40k transforming into fantasy

[Nilador]

i got the 6th gen the day it came out and have read it front to back 4 times now and i'm not gonna lie: ITS A CHEAP KNOCK OFF OF FANTASY NOW scream stressed scream 40k was simple for the longest time simple and fun fantasy has to many rules for my taste yet 6th gen just dived into it all and from the way things look 7th or 8th gen will have the same rules for fantasy. i would rant but i don't believe this is the place to do so. And i can honestly say unless i'm at a GW i won't be playing 6th gen. sorry if this angers anyone  

[Hoxtalicious]

Can't wholly answer this just yet, seeing as I'm still waiting on my copy of the rules to arrive, but I do hope that it is less of a clusterfeth than the 5th edition, which is the main reason I quit playing back then.

Now, I wouldn't call it a knock-off in comparison to Fantasy though, as both systems still have plenty going that sets them apart. I do believe that Ward has taken a cue from the 8th edition of Fantasy in his attempt to turn 40k into a more cinematic and narrative driven game than before.

Some of the additions I do like are the optional psychic powers, the ability to shoot charging foes, rapid fire getting a much-needed boost, flyers being an official addition (As an Elysian player, I of course, rejoice!), fortifications gain more use outside of Planetstrike and allies have been added in to some capacity.

I've read all about the abuses the new rules seem to offer but I don't care. Mind, I am not a do-or-die WAAC player, I play for fun really, winning isn't a goal, but always welcome when it does happen. ninja

But please, do share with us what bothers you, I am honestly curious and I'm sure others are as well. Though I will say that this edition is barely a week out now, so some time might have to pass before we can render full judgement. wink  

[Hoxtalicious]

Okay, having taken some time to read the rules now, I think the OP is a wee bit overreacting, no offence taken or anger created, but give it a shot, play half a dozen games, this edition is just barely two weeks out now and already people are screaming bloody murder.

Which is the very same thing that happened to every edition of 40k since the third really.

Yes games now take a bit longer to set up, run and go through, but hey, this is a new edition and like all new things, they take time to get used to and for us to get a hang of how it works and can be sped up.

Keep calm and roll those dice. wink  

[Jason Kharo]

From reading over it and getting a rough overview, I can say this rulebook favours Shooting armies, as Warhammer 40k should do regardless. It makes Melee armies work much, much harder to get into combat nowadays, especially with things like snap shot.

My friend gave me the scenario yesterday of 30 Shoota Boys with 2 shots each getting charged. It wouldn't end very well. Nevermind Lootas.  

[Lady Blodwynn]

Agreed on this edition putting shooting over charging. Melee has been too dominant in the previous edition.

However, I wouldn't say that Overwatch is a big deal. It can disrupt a charge when you roll good, but it isn't as overpowered as some make it out to be.  

[Van Evok]

unless youre charging burna boyz, even marines dont like that, and for say wyches its amounting to suicide...  

[Hoxtalicious]

Van Evok

unless youre charging burna boyz, even marines dont like that, and for say wyches its amounting to suicide...

Orks are I2, so whether they charge or are charged, they're screwed by Marines and the ladies for the most part. Sure, each Burna does D3 hits on the attackers, but those are Burna attacks, not power weapon.  

[Van Evok]

Lt. Brookman

Van Evok

unless youre charging burna boyz, even marines dont like that, and for say wyches its amounting to suicide...

Orks are I2, so whether they charge or are charged, they're screwed by Marines and the ladies for the most part. Sure, each Burna does D3 hits on the attackers, but those are Burna attacks, not power weapon.

and wyches are armor save 6+! oddly enough they dodge power weapons once in melee...
on average, 10 burna boyz do 20 s4 ap5 hits = 13 dead wyches = 10 dead genestealers = 6 dead banshees = 3 dead MEQ  

[Nilador]

don't forget that power weapons are now ap3 same the fist and hammers  

[Van Evok]

Power swords - and most force weapons - are ap3, power mauls ap4... Fists, chainfists and hammers are still ap2, but this change alone makes all kinds of termywing - from pseudowing (with elite slots) via GK to classic Deathwing - much more viable... and by comparison few units like Banshees and Incubi much less viable. Oh and characters wth 2+ save are now really much better!  

[Lady Blodwynn]

I think giving the 2+ armour saves and especially terminators and MANZ a better run for their money is the main reason why power weapons got AP values.  

[Asmondai]

Van Evok

but this change alone makes all kinds of termywing - from pseudowing (with elite slots) via GK to classic Deathwing - much more viable..

Granted that most WAAC players would take termies because of this,
but changes are those armies will suffers greatly on army composition,
GK termies alone will cost an arm and a leg when you take more then 5 and
on an army that doesn´t posses that much long range support will have a hard time
of marching to battle under severe firestorm or pray that techpriests have got
the teleporter to work right. <.<"

Army size will take a nose dive aswell, the cheapest possible termie-squad with 10men on GK is 400ps, 550 if you take paladins. D:

You´d be better off with deathwings, but even then you would only have
5men squads and would have to take dreggies and maybe a land raider
for long range back up, unless you get the cyclone launcher. :/  

[Hoxtalicious]

Asmondai

Van Evok

but this change alone makes all kinds of termywing - from pseudowing (with elite slots) via GK to classic Deathwing - much more viable..

Granted that most WAAC players would take termies because of this,
but changes are those armies will suffers greatly on army composition,
GK termies alone will cost an arm and a leg when you take more then 5 and
on an army that doesn´t posses that much long range support will have a hard time
of marching to battle under severe firestorm or pray that techpriests have got
the teleporter to work right. <.<"

Army size will take a nose dive aswell, the cheapest possible termie-squad with 10men on GK is 400ps, 550 if you take paladins. D:

You´d be better off with deathwings, but even then you would only have
5men squads and would have to take dreggies and maybe a land raider
for long range back up, unless you get the cyclone launcher. :/

Chaps, maybe keep the Dark Angel list building and comparing to the Space Marine thread, not spread across half a dozen others? wink  

[BlackBelt844]

I play both Fantasy and 40k and I have to agree with the others that it is indeed focusing more on the shooting aspect. Sure some of the rules make me feel a little unsure, like the new psychic spells and the levels for the psykers. But honestly, I like most of the new rules, even though they do end up messing me up, like the flamers, can't really charge at IG flamer team or Burna Boyz with my chaos marines and lesser daemons like I use to. x-x  

[Vikki Stardust]

I think its time to consolidate the 6th edition threads a bit. Please take all further comparisons between 40k and fantasy to this thread: http://www.gaiaonline.com/guilds/viewtopic.php?t=23099644&page=1