What I have to say about Gerald Gardner

[Will-Nacht]

Now, I promise I'm not trying to make anyone mad or anything, but I'd just like to say what's on my mind and maybe get some of my facts straight if any details are hazy or incorrect. (They probably will be hazy, I'll try not to be incorrect)

Gardner started reviving the Craft in the 50's and it seems to me that he became a sort of self-elected Wicca-Pope. From what I've gathered on him, he believed in a very elitist witch society, one where is was black and white whether someone could or couldn't be a witch. He also condemned many acts and behaviors as being wrong, but the Golden Rule itself is "An it harm none, do what ye will." (He was quoted later by one in his own coven by yelling "A homosexual can never be a witch!")

As well as condemning things, he also attempted to establish a set of rules or a holy book for that was required for a "real" witch to follow. The Craft is supposed to be about finding your own truth and your own path, practicing how you please and doing whatever you feel brings you closer to the God(s) and Goddess(es), provided it isn't harming anyone. I know that he's the one that started calling it Wicca, and if the name of the religion is the issue, he and his followers can have it, and I'll just practice as a solitary Pagan, with no official religious title.

In my opinion it's when religions start forming set rules to follow and denying the individual's right to discover their own truth and do things as differently as they please is where the religion turns sour.

All of us do have Gardner to thank, however, for the revival of Paganism, and more specifically Witchcraft, so it is more known and accepted in mainstream society. Most of us would have never even heard of Wicca if it weren't for Gardner's work, even though I don't agree with him on many levels.

So do you agree with me, or not? I hope I haven't angered anybody, but if I have, so be it. I want to discuss this with others as much as I wanted to say it in the first place. If you disagree with me totally, post or send me a PM and I'll have an intelligent debate with you, and maybe you can clear up details you may think I know nothing about.  

[TeaDidikai]

Will-Nacht

Gardner started reviving the Craft in the 50's and it seems to me that he became a sort of self-elected Wicca-Pope.

Inaccurate.
Depending on who you speak to- Gardner either was initiated into a coven, or created his own coven and Wicca, the Religion from a mix of mysticism from YHVH's faiths, Hellenic elemental systems, information from the Rroma and by mixing Slavic, Norse and Celtic holidays.

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From what I've gathered on him, he believed in a very elitist witch society, one where is was black and white whether someone could or couldn't be a witch.

Gardner made no claims to speak for witches as a whole. He did lay down the rules for people who wished to belong to the Religion he addressed/created.

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He also condemned many acts and behaviors as being wrong, but the Golden Rule itself is "An it harm none, do what ye will." (He was quoted later by one in his own coven by yelling "A homosexual can never be a witch!")

An over simplification to say the least. Reducing the 161 Laws to one line is a little difficult to swallow in a proper discussion. Further- may I have a citation of him saying a homosexual can never be a witch? While I am aware of Alex Saunder's split due to Gardner's position as to the nature of the Fertility Cult, I don't recall him addressing the use of the word Witch in such a way.

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As well as condemning things, he also attempted to establish a set of rules or a holy book for that was required for a "real" witch to follow.

Wiccans- not the whole of witchdom.

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Wicca is supposed to be about finding your own truth and your own path, practicing how you please and doing whatever you feel brings you closer to the God(s) and Goddess(es), provided it isn't harming anyone.

Is it?

For one, I don't recall any prohibitions against harming anyone.
Second, why would you be under the impression that Wicca is about finding your path, and not the Lord and Lady's path?

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All of us do have Gardner to thank, however, for the revival of Paganism, and more specifically Witchcraft,

I'd disagree with this as well. As soon as the last laws against Witchcraft were repealed in what? 1949? ('48?) there was a flood of books on the market.

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Most of us would have never even heard of Wicca if it weren't for Gardner's work, even though I don't agree with him on many levels.

Agreed. Because without Gardner- there would be no Wicca.

Edit: Witches? Witchcults? Of course! But no Wicca.  

[Will-Nacht]

True, thanks for clearing this up for me. From what I had previously gathered of Gardner, he seemed kind of.... scary. All the same, I still don't find myself a big fan of his personal work, aside from the basic idea of his help with the revival. Instead of editing my post I'll just leave it there for further debate, although I hope people look to this post to know that I've been corrected.  

[TeaDidikai]

Will-Nacht

True, thanks for clearing this up for me. From what I had previously gathered of Gardner, he seemed kind of.... scary.

You're more generous than I. I think he was a right misogynistic b*****d.

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All the same, I still don't find myself a big fan of his personal work,

I find the mythos he presented as interesting. But not interesting enough to warrent conversion.

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aside from the basic idea of his help with the revival.

I wouldn't call it a revival really. But that's me.

So- basically, as long as you don't confuse Wicca with Witchcraft and don't try to claim Wicca when you aren't an initiated member of the Wiccan Lord and Lady's fertility cult- with the name of the same, you shouldn't have any problems.  

[Will-Nacht]

TeaDidikai

So- basically, as long as you don't confuse Wicca with Witchcraft and don't try to claim Wicca when you aren't an initiated member of the Wiccan Lord and Lady's fertility cult- with the name of the same, you shouldn't have any problems.

Thanks. I know he was somewhat demeaning to women, not to mention homophobic, I could not find the proper citation to him saying that, so I decided not to bring it up again to the previous reply.

All I consider myself is a studier/practitioner of the Craft, and that's enough for me.  

[godhi]

TeaDidikai

I'd disagree with this as well. As soon as the last laws against Witchcraft were repealed in what? 1949? ('48?) there was a flood of books on the market.

For the sake of accuracy, the Witchcraft Act in Britain was repealed in 1951.  

[TeaDidikai]

godhi

TeaDidikai

I'd disagree with this as well. As soon as the last laws against Witchcraft were repealed in what? 1949? ('48?) there was a flood of books on the market.

For the sake of accuracy, the Witchcraft Act in Britain was repealed in 1951.

That's right.
Thanks Godhi.

He claimed to be initiated in '49 and went public in '51.  

[Darin Rosewood]

Just for the sake of thread-usurping, I agree that the Rede doesn't directly prohibit "harm." But I read it as saying "You can't be punished for doing anything that doesn't cause harm. But if you do... you're on your own, kid." Is that anywhere close to correct? And if it is, could it not be seen being intended to discourage (not quite the word I'm going for, my thesaurus-head is going bonkers today) harm?  

[TeaDidikai]

Darin Rosewood

Just for the sake of thread-usurping, I agree that the Rede doesn't directly prohibit "harm." But I read it as saying "You can't be punished for doing anything that doesn't cause harm. But if you do... you're on your own, kid." Is that anywhere close to correct? And if it is, could it not be seen being intended to discourage (not quite the word I'm going for, my thesaurus-head is going bonkers today) harm?

Again, I think the first mistake is to reduce the body of how a Wiccan is suggested to act to one line removed from context.

However, if we are to look at this one line, the line itself makes no mention of "being on your own", or anything of the like.

It doesn't mention a course of action for those that do cause harm. Only that anything that does not harm is permissiable.

And then you have to get into the nature of "Harm".

Which I think is best left for another thread.  

[godhi]

Gerald Gardner: The man who took flagrant nudity, genital kissing, flagellation, bondage, and sexual promiscuity and put it in the Church...
where it belongs. mrgreen  

[jaden kendam]

godhi

Gerald Gardner: The man who took flagrant nudity, genital kissing, flagellation, bondage, and sexual promiscuity and put it in the Church...
where it belongs. mrgreen

If flagellation where the God whipped the Goddess?  

[TeaDidikai]

godhi

Gerald Gardner: The man who took flagrant nudity, genital kissing, flagellation, bondage, and sexual promiscuity and put it in the Church...
where it belongs. mrgreen

Pish. The Catholics beat him to it.

jaden kendam

If flagellation where the God whipped the Goddess?

Yes. And it is carried out in rites detailed in Gardner's books as well.  

[ShadowSharrow]

The Meaning of Witchcraft
Gerald B. Gardner
P.265

Appendix I
THE MAGICAL LEGEND OF THE WITCHES.

This became known as the decent of the Godess.  

[TeaDidikai]

I do find it interesting that Gardner didn't see fit to edit the fact that two paragraphs before the Lady had never known love before she blames Death for taking that which she loves and takes delight in.