A question about a Llewellyn book i have.....

[Elizabeth Tarion]

[Kudzu]

Bavi

So should one not even bother trying to find OC material and just go coven hunting?

Yes, one would certainly be no worse off if one chose to do that.

Also, I keep noticing that this invented phrase "Outer Court material" has taken on a life of its own. Gardner may have published no Outer Court material at all, because he may not have used any of those materials to teach his own Outer Courts! Each Outer Court is different. Some Outer Courts have no books required at all. Some require people to read history or philosophy textbooks, or fiction from the best sellers list. There is no standardized "Outer Court material" and no Outer Court teaches actual Wiccan practice or lore. It's just a getting-to-know-you time, and most groups treat it as such, with maybe a little book club thrown in to entice Seekers or to get a feel for what they're interested in and whether it clashes with the group's beliefs.

It seems that you're going to have to explain Outter Court to me then.
I was under the impression that it was Wicca material that was deemed safe/ok for outsiders to know about.  

[Doctrix]

Bavi

Kudzu

I keep noticing that this invented phrase "Outer Court material" has taken on a life of its own. Gardner may have published no Outer Court material at all, because he may not have used any of those materials to teach his own Outer Courts! Each Outer Court is different. Some Outer Courts have no books required at all. Some require people to read history or philosophy textbooks, or fiction from the best sellers list. There is no standardized "Outer Court material" and no Outer Court teaches actual Wiccan practice or lore. It's just a getting-to-know-you time, and most groups treat it as such, with maybe a little book club thrown in to entice Seekers or to get a feel for what they're interested in and whether it clashes with the group's beliefs.

It seems that you're going to have to explain Outter Court to me then.
I was under the impression that it was Wicca material that was deemed safe/ok for outsiders to know about.

It's just a simple mix-up that occurred when folks on Gaia have turned a noun into an adjective. Since I don't know how much you know, I'll start at the beginning, so I appologize if I am just repeating things that you already know.

All Wiccan lore, mysteries and practices are oathbound. Therefore, all the material you see published under the name of "Wiccan" is not really Wiccan material. When a Coven is training new members, they have two different groups. One is the Inner Court, consisting only of Initiated members. The second group is called the Outer Court. The Outer Court consists of people who want to become Initiated Wiccans, and also some Initiated members who are helping out or learning about the potential members.

A person traditionally spends about a year and a day in the Outer Court before becomming Initiated or being asked to leave. The time may be much shorter or much longer. Each Coven's Outer Court does different stuff, because it's really just a getting-to-know-you time to make sure that neither the Coven nor the newbies run screaming off into the night. It's a time to make sure that the newbies aren't into wacky stuff that would conflict with the Coven's values, and it's a good time to scope out the newbies and make sure they aren't just plain jerks.

Every Coven runs their Outer Court differently. Theoretically, an Outer Court could just be a monthly ice cream social. I have seen Outer Courts that do not have any books to read, and I have seen Outer Courts that do not have any rituals performed. Conversely, some Outer Courts are run just like a class, where each member is given non-Wiccan material to study. This is a way that the Wiccans can see whether the newbie is ready to put their mind to things and put forth the study work required after Initiation. The materials might be about philosophy or history or herbs or astrology, theoretically they could be about Latin! All non-Wiccan material is "safe/ok for outsiders to know about." No Wiccan Wiccan lore, mysteries and practices are taught before Initiation. No Wiccan lore, mysteries and practices are taught to any Outer Court.  

[maenad nuri]

I suppose my group was different, Kudzu. When I was in Outer Court, the materials I was given was described as "getting my feet wet" with a sort of generic Witchcraft, and some of the laying groundwork-never anything specific to Wicca.

As I left before initation, I can't confirm anything, nor do I know if I could if I had.

That's the context that I've been using Outer Court materials in. Slightly different experience I suppose.

Have I mentioned how much I adore you Kudzu?  

[Doctrix]

Nuri

I suppose my group was different, Kudzu. When I was in Outer Court, the materials I was given was described as "getting my feet wet" with a sort of generic Witchcraft, and some of the laying groundwork-never anything specific to Wicca.

As I left before initation, I can't confirm anything, nor do I know if I could if I had.

That's the context that I've been using Outer Court materials in. Slightly different experience I suppose.

Have I mentioned how much I adore you Kudzu?

And I adore you, too! Speaking of which, do you happen to know where I might find out what kind of incense Hecate likes?  

[maenad nuri]

[Kudzu]

Nuri

I suppose my group was different, Kudzu. When I was in Outer Court, the materials I was given was described as "getting my feet wet" with a sort of generic Witchcraft, and some of the laying groundwork-never anything specific to Wicca.

As I left before initation, I can't confirm anything, nor do I know if I could if I had.

That's the context that I've been using Outer Court materials in. Slightly different experience I suppose.

Have I mentioned how much I adore you Kudzu?

And I adore you, too! Speaking of which, do you happen to know where I might find out what kind of incense Hecate likes?

My best quick check resource Sannion's Sanctuary suggests as sacrifices:
yew, cypress, hazel, black poplar, willow, black dogs, black bulls, black lambs, myrrh, civet, camphor, aloe, menstrual blood, red mullet, bread, eggs, cheese, honey

Obviously, not all of these would be good for incense. smile I often use myrrh and alone

Theoi probably has some insights too.  

[Doctrix]

Nuri

Kudzu

Do you happen to know where I might find out what kind of incense Hecate likes?

My best quick check resource Sannion's Sanctuary suggests as sacrifices:
yew, cypress, hazel, black poplar, willow, black dogs, black bulls, black lambs, myrrh, civet, camphor, aloe, menstrual blood, red mullet, bread, eggs, cheese, honey

Obviously, not all of these would be good for incense. smile I often use myrrh and alone

Theoi probably has some insights too.

Thank you muchly! Hecate seems to have taken a liking to my house (I live on a three-way crossroads, imagine that), so I've been feeding her eggs and milk to keep her satisfied with appropriate edibles so that she doesn't "eat" people! biggrin I'm glad to have a list of other things to use. I've got some myrrh and camphor laying around!  

[TeaDidikai]

Nuri

[Kudzu]

Nuri

I suppose my group was different, Kudzu. When I was in Outer Court, the materials I was given was described as "getting my feet wet" with a sort of generic Witchcraft, and some of the laying groundwork-never anything specific to Wicca.

As I left before initation, I can't confirm anything, nor do I know if I could if I had.

That's the context that I've been using Outer Court materials in. Slightly different experience I suppose.

Have I mentioned how much I adore you Kudzu?

And I adore you, too! Speaking of which, do you happen to know where I might find out what kind of incense Hecate likes?

My best quick check resource Sannion's Sanctuary suggests as sacrifices:
yew, cypress, hazel, black poplar, willow, black dogs, black bulls, black lambs, myrrh, civet, camphor, aloe, menstrual blood, red mullet, bread, eggs, cheese, honey

Obviously, not all of these would be good for incense. smile I often use myrrh and alone

Theoi probably has some insights too.

I'd heard of cypress and myrrh before. Made a lovely Myrrh necklace for a HPS in a public ritual years ago.  

[AingealOreiad]

[Kudzu]

Thank you muchly! Hecate seems to have taken a liking to my house (I live on a three-way crossroads, imagine that), so I've been feeding her eggs and milk to keep her satisfied with appropriate edibles so that she doesn't "eat" people! biggrin I'm glad to have a list of other things to use. I've got some myrrh and camphor laying around!

Also, it's usually pretty safe to offer frankinsence to any of the Theoi. And remember, Hekate is Cthonic, so any liquid offerings shold be poured directly on the ground, preferable as a choe (virtually a "dumping" of the liquid). But this is all dependant upon how recon you want to get biggrin heart  

[Doctrix]

TeaDidikai

I'd heard of cypress and myrrh before.

Mmm... Sounds delightful!

AingealOreiad

Also, it's usually pretty safe to offer frankinsence to any of the Theoi. And remember, Hekate is Cthonic, so any liquid offerings shold be poured directly on the ground, preferable as a choe (virtually a "dumping" of the liquid). But this is all dependant upon how recon you want to get

Thanks for the tip!  

[TeaDidikai]

[Kudzu]

TeaDidikai

I'd heard of cypress and myrrh before.

Mmm... Sounds delightful!

Candle, myrrh drops, needle and thread. Heat the tip of the needle then push it through the myrrh. Better quality stuff is easier to strink. The resin will melt and there you have it.

It's even easier with Frankinsense  

[Elizabeth Tarion]

[Kudzu]

It's just a simple mix-up that occurred when folks on Gaia have turned a noun into an adjective. Since I don't know how much you know, I'll start at the beginning, so I appologize if I am just repeating things that you already know.

All Wiccan lore, mysteries and practices are oathbound. Therefore, all the material you see published under the name of "Wiccan" is not really Wiccan material. When a Coven is training new members, they have two different groups. One is the Inner Court, consisting only of Initiated members. The second group is called the Outer Court. The Outer Court consists of people who want to become Initiated Wiccans, and also some Initiated members who are helping out or learning about the potential members.

A person traditionally spends about a year and a day in the Outer Court before becomming Initiated or being asked to leave. The time may be much shorter or much longer. Each Coven's Outer Court does different stuff, because it's really just a getting-to-know-you time to make sure that neither the Coven nor the newbies run screaming off into the night. It's a time to make sure that the newbies aren't into wacky stuff that would conflict with the Coven's values, and it's a good time to scope out the newbies and make sure they aren't just plain jerks.

Every Coven runs their Outer Court differently. Theoretically, an Outer Court could just be a monthly ice cream social. I have seen Outer Courts that do not have any books to read, and I have seen Outer Courts that do not have any rituals performed. Conversely, some Outer Courts are run just like a class, where each member is given non-Wiccan material to study. This is a way that the Wiccans can see whether the newbie is ready to put their mind to things and put forth the study work required after Initiation. The materials might be about philosophy or history or herbs or astrology, theoretically they could be about Latin! All non-Wiccan material is "safe/ok for outsiders to know about." No Wiccan Wiccan lore, mysteries and practices are taught before Initiation. No Wiccan lore, mysteries and practices are taught to any Outer Court.

Thanks, and since I feel like huggling... *huggle*

I was going to ask a question, but I'm having a terrible time with the wording and I have to log off, so I suppose I'll ask later.
Again, thanks :3