"Traditionalists & Traditional Witchcraft"

[jaden kendam]

Greeneyed_falcon

This pops up over and over again in this thread - what does BTW stand for?

When I use it, it stands for By the way.  

[Greeneyed_falcon]

ShadowSharrow

Many who practice traditional witchcraft be it lineaged or not, be it initatory or not see the majority of those who are Wiccan ever those who are strains or BTW to be diluted down and politcally correct versions of witch craft.

ShadowSharrow

I came ( was frickin driven demented ) to Wicca (BTW) over the last 4 years by my patron diety and only recently gave in when I finally found a Hps as stuborn as I am.

Even here and here?  

[ShadowSharrow]

http://www.wargoddess.net/essay/btw.php

http://www.wicca.cc/page5.htm

British Traditional Wicca/Witchcraft.

Yes Greeneyed-falcon there are those who are well the equvialnt of Irish family trads that have no time for what is seen as british wishywashycraft
and irish pagans who will decry anyone who has anything to do with Wicca as
preforming cultural and actual rape of the Gods of this land. I mean really rolleyes

As for me being both, well if your partron Diety is a War Goddess and she tells you that you are to be fostered to recieve training in mysteries and to forge links you eventually take your marching orders as a warrior and priestess should.

I have personally a lot more time for those who I have meet who practice Traditional Witchcraft in their cultural context then the vast majority of wiccawannabes as they seek the truth in the dark.  

[scorplett]

Different people have different ideas of what denotes craft. I
n my experiance many will count that as being folk wisdom. Very few fam trads are what some of the fluffy books make them out to be. SO what denotes fam trad in the sense of folk wisdom etc? Well;
Some are families of seer's
Some are families of healers
Some are keepers of lore
Some are makers of philters
Some are weavers at the loom
Some are followers of tradition
Some are watchers of death
Some are bringers of birth
Some are herder's of cattle
Some are turners of the wheel
Some are turners of the sod
Some are collecters of silver
Some are finders of blue glass

None that I have ever come across are more than three or four of the things I listed above. And none that I have ever come across are anything close to what would be called Wicca, either in the context of BTW or of more modern ecclectic.
Many people in Ireland are from families who are, or once were, one of the above, directley or inderectly. Question is when in any given family such traditions were phased out and to what extent.
Similar could be said in certain other parts of Europe. For example, while travelling in genovese provence, I was walking through a tiny village, the church bells rang, from doorways along the street women came and gathered under a tree on the path that leads to the woods. There they brought their cook books and discussed what they would cook for dinner for their families, what ingredients they had and which they needed. Sharing recipies and ingredients for the individual family and wider village benifit. The oldest of the women advised on 'additions' for each household.
This to me is living family tradition.
To my mind, unless they happen to have studies Wicca along the way (such as the Sybil Leek) they do not cast circles and call upon the guardians and elements and Goddess and God.
New family traditions are being created all the time as 1st and 2nd generation pagans and witches are raising their children within their world view and passing on knowledge and lore of things that aren't taught in schools.  

[Greeneyed_falcon]

ShadowSorrow: BTW stands for British Traditional Wicca/Witchcraft?? Generally speaking they aren't interchangable terms.. so can BTW be used for both or which...?

I think seeing it as cultural rape of the traditional Gods of our land is going a bit far... and I'm coming from a family that could be classed as Traditionalists! Though we don't always class ourselves as such, just healers
Personally Wicca isn't my thing, but its just an opinion.
Also Wicca seems to be an unfortunate fluffy magnet, which isn't doing teh actual religion any favors in terms of people taking them seriously (not that I don't ! Just as a general comment... some people seem to be very quick to dismiss because they associate it with teenage wannabes)
Thanks for the links!

 

[ShadowSharrow]

Actual Wicca isn't a fluffy magnet what is portayed as is.
It is a very hard spiritual path and one I would not wish upon anyone.

As for what eactly BTW stand for and if Witchcraft and Wicca is inter changible
there are Witches who are Traditionalists who are British and so things can get confusing. There are also Wiccan traditions in the usa that have hived off so
British Traditional Wicca is a prefered label.

As for people taking it seriously well they have to meet witches how are seriousl about thier craft and go from there.

If I keep meeting 14 year old budhist who don't have a clue well I but that down to thier issues and not budhism.

Maybe they are ment to dismiss it , maybe it is not ment for them.

May I ask if your family has the tradition of the blue bottle ?
I certainly understand if you decline to answer.  

[Kalyani Srijoi]

Nuri

ShadowSharrow

.
The only bit I would quibble with is the inclusion of Robin Artisson.

As would I. I am fast approaching the conclusion that the man is insane, a con, or both. Actually, I think I am just confused as to which he is, but I am sure he is one of them.

I'm not even sure who the hell that is. neutral

Edit: Oof. Found him.

What a douchebag.  

[ShadowSharrow]

Kalyani Srijoi

Nuri

ShadowSharrow

.
The only bit I would quibble with is the inclusion of Robin Artisson.

As would I. I am fast approaching the conclusion that the man is insane, a con, or both. Actually, I think I am just confused as to which he is, but I am sure he is one of them.

I'm not even sure who the hell that is. neutral

Edit: Oof. Found him.

What a douchebag.

Now now a douchebag has a purpose and can be useful.  

[Kalyani Srijoi]

ShadowSharrow

Kalyani Srijoi

Nuri

ShadowSharrow

.
The only bit I would quibble with is the inclusion of Robin Artisson.

As would I. I am fast approaching the conclusion that the man is insane, a con, or both. Actually, I think I am just confused as to which he is, but I am sure he is one of them.

I'm not even sure who the hell that is. neutral

Edit: Oof. Found him.

What a douchebag.

Now now a douchebag has a purpose and can be useful.

Good point.

I would never let him anywhere near my v****a.

I really like how he's all, "I don't hate Christians, but..." Yeah, when you make a list of seven things Christians aren't likely to do, and then put 'admit they were wrong' at the top of the list. Very nice.  

[godhi]

ShadowSharrow

Kalyani Srijoi

Nuri

ShadowSharrow

.
The only bit I would quibble with is the inclusion of Robin Artisson.

As would I. I am fast approaching the conclusion that the man is insane, a con, or both. Actually, I think I am just confused as to which he is, but I am sure he is one of them.

I'm not even sure who the hell that is. neutral

Edit: Oof. Found him.

What a douchebag.

Now now a douchebag has a purpose and can be useful.

I don't know about that. Penn and Teller referred to John Edwards as the "Biggest Douchebag in the Universe" and that's pretty much my opinion of him--and I can't possibly think of anyone else who is more worthless than John Edwards.  

[maenad nuri]

ShadowSharrow

Nuri

Mr Wade posted in exactly one topic on Gaia, before I made him cry and go away. It was lovely.

Any chance to a link on that ?

It was a couple of years ago, back when I was the mean one. My sig line was "Just because I'm pagan, doesn't mean I'm nice"  

[ShadowSharrow]

Nice has soo many meanings.

Quote:

1. pleasing; agreeable; delightful: a nice visit.

2. amiably pleasant; kind: They are always nice to strangers.

3. characterized by, showing, or requiring great accuracy, precision, skill, tact, care, or delicacy: nice workmanship; a nice shot; a nice handling of a crisis.

4. showing or indicating very small differences; minutely accurate, as instruments: a job that requires nice measurements.

5. minute, fine, or subtle: a nice distinction.

6. having or showing delicate, accurate perception: a nice sense of color.

7. refined in manners, language, etc.: Nice people wouldn't do such things.

8. virtuous; respectable; decorous: a nice girl.

9. suitable or proper: That was not a nice remark.

10. carefully neat in dress, habits, etc.

11. (esp. of food) dainty or delicate.

12. having fastidious, finicky, or fussy tastes: They're much too nice in their dining habits to enjoy an outdoor barbecue.

13. Obsolete. coy, shy, or reluctant.
14. Obsolete. unimportant; trivial.
15. Obsolete. wanton.

I really dislike that words are losing their myraid of means it vertainly makes it harder to get away with as many in ur endos as they become dumbed down.  

[Greeneyed_falcon]

ShadowSharrow

May I ask if your family has the tradition of the blue bottle ?
I certainly understand if you decline to answer.

We're not, I'm afraid. Or at least, if we were.... no one bothered tell me. Which would be odd  

[Miss Lune Soleil]

Ok, reading the replies here, mainly regarding Artisson... what is it that people are finding that makes him seem "insane"?

Just in case anyone here doesn't know, there is a bit of background to Artisson's presence on the net. A man (whom I think was studying under Artisson, I forget his name) began to turn on him and not only take over Artisson's website to make it a forum for hate mongering, but spread a lot of vicious and unfounded rumours about him on forums and websites, including claims of plagarism, adultary and criminal activity (none of which have ever been varified). There's even an Encyclopedia Dramatica page about Artisson spouting all sorts of rubbish as a result.

It's all a bunch of personal issues between Artisson and the other man, and I don't see why that should tarnish the great work he's done on Witchcraft. Neither should any of the personal opinions he holds.
After all, Gardner has often been labeled a sex-crazed nudist, but that doesn't make his work any less reputable on the subject of Wicca.

I have read Artisson's main work on Trad Craft, as well as being a member of his mail group (speaking to him personally a few times myself), and despite what a lot of people say, the man has very coherant, and deep concepts... not to mention workable. Where are people in this thread drawing their opinions? Unless there's something I'm not yet aware of, in which case I'd like to see what it is.

~~~~

Re: Deo on Fate/Wyrd

Forgive the misunderstanding, I wrote that part when I was still partly unfamiliar with the concepts, and it was only a brief mention made in passing, without further explaination or attention. I'll edit it asap. I know the two are not interchangable, and I didn't mean to write it that way, so I'll word it differently when I re-write it. ^^;  

[Deoridhe]

Phoenixfire Lune Soleil

Re: Deo on Fate/Wyrd

Forgive the misunderstanding, I wrote that part when I was still partly unfamiliar with the concepts, and it was only a brief mention made in passing, without further explaination or attention. I'll edit it asap. I know the two are not interchangable, and I didn't mean to write it that way, so I'll word it differently when I re-write it. ^^;

No worries. heart