Magic vs Prayer

[TeaDidikai]

Shorti Rock

in all of my work, magickal and not, i do what feels right.

Makes sense. Thelema is all about "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law..." And about breaking other's prophets and gods through torture.

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No 2 actions are the same, so who is to truly say what is right vs what is wrong, and why does it have to be magic vs prayer? can they not be one and the same?

Can magic and prayer be the same?

What definitions are you using for magic and what for prayer?

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one's will is how one accomplishes anything so prayers must be magickal... and in some way magic must be prayer...does that make any sense to anyone?

Why would you assume that prayer involves Will? Or are you including little W will, as in the will to move one's thoughts?

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"and harm none, do what ye will" live by it...("harm none" includes yourself as well)

That sure as heck isn't my number one rule. In fact- I find it to be a very sloppy rule. It makes no distinction between harm and hurt, further- blessing to do that which does not harm is not the same as prohibition against doing harm.  

[patch99329]

Shorti Rock

number one rule, "and harm none, do what ye will" live by it...("harm none" includes yourself as well)

I don't quite understand.
Were you suggesting this rule should apply to all of our workings, or just yours?

It holds no significance to me.  

[Shorti Rock]

Can magic and prayer be the same? There is no simple answer to that question, it is my personal view.

Or are you including little W will, as in the will to move one's thoughts?--yes

"and harm none, do what ye will" live by it...("harm none" includes yourself as well): That sure as heck isn't my number one rule. In fact- I find it to be a very sloppy rule. It makes no distinction between harm and hurt, further- blessing to do that which does not harm is not the same as prohibition against doing harm" __ This one i can see how it can be a sloppy rule, yes, but its a simple idea that makes sense to me. Every one has something that they hold to, this is just one of mine...  

[TeaDidikai]

Hey Shorti? How do you define Prayer and how do you define Magic?

Shorti Rock

This one i can see how it can be a sloppy rule, yes, but its a simple idea that makes sense to me. Every one has something that they hold to, this is just one of mine...

Might I suggest phrasing it differently? When you look at the words themselves, they do not seem to express what your actual guideline is.


For one- let's look at it in the context of your intention.

"And it harm none"
How do you judge harm?

Merriam Webster defines harm as "physical or mental damage".


So- if you had a friend who was addicted to heroin you would be harming them if you did not help them get their next fix. Withdrawals can be very dangerous and can even drive people insane.

Now- when we actually look at the meanings of the words- "And it harm none, do as ye will"- we see that it means something very different.

"And it harm none" Okay- as long as it doesn't harm anyone, "Do what ye will", do what you are inclined to. It becomes very clear that it is blanket permission to do anything that doesn't harm someone. You need not think about doing things that do not harm- only about things that would do harm. However- had it been designed to prohibit harm, it would have been phrased "Do no harm".

It is all well and good to have a code of ethnics- however, one must understand what one is saying and the meanings there of.