Insulting the elements

[Bastemhet]

In a book I read, (can't remember which one now) it said I should never blow a flame out because that's rude to the element of fire.

Personally I think this is just a little bit silly, because whether you snuff fire out or blow it out, it goes out at your will all the same. What is the difference? Is there one?

What do you all personally practice?  

[PurpleDragonsGems]

I read that in one of Scott Cuningham's books. Wicca: A Guide for the Solictary Practitioner if I remember correctly.


I never really belived that, because anyway you put a fire out, its using one element against another.  

[TeaDidikai]

It was in Wicca: A Guide.

To be honest- there are some other reasons not to do that- both pragmatic and cultural in some cases.

However- the animist in me says that if you're worried about offending a given element- you might ask it if it would be offended.  

[Bastemhet]

What would those other reasons be?

And...I find the proposition of asking fire difficult, to say the least. How would I know what its response is? How do I even know that fire has likes and dislikes? What should make me think it has conscious thought and reasoning skills, rather than just the need to consume?  

[TeaDidikai]

Sophist

What would those other reasons be?

Less smoke for a start. Less chance of splattering wax for another.

I recall a Slavic folktale (it was the cultural equivalent of a "Jack" tale) that resulted in Jack never blowing candle flames out because it welcomed trouble.

There is some Rroma folktales akin to it as well, but then- fire has a deep cultural meaning.

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And...I find the proposition of asking fire difficult, to say the least. How would I know what its response is? How do I even know that fire has likes and dislikes?

Listen.

It might also come as UPG.

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What should make me think it has conscious thought and reasoning skills, rather than just the need to consume?

Don't know. If you're not an animist- I wouldn't do it myself.  

[Starlock]

There might be some reasons for that in the elemental rotation - namely, by going from fire to air you're going against the usual cycle which could be seen as a no-no. But given that few modern occult and Pagan sources out get the rotation right in the first place (or are even aware that there IS a rotation), this probably isn't the source for the taboo.

It might have more to do with a guideline in the practice of candle magic: never use a candle for more than one spell. With that, you shouldn't be blowing OR snuffing; you let the candle burn down until it extinguishes.

Overall, not sure about the origination on this one.  

[TeaDidikai]

Starlock

There might be some reasons for that in the elemental rotation - namely, by going from fire to air you're going against the usual cycle which could be seen as a no-no. But given that few modern occult and Pagan sources out get the rotation right in the first place (or are even aware that there IS a rotation), this probably isn't the source for the taboo.

I actually completely disagree with this. Many people use a counter clockwise motion for banishing. Thus fire to air would make perfect sense.

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It might have more to do with a guideline in the practice of candle magic: never use a candle for more than one spell. With that, you shouldn't be blowing OR snuffing; you let the candle burn down until it extinguishes.

Which tradition would this be?

I know many traditions that encourage reusing candles.  

[Starlock]

The counterclockwise motion can have slightly different implications in the rotation, but varied views on this are to be expected. If for instance you saw it as ideal for banishing, you could either see it as you phrased, or say to yourself 'gee, if I blow out the candle for my spell and that's banishing... am I then banishing the spell I just did? Oops...' Depends on how each practitioner develops their own system of magic.

I'm unsure of specific traditions that have stated that during candle magic, one should let the candle burn out. I just remember it was something I encountered in various 101 books and basic candle magic books. Don't think any of those sources associated with a specific tradition. I don't abide by that rule myself anyway.  

[Fiddlers Green]

Ooh...
I should go dig up my charts of creative and destructive cycles between quadra-partate and quinta-partate elemental schemas! (aka, diagrams of positive and negative relationships between elements in 4 and 5 element schemed systems). It was the basis of my first geomancy treatise. 3nodding

Also, as far as offending an element... Hmm... is this a thought that blowing out a candle offends all fire everywhere?  

[TeaDidikai]

Fiddlers Green

Also, as far as offending an element... Hmm... is this a thought that blowing out a candle offends all fire everywhere?

Wouldn't be so in my tradition.  

[Fiddlers Green]

TeaDidikai

Wouldn't be so in my tradition.

What about in that text that spawned this line of inquirey?
Wicca: A Guide, was it?  

[TeaDidikai]

Fiddlers Green

What about in that text that spawned this line of inquirey?
Wicca: A Guide, was it?

Cunningham is fuzzy.

His whole thing is "Do what feels right... but don't do this because it's wrong!" I almost threw his crystal book at the wall when I read his moral masturbation on pearls. rolleyes  

[Fiddlers Green]

Pearls?
Moral self pleasure...?
How does one of these things lead to another...?

But thank you for the clarification.
As for my response to the original post, I'll blow a candle out, quick and clean, before I smother it. I would want the fire to give me a quick death, rather than a slow one. And one from direct action, rather than denial of oxygen. wink  

[TeaDidikai]

Fiddlers Green

Pearls?
Moral self pleasure...?
How does one of these things lead to another...?

I'd tell you- but this is a PG13 forum.

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But thank you for the clarification.
As for my response to the original post, I'll blow a candle out, quick and clean, before I smother it. I would want the fire to give me a quick death, rather than a slow one. And one from direct action, rather than denial of oxygen. wink

Huh. The birthday candles I blow out never seem to go quickly and quietly.

Snuffing with finger tips is how I end any awakened flame.  

[Fiddlers Green]

Fair enough Tea, just remind me to ask you in person or over the phone. 3nodding

Hmm... mayhaps they are tenacious.
I prefer to leave my flame asleep as it were, the thought of something so hungry active is... not really to my tastes. sweatdrop
Play with fire and get burned is an adage I hold to in this regard.