i need backup

[Alarias]

hi there. ok where to start...well, as ive stated before, i have yet to decide on a particular religion or path to follow but i have been interested in witchcraft and paganism in general for years. from the little knowledge ive gained (through different books and websites) ive come to the conclusion that witchcraft is neither good or evil...i think its more of a tool, a spiritual practice that can be used for multiple purposes. and ive also come to the conclusion that wicca is a religion or spiritual path that often incorporates witchcraft into their beliefs (there are witches that follow wicca)
now, from reading various posts made by different members of this guild, ive also come to the conclusion that there are very many intelligent, well-read people here. so, i am asking the more knowledgeable people here if my conclusions are inaccurate or if they are correct.
(just to get this out of the way, no i am not wiccan and i am not claiming to be, i just want to make sure i understand the difference between being a witch and being wiccan and the exact reasons that the two words are not interchangeable)
i am in another guild that is having this discussion and i believe i am right, but since i have no real sources to back me up (or prove me wrong) i am looking to this guild for help. i would like to give information to those who are ignorant of the truth and are spreading falsehoods to all these people. and if i am in fact wrong, i will correct whatever mistakes ive made.
its just that there are people in there saying that wicca is just a prettier word for witchcraft..that witchcraft was just a word used by those people at Salem rolleyes there are others saying that wicca is good magic and witchcraft is dark magic...and its making me sick because im fairly positive that that is not true...
i would just like to talk to people who have sources i can use to prove these other people wrong and hopefully enlighten them so that they will not keep making these mistakes. thanks for your time and help (if any is offered)  

[tanwyn_llewellyn]

I can help direct your research, but you will be better able to make your argument if you have solid research to back you up. Try Daven's Journal  

[Neko_Bast]

This might help on the Wicca and Witchcraft debate. I found it on Wichvox.

Quote:

A Witch By Any Other Name (The Great Wicca vs. Witchcraft Debate

As for the rest......I'll let others answer ^-^  

[saint dreya]

Neko_Bast

This might help on the Wicca and Witchcraft debate. I found it on Wichvox.

Quote:

A Witch By Any Other Name (The Great Wicca vs. Witchcraft Debate

As for the rest......I'll let others answer ^-^

i have a problem with that article because it doesn't seem to give enough voice to the fact that gardner did create the religion of wicca. not 'witch-uh', but the religion that's actually pernounced 'wik-uh'. "Incidentally, there are some authors today who are so convinced that Gardner invented modern Wicca.."

oh, how could these people think such things? i don't know...maybe because he did!  

[Neko_Bast]

Quote:

I have a problem with that article because it doesn't seem to give enough voice to the fact that gardner did create the religion of wicca. not 'witch-uh', but the religion that's actually pronounced 'wik-uh'.

Fine ^-^ Gardners 'wik-uh'ns can have 'wik-uh. I'll practice 'witch-uh'.  

[Starlock]

Even so, Phoenix, I think that the harsh line people are drawing between Wicca and Witchcraft is obscuring their very close relationship with one another. I'm not sure where I draw the line, personally, but I know I define Witchcraft as a lot more than simply 'the practice of magic.' If that's all there is to Witchcraft I might as well call myself a wizard or sorcerer or something. That doesn't feel quite right to me. Nevermind that the two words are used completely interchangeably if you read some of the earlier works at the start of the Wiccan movement (which is something Mike brings up in his article).

Going back to the original post (which by the way, if the poster could edit that into more readable paragraphs that'd be very helpful)... for the most part I don't see anything wrong with the distinction you've made, though I'm not sure I find Witchcraft to be solely a 'tool' with no religious elements whatsoever. That's my personal opinion, however, so take it as you will.  

[maenad nuri]

Starlock

Even so, Phoenix, I think that the harsh line people are drawing between Wicca and Witchcraft is obscuring their very close relationship with one another. I'm not sure where I draw the line, personally, but I know I define Witchcraft as a lot more than simply 'the practice of magic.' If that's all there is to Witchcraft I might as well call myself a wizard or sorcerer or something. That doesn't feel quite right to me. Nevermind that the two words are used completely interchangeably if you read some of the earlier works at the start of the Wiccan movement (which is something Mike brings up in his article).

Going back to the original post (which by the way, if the poster could edit that into more readable paragraphs that'd be very helpful)... for the most part I don't see anything wrong with the distinction you've made, though I'm not sure I find Witchcraft to be solely a 'tool' with no religious elements whatsoever. That's my personal opinion, however, so take it as you will.

I find them being used interchangebly as general terms to be uncomfortable, though. Wicca is more than the practice of Witchcraft, and Witchcraft is more than the the religion of Wicca.

I suspect that the reason it was used interchangebly for so wrong was the misguided idea of the Witch Cult of Murrays flawed anthropology.

I do quite respect Nichols work. He's not perfect though. I'm finding fault with his assertation of the Witches of Diana...when he first (accuratly) says the word comes from anglo-saxon. I understand it comes from the 4th century, but something doesn't seem quite right there.  

[Alarias]

Starlock

which by the way, if the poster could edit that into more readable paragraphs that'd be very helpful

i tried to make the post easier to read. sorry about that. I'm not really used to making posts that long.

Thank you everyone for letting me know your thoughts on this.  

[saint dreya]

Neko_Bast

Quote:

I have a problem with that article because it doesn't seem to give enough voice to the fact that gardner did create the religion of wicca. not 'witch-uh', but the religion that's actually pronounced 'wik-uh'.

Fine ^-^ Gardners 'wik-uh'ns can have 'wik-uh. I'll practice 'witch-uh'.

to avoid confusion, why not just go by 'witch'?  

[Starlock]

Nuri

I find them being used interchangebly as general terms to be uncomfortable, though. Wicca is more than the practice of Witchcraft, and Witchcraft is more than the the religion of Wicca.

I suspect that the reason it was used interchangebly for so wrong was the misguided idea of the Witch Cult of Murrays flawed anthropology.

Eh, I'm not sure I agree with using them interchangeably either, though I think in certain contexts of conversation or discussion they can be used in that way. I suppose the community, particularily the group of academic scholars coming out who are studying the Neopagan movement, will help set some of these issues into the light. It may be they find the initial interchangeability is from the whole 'unbroken link to the Neolithic' theory. As some people still believe that theory (as mythology OR in the literal) that might be part of the reason why some of that interchangeability has been maintained even today. Who knows?