Honour systems and "normal" interpersonal interactions.

[TeaDidikai]

Kuroiban

It's the nature of all ethics systems to have people that flaunt keystone virtues that they honestly don't have.

Kind of sad really.

Bullshit.

Counter example: Mine.  

[Starlock]

TeaDidikai

Kuroiban

It's the nature of all ethics systems to have people that flaunt keystone virtues that they honestly don't have.

Kind of sad really.

Bullshit.

Counter example: Mine.

(raises eyebrow) Well, can't verify your example, but that set aside, he has a point. Often there is some degree of hypocrisy or another whenever someone follows any kind of ethics/honor system. It isn't sad, it's just the way things are.  

[Kuroiban]

TeaDidikai

Kuroiban

It's the nature of all ethics systems to have people that flaunt keystone virtues that they honestly don't have.

Kind of sad really.

Bullshit.

Counter example: Mine.

Allow me to clarify.

It's the nature of all ethics systems to have some people that flaunt keystone virtues that they don't have. These people also tend to be the absolute nosiest about said faked virtues. Is that better?  

[CuAnnan]

Kuroiban

Allow me to clarify.

It's the nature of all ethics systems to have some people that flaunt keystone virtues that they don't have. These people also tend to be the absolute nosiest about said faked virtues. Is that better?

Not really, it's a blanket statement with nothing more than anecdotal evidence.

It's not the nature of ethics systems to have some people that do anything.

What you're talking about is the nature of people, not the nature of ethics systems.  

[Kuroiban]

reagun ban

Kuroiban

Allow me to clarify.

It's the nature of all ethics systems to have some people that flaunt keystone virtues that they don't have. These people also tend to be the absolute nosiest about said faked virtues. Is that better?

Not really, it's a blanket statement with nothing more than anecdotal evidence.

It's not the nature of ethics systems to have some people that do anything.

What you're talking about is the nature of people, not the nature of ethics systems.

Point made. THat WAS what I was trying to say; it just didn't come out right.  

[CuAnnan]

Kuroiban

Point made. THat WAS what I was trying to say; it just didn't come out right.

I thought as much.
You need to be a little pickier about your words.
Words are powerful things, the wrong word can make you look like a God, while the right word can make you look like a ********?  

[Kuroiban]

reagun ban

Kuroiban

Point made. THat WAS what I was trying to say; it just didn't come out right.

I thought as much.
You need to be a little pickier about your words.
Words are powerful things, the wrong word can make you look like a God, while the right word can make you look like a ******** class="clear">

[quantum_leaper]

There is very little you can do that will anger me.

There is a lot you can do to irrate me,annoy me etc... but anger is something else.

The problem is that when im anger self control becomes a serious issue.

It took me 4 years to get rid of a friend because i didn't want to see the obvious truth that she was evil b***h from hell. I would always want to talk and give way etc..

I wouldnt have what i call an honour system because i don't like rules, i dont like having set rules. If person does x , i'll do y.

However there is one thing which i recently found out that bypasses all my normal diplomatic self and brought out an anger which i have never felt before and hopefully never will again.

It took reagun_ban like 2-3 hours to bring me back down.(thanks for that). I was ready to kill the person in question, i removed them from my house without spilling blood which took enourmous self control.

So i have a very limited code because i dont like hard and fast rules and i dont get rid of friends easy...,
But break it and good luck because you will need it.  

[Deoridhe]

[ Message temporarily off-line ]  

[TionneDawnstar]

Wow, I am really regretting reading this thread. I have a head ache now. Ouch. I am the type of person that I guess people could say has weak morals. I don't see it as such, because I value different things then alot of people. I'm quite tolerant of people and have very rarely terminated a relationship because it broke my moral code. If you want to drink, drink. If you want to smoke, who am I to tell you what to do with your body. The only thing I ask is not to harm another person. If it doesn't harm someone other then yourself, then I have no problem with it. There are things I like and don't like about alot of my friends, but I'm not going to kick them to the curb because of it. I've done drugs, and drank alcohol, and have sex when I'm not married, who am I to force my beliefs on anyone else?  

[StrawberryGumiho]

My moral/ethic system is pretty simplistic... And for the most part they apply solely to me... Though there are a few little by-laws meant for those that interact with me... That they shouldnt need to be aware of as it would be common sense. I have a long, elaborated guideline list type thing from back when I sat down to really contemplate my morals and ethics... But I'm going to give the shoddy version that it all boils down to:

1. Take responsibility for all actions and words.
2. Be courtious (hold doors, offer your place in line every now and then, help people with something when they need it.)
3. Respect your elders, unless they prove they dont deserve that respect. Give respect where it is due.
4. Be forward and honest in all dealings (dont shortchange or rip people off.)
5. Be loyal to friends and family... (But if their in the wrong, put their a** in line. They are responsible for their actions just like everyone else.)
6. Be good to kids. Their safety and well-being comes before everything else. (Despite kids being my #1 fear, I love 'em to death. They just freak me out.)

What I hold others too:
Take responsibility for actions and words.
At least try to be respectful.
Be forward and honest in all dealings (shortchange me and your screwed. Try to con or pass yourself off fraudulently to or around me and I catch it, end of the game.)

And regarding specific interactions:
Act up shamelessly in poor character (harass or pick on someone without provocation) I'm gonna smack you and tell you off.

If they strike me in any manner, They've just given me permission to mop the floor with their a**.

If I strike someone else first in any manner, I'd damn well better be ready to accept all possible consequences.

Seriously stab me in the back or betray my trust and they're gone and possibly in for it (friendship terminated.) Very seriously do so and they're definately in for it.

Seriously mess with people I respect or are my buds and they're in for it.
Seriously mess with my family or the friends I concider my family and they're just dead. End of story, they ******** up big time.  

[Aesi]

My basic rules for myself are this:

1. Love is the first virtue. Always search for something to love, even in the worst of man.
2. Take responsibility for every thought and deed.
3. Live for myself.
4. Be loyal and show respect for any person who has helped me.
5. Be honest whenever honesty will not result in danger to those I am loyal to.
6. So far as it does not conflict with the above rules, pursue my goals tirelessly.

The standards I hold others to depend on what you've done to the people I love. There is only one solid rule, no one who willfully endangers my closest family and friends will ever benefit by any action of mine.  

[Henry Dorsett Case]

Deoridhe

reagun ban

Bart thinks Harry Potter is literature with character development.

Harry Potter IS literature with character development. talk2hand

TeaDidikai

( Which reminds me, Deo, if they tie me to a rock and hang a snake above me, you get to rescue me, okay? )

Snakes and I are like THAT *crosses fingers* and I always kinda thought Loki got a bum rap.

TeaDidikai

Allow me to explain. Their concept of being honor and noble boils down to this bizarre sense of �I am a warrior and my justice is law�. The actual hypocrisy aside, I think the idolization of a dead culture and the historical revisionism needed to make the culture of �warriors� in question are pretty, sparkly and noble is asinine.

It goes across cultures too.
Vikings, Samurai, Arther and his groupies... minus the romantic revisions aren't so impressive, in deed or honor.

The time of most growth of honor for the Samurai was during the Tokugawa period, when there was almost no conflict. That being said, some Samurai made quite valuable additions to literature and philosophy, and a study of war and people at war can giv eyou valuable insights into people at their most pure and idealistic and at their most cruel and horrific. It's sort of a snapshot of the best and the worst all at once.


I personally view honor as acting in accordance with your most core values.

I got to meet Toshishiro Obata once when he came to my Shinkendo school (back when I attended). For those that don't know who O-Sensei Obata-san is, he's the founder of the American Shinken-do Federation and, oddly enough, Shredder's right-hand man in the first Turtles movie. One of the students asked him about living their lives according to Bushido.

His reponse?

"Why would you want to do that? Bushido is for samurai. There are no more samurai. Live with honor. Act with honor."

When asked what his definition of honor was: "That's up to you, not me. I just teach you how to fight to defend your honorable life."

And this may sound strange, but I kind of go with what "feels" honorable to decide whether or not something is honorable.  

[Kuroiban]

Henry Dorsett Case

I got to meet Toshishiro Obata once when he came to my Shinkendo school (back when I attended). For those that don't know who O-Sensei Obata-san is, he's the founder of the American Shinken-do Federation and, oddly enough, Shredder's right-hand man in the first Turtles movie. One of the students asked him about living their lives according to Bushido.

His reponse?

"Why would you want to do that? Bushido is for samurai. There are no more samurai. Live with honor. Act with honor."

When asked what his definition of honor was: "That's up to you, not me. I just teach you how to fight to defend your honorable life."

And this may sound strange, but I kind of go with what "feels" honorable to decide whether or not something is honorable.

Wait...wait...wait....you mean the "NINJA....VANISH!" guy!? eek

But apparently that was some majorly wasted talent...if the guy can speak so quickly and so elequently about the mater, he really should had some better lines then that.

Thanks for that little tid-bit!