D: Omg...help, please.

[SonarP]

I'm a new member (duh! x3), so I might as well answer some questions.

Why are you here?

If you haven't heard already, I'm training to become a shaman. I never exactly did feel comfortable worshipping Christianity. Not trying to bash, but it never fit my glove. I kept mentioning this to a friend of mine for some time; my ideals never fit in with their crowd. So my friend did something really cool. I'd find that he'd walk into my dreams, even meet me in astral. I didn't know I could travel astral, or even have someone walk into my dreams. He would even protect me when I got into astral trouble. After hearing my laments/complaints/etc., and some of the plans that I had for the future (I mentioned to him that I was making plans to study botany, psychology, and massage therapy in college and later years since I was one of those kids that took "the evil skittles on steroids" like Seroquel and Cymbalta), he suggested that I follow a shamanic path. I thought about it, and it's definetly something I want to do. It's no easy tread. It will require a lot of sacrifice and perserverance. It's not a fad, it's a lifestyle.
I'm looking down into my roots (I'm an American..x_x ^^; ), which would cover Native American, African, French, English, and German lines. I did find an autobiography on James Hall from the Africas, and I have a copy of "Ash, Oak, and Thorn".
I live in Florida, and in a "strong" Christian community. If they find out you're anything but straight or Christian, then you're not...really...tolerated. I'd love to find a moot or a coven! But I'm not sure that a coven would welcome shaman. X_X I can always be wrong.

What can we do for you?
As much as possible. XD

Anything else you wanna add?

Not right now at the moment...^_^; D: Sorry.  

[Pelta]

SonarP

I never exactly did feel comfortable worshipping Christianity.

First of all, one does not worship a religion. It's a small point, but as you'll soon probably notice I'm a stickler for accuracy.

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I mentioned to him that I was making plans to study botany, psychology, and massage therapy in college and later years since I was one of those kids that took "the evil skittles on steroids" like Seroquel and Cymbalta

Each of these things on their own are not a prerequisite, or even important to the shamanic practise. In fact, I'm not entirely sure you understand what such a path entails.

Shamanism is something specifically from the Siberian peninsula. That's where the word comes from. Such people were the spiritual mediators of their tribes. They had a position and duty to fill. Some often travelled between worlds in their workings, although different tribes had many different approaches to practise. There are well-documented anthropological studies of their practises, some of which were similar to ones used in certain Inuit and Canadian tribes. But do not fall into the trap of thinking that similar=same. They are not Shamans. Native American Medicine Men (or whatever their more tribal variant of that would be) are not shamans. Shaman is a word specific to the Siberian Peninsula. Period.

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I thought about it, and it's definetly something I want to do. It's no easy tread. It will require a lot of sacrifice and perserverance. It's not a fad, it's a lifestyle.

Do you have any idea what such a lifestyle entails? But forgive me. I'm not actually trying to be insulting. I just don't think you really understand what you've stated. And you said you wanted to learn...

For one, did you know that the traditional initiation process in many Siberian tribes for shamans was to be ripped apart by spirits, the entire body consumed to the bone and be recreated by raw spirit matter?

Not to mention the responsibility. Responsibility is one of the most important elements of Shamanic practise. Shaman is not a religion. It is a position. The Shaman holds a post in the community just like priests, lawyers and teachers do... They are there to serve. The role of Shaman cannot exist without the community it provides services to. The Shaman is created by the peoples' need for one, not by the whims of the apprentice.

Not to mention that traditionally one also has to be initiated by a Shaman to become one. This usually involves several years of apprenticeship, children often being chosen from the tribe at an early age to develop their skills. There is no legitimate shaman without a community, and there is no legitimate shaman without initiation. This is no laughing matter. The shaman holds an incredibly powerful and responsible position in the community. You cannot have people who are unqualified for the job ******** things up.

That said, I'm actually not trying to be insulting or condescending. I'm just exposing the reality of what you have said you want to do.

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I'm looking down into my roots (I'm an American..x_x ^^; ), which would cover Native American, African, French, English, and German lines.

All of which are not Siberian. But I'm not sure how important ancestry is. I think what matters most is the sense of belonging to a tribe or community.

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I did find an autobiography on James Hall from the Africas, and I have a copy of "Ash, Oak, and Thorn".

Throw it away. I don't know anything about James Hall, but Ash, Oak and Thorn is one of the biggest loads of self-perpetuating tripe on the magical scene. Firstly because CELTIC SHAMANISM DOESN'T EXIST. But I'll spare you that rant and move on. I'll put up a post in your other thread of reccomended reading. Pretty much everything in the pop-pagan scene is going to be iffy when it comes to shamanism. What you want is solid anthropological research.

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What can we do for you?
As much as possible. XD

And how much are you willing to lose? How much are you willing to sacrifice?

I apologise if I have been a bit harsh, but sometimes people really need to be hit over the head with a clue-by-four. You did say you wanted to learn, and if you're serious, you'll look look back over this post and look at the points I've made without vilifying them because you feel I've been unfair or insulting. That's how you learn.  

[SonarP]

No, no, I'm not insulted at all. I'm still a "newborn", so it's somewhat important I do I do a question, though. What would the combination for a "witch", "medicine man/woman", and/or a "doctor", someone who travels in between worlds and helps/heals anyone willing to seek them out, or does that vary between world regions?
As for ancestry..it's just a guess, but I think that the closest or matching ancestry to culture might be an easier path. But I don't know much, so I'll leave that up in the air for debate.
I do recall reading that one going through training of the sort faced a "crisis" or "sickness" at initiation, but neither of those equals the body being ripped apart and then consumed to create new bodily matter.
I am serious about it. I don't have the tools to get where I want just yet, but I'm willing to go and get them by learning from others, and from myself.  

[Pelta]

SonarP

No, no, I'm not insulted at all.

Wow. I'm impressed. Someone who actually wants to learn! Yay! mrgreen

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I'm still a "newborn", so it's somewhat important I do I do a question, though. What would the combination for a "witch", "medicine man/woman", and/or a "doctor", someone who travels in between worlds and helps/heals anyone willing to seek them out, or does that vary between world regions?

Many different tribes and religions have their own specific names. The indigenous languages of many Native American tribes have different names for people of a similar function for many different tribes. Each are different and have discrete positions and names. It is important to know that even though there may be some similarities, they are not the same thing in every culture.

Here's where I point out the very important different in nomenclature. It is impossible to be a Shaman without being Siberian. However, it is possible to have a shamanic practise...

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As for ancestry..it's just a guess, but I think that the closest or matching ancestry to culture might be an easier path. But I don't know much, so I'll leave that up in the air for debate.

That's often a rather tricky question and opens up a whole new can of worms, especially when it comes to people of mixed race and culture.

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I do recall reading that one going through training of the sort faced a "crisis" or "sickness" at initiation, but neither of those equals the body being ripped apart and then consumed to create new bodily matter.

Try reading through some of the literature I mentioned in your other thread. It's fascinating from an intellectual point of view.

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I am serious about it. I don't have the tools to get where I want just yet, but I'm willing to go and get them by learning from others, and from myself.

It's always nice to see someone who is actually serious about learning. So many people never make it beyond the first step of admitting they don't actually know anything.

If you like, take a look through my Pathways thread. It may be somewhat similar to what you're interested in.  

[ILuvEire]

Bonjor!
I just wanted to comment on the Ancestry, I am not exactly sure how Native American ancestry would help you be a shaman (whatever the Native American term is) unless you had a great grandmother or something that was a shaman (whatever the Native American term is).

Something else to consider, I was listening to the Hoodoo and Rootwork Hour, and they were talking about, within the Cherokee shamanism (whatever the Native American term is), if you were a boy, the current shaman (whatever the Native American term is) would pick you out and start teaching you when you were a child, then you would take over for him when he died. However if you were a woman, you had to wait until you went through Menopause, to be trained. I don't know about other traditions...
Then again this might not apply to you at all, because when women went through thier menstral cycle the did some sort of ritual.

-ILuvEire-

P.S. If you have iTunes, search Luckymojo, and it is Called the Lucky Mojo Hoodoo and Rootwork hour, its the Native American Contributions to Hoodoo, nuber 14, or 15 I believe. I don't know if it is on any other podcathchers.  

[SonarP]

:^ Hmm..interesting..
I wonder, though...is it something you can take an eclectic approach to?  

[godhi]

ILuvEire

Bonjour!
I just wanted to comment on the Ancestry, I am not exactly sure how Native American ancestry would help you be a shaman (whatever the Native American term is) unless you had a great grandmother or something that was a shaman (whatever the Native American term is).

The term 'shaman' is actually of Siberian origin, and shamanic practices are not just confined to the native tribes of North America; in fact, at one time shamanism was practiced in Great Britain, Europe, Asia, and Australia, and in addition to North America is still practiced in parts of the Carribean, Africa, South America, and Polynesia.
Although so-called 'civilized cultures' consider shamanism to be a primitive religion, it is actually a complex tradition dating back many thousands of years and in addition to summoning and communicating with spirits deals with herbalism, natural medicine, and spiritual healing as well as the magical principles of sympathy and contagion. In fact, many techniques used in traditional witchcraft are based on ancient practices from European shamanism.
Although written from a New Age perspective, a good book on shamanism is The Way of the Shaman by Michael Harner, which examines the shamanic experience as viewed by different cultures. You also might want to search for books on the subject of European and Siberian shamanism.
As a final note, as a practitioner of Norse seidhr magic I am a student of Northern European shamanism, and am studying the ancient roots of my tradition. I've had some interesting conversations with fellow students of the shamanic path, and sometime in the future we could create another thread or two on the subject.  

[Deoridhe]

ILuvEire

I am not exactly sure how Native American ancestry would help you be a shaman (whatever the Native American term is) unless you had a great grandmother or something that was a shaman (whatever the Native American term is).

FYI, there isn't one "Native American" term because "Native American" means very little outside of "was here when the Europeans showed up". The Huichol, with whom I'm most familiar, call that role "mara'kami". I don't remember the Lakota term; I'm not sure either Black Elk or Lame Deer used it.  

[Kalyani Srijoi]

There's a difference between following a shamanistic path and being a shaman. 'Shamanistic' is a fairly common anthropological term for paths that involve communication with and channeling of spirits, especially animistic paths - though in truth, the term is usually more specific and seperate from mediumship or whatnot.

'Shamans' follow a path native to Siberia, but there are similar practices that have been called 'shamanistic,' though it's technically false to call such people 'shamans.'

Complicated, I know. sweatdrop  

[ShadowSharrow]

Put there are ceretain pracices such as soul splinter retreval or creation and certain jouneys which are called shamanistic and there are ways in which a person who is a magical practioner may work which is refered to as shamanic.  

[Pelta]

Kalyani Srijoi

There's a difference between following a shamanistic path and being a shaman. 'Shamanistic' is a fairly common anthropological term for paths that involve communication with and channeling of spirits, especially animistic paths - though in truth, the term is usually more specific and seperate from mediumship or whatnot.

'Shamans' follow a path native to Siberia, but there are similar practices that have been called 'shamanistic,' though it's technically false to call such people 'shamans.'

Complicated, I know. sweatdrop

Yeah the nomenclature gets a bit confusing. However, the fact remains that nobody can call themselves a shaman without the whole Siberian tradition.

I thought "shamanic" was the proper adjective, not "shamanistic." I dunno. It doesn't make too much sense to argue over nomenclature.

I think one of the largest differences between mediumship and animism is that mediumship (as far as I know) only deals with the spirits of departed humans. Animism implies a relationship with a wider variety of etherial beings.

ShadowSharrow

Put there are ceretain pracices such as soul splinter retreval or creation and certain jouneys which are called shamanistic and there are ways in which a person who is a magical practioner may work which is refered to as shamanic.

Indeed. There are styles of working which descend from the Shaman's practise. But doing so doesn't qualify anyone to call themselves a Shaman. That's a specific term. However, it does get confusing when there's all this talk of shamanic practises without having a legitimate noun to attach it to.  

[Deoridhe]

Pelta

Yeah the nomenclature gets a bit confusing. However, the fact remains that nobody can call themselves a shaman without the whole Siberian tradition.

I have run into a few cases where people from traditions with more difficult to pronounce names for their Priest/Healer/Guide/Mage role(s) use Shaman, but it's always prefaced by the culture. For instance, I'm on rather good terms with an Incan Shaman and have learned a lot of Inca practices as a result despite not being shamanic or Incan myself. Some people have argued (sucessfully, I think) that spaecrafters/Seidhr practicioners are the "shamans" of the Norse, as well, though the role of us Rune Mages is frequently left out of anthropological literature because it's an unusual distinction. wink  

[SonarP]

X_X Wait...I'm getting really confused...is there even a straight answer? question sweatdrop  

[Pelta]

SonarP

X_X Wait...I'm getting really confused...is there even a straight answer? question sweatdrop

No. Is there ever a straight answer?

Basically it's a label. People who are qualified can adhere to said label. Others can identify with it, but distinctions have to be made.  

[Deoridhe]

SonarP

X_X Wait...I'm getting really confused...is there even a straight answer? question sweatdrop

Nope, but there are several bent ones. 3nodding

I actually mean that literally, too, which is ironic. "shaman" means three things which aren't quite mutually exclusive. One of them is in the context of its origin, with the Tuvan tribes of Siberia. The second is in the context of its redefinition, with anthropologists. The third is in the context of its re-redefenition, with New Age and Pagan groups. Within the third context, there are two ways the word is used; one is with full knowledge of it's history and in terms of the anthropologists - those tend to be people who refer to themselves as a [Culture] Shaman - meaning that using the anthropological definition of shaman, they fit that role within [Culture]. The other is as an ego boost, i.e. "I am the Grate and Powerfuller Shaman!!!"

This gets into the difference between descriptive and proscriptive language; that is, language used to describe something and language used to cut something off as different from other things. Anthropologists are descriptive. NewAgers and Pagans tend to be proscriptive. Words get confused when they move between contexts like that.