on anyone who just might not agree.
I should add here that Catholicism is the world's largest for-profit organization in the world. Ahh, how the shepard hath led the sheep astray.
The Muslims are no better, radical extremists have the whole Middle East in an uproar... it just changes from week to week. At least they have a reason to be pissed off about whitey moving in... they had lands that, by all political rights, belonged to them. And i'm going back further than the end of WW2, although that, in and of itself was a joke. Great Britain essentially pushed the population of Palistine into the 2 dumpiest sections of the country, gave free reign to the European jews, who had been oppressed by other europeans, and gave them absolutely no say in the matter.
The muslims have hated the western world since the great crusades, as we have CONSTANTLY been interfereing in matters over there for the past 800 years. Thing is, it's always been about religion... it's all a matter of if your god is some big invisible man, or a few slips of green paper.
Religion isn't a shield, it's something to hide behind... something that justifies inhumanity, abuse, and hate. Ashamed of something? Make it some abhorrant sin... don't try to understand it, just make it an embarassment. Can't understand what the intellegensia is telling you? They must be heretics. Darwin couldn't have been right, despite the fact that Mendelev (sp) made a strong point to prove that genetics and nature go hand in hand in the develoment of a species, and the placement of said species... we just need to keep looking for the Garden of Eden, so we can prove that all of the life on earth just sort of spontaneously generated.
Amazing how ignorant it all sounds when broken down without all the flowery language... isn't it?
You can't rob an addict of hope, you can't steal what's not there.
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Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 3:49 am
A world without religions wont work any better that the present world.
what you need,
is a world of people who can understand each others religion and respect them,
regardless of their own believes.
Pretty damn simple.
-Nih-
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Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 4:49 am
I came to steal your heart away...Dronze had it exactly correct. Being a Christian I believe in the whole G-man but I don't believe it was spontaneously generated from eden. We have proof of the big bang and intelligent design. Dronze, here is a thought for you. God decided randomly generating the earth with everything on it was a waste of his time so he decided to blow up a rival god (a.k.a. God isn't a god but a being in an upper realm) and spewing his guts across the universe. Humanity is generally a plague, We enter a location. Sap it of resources, Kill of its wild-life (long period of time), and then move on to the next location. Technology hinders this process of course but we are slowly sapping the earth of what energy it has, We are un-able to stop this or even slow this down so I see humanitarians as a bunch of fools. Religion is as the church says "A pair of open arms for the lost." The Doctrine is one for a mental patient, Quote: "If you love your mother or father more than me, you are not accepted in heaven"
Actual quote from the bible. (Mathew 13 I believe without looking -I'll get the certification of authenticity in the next post I have exams to walk to-)
The church is a group of crazy people who want stability so they made up an imaginary (EQUALIZER) to make everything make sense and not question anything. My pastor has said I have heretic thoughts but I have not implemented any of them into our service. I have had 3 hour discussions over this where we are willing to attack each other but we haven't. If religion isn't for you, don't ruin it for others. Although we might not agree its there equalizer and they need it as much as americans need television, The internet, Pets, and Mcdonalds.
(What was the point of the WWII reference in the 1st post. I see relevance but it does not further the topic~)...I walked away with a Soul Mate
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Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 11:18 am
"Religion is the opiate of the masses." --Nietzsche
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Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 2:51 pm
What you say about organized religion is true, I'll admit it. The institutions are corrupt. But what of unorganized religion? What of those who believe in a faith who do not go to church, and/or do not perform customs? What of those who merely keep the ideals connected to a figurehead in the back of their minds for reference? 'Tis not entirely fair to paint all things with the same brush.
Also, have you not considered the Mormon faith in your logic? From my research, 'twould seem your quarrels with the other faiths seem irrational when applied to their doctrine.
Now, I disagree with all you have said, except in regards to Scientology.
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Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 6:21 pm
Me?
Wow
Mobius you just shot down my intelligent response, I feel un-loved V.V
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Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 7:34 pm
It could be worse, Dammie. Boxman could've shot you down instead.
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Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2007 7:02 pm
I could of at least yelled at him and not feel bad.
~oh well~
Mobius we lie on the opposite sides of the spectrums, while you reside in darkness I would reside in light. While you aim for balance I attempt to create a balance out of everyone else. Your life revolves around chaos while I try to fix it~
*le sigh*
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Posted: Sat Dec 22, 2007 4:50 pm
And that, in itself, is Balance. We are Yin and Yang; two forces working for and against each other in the pursuit of similar causes. Rejoice. I live in darkness because it allows true beauty to shine as light; when all appearances and stereotypes are invisible, the heart and soul of a person becomes evident. Only by gauging your darkness can you create a contrast with which you can measure your light.
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Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2007 8:34 pm
Again with this balance... I believe that organization as a subject has little to do with corruption, but the type of organization is paramount. b
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Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2007 7:30 am
Mobius Nightshade And that, in itself, is Balance. We are Yin and Yang; two forces working for and against each other in the pursuit of similar causes. Rejoice. I live in darkness because it allows true beauty to shine as light; when all appearances and stereotypes are invisible, the heart and soul of a person becomes evident. Only by gauging your darkness can you create a contrast with which you can measure your light.
Yin and Yang shall fight till one is destroyed, darkness only consumes what you are blind to my young mobius. You tread in a dangerous area of life while I tread in ignorance. You have seen the worst as have I but you seem to revel in the fact that it will happen eventually while I strive to prevent or it or even prolong it~
@bella
I'm starting to buy into this balance thing as a lesser part of life not a religion
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