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[TatteredAngel]

Bite the Wax Tadpole

Very good question. That rite is part of the evidence for the theory that the whole Indo-European culture started with nomads moving from India to Ireland (or perhaps the other way around, I forget) and stopping at various points along the way. The points in the middle show the most difference from the original culture. The points at the very beginning, where not everybody left from, and at the very end, where they could go no further, are most similar culturally. I don't remember exactly why this is, though.

Of course, this is just a theory. It may be true, it may not be.

India to Ireland- it would have been the Indo-Aryans moving up and eventually landing a chunk of them there- though if I remember right from my Indo-European linguistics class, in the Irish one the king didn't have to be in the cauldron while the horse was being killed. He copulated with it, then they made soup out of it, and... at that point, he may have bathed in the soup too, but my memory fails around there.  

[saint dreya]

Bite the Wax Tadpole

missmagpie

Why only Ireland and India, I wonder?

Very good question. That rite is part of the evidence for the theory that the whole Indo-European culture started with nomads moving from India to Ireland (or perhaps the other way around, I forget) and stopping at various points along the way. The points in the middle show the most difference from the original culture. The points at the very beginning, where not everybody left from, and at the very end, where they could go no further, are most similar culturally. I don't remember exactly why this is, though.

Of course, this is just a theory. It may be true, it may not be.

In Search of the Indo-Europeans

i'm reading that book and it is such a pain, xp

i'd point out that they haven't really defined where the indo-europeans first started out, or that they did migrate from india to ireland, specifically. there is a lot of conflicting information, and some bits we just don't know about at all.

but yes, in that book it does mention a ritual involving a king stewing in the same pot a horse was quartered and thrown in, while eating it's flesh. i think a different practice was lying with a dead horse, not necessarily copulating with it and then stewing with it while eating it. when i get home, i'll reread that part and post here again.  

[CuAnnan]

phoenix_shadowwolf

In Search of the Indo-Europeans

i'm reading that book and it is such a pain, xp

i'd point out that they haven't really defined where the indo-europeans first started out, or that they did migrate from india to ireland, specifically. there is a lot of conflicting information, and some bits we just don't know about at all.

but yes, in that book it does mention a ritual involving a king stewing in the same pot a horse was quartered and thrown in, while eating it's flesh. i think a different practice was lying with a dead horse, not necessarily copulating with it and then stewing with it while eating it. when i get home, i'll reread that part and post here again.

I can't remember my source so I'm not citing this as fact, just something I picked up along the way.... the way I heard it, the Irish Celts went from Greece through Africa as opposed to through Europe to get to Ireland which accounts for the curly hair and the bodhran, as I hear it the only other western cultural drum.  

[saint dreya]

no clue on it. the book i mention, J.P. Mallory gives voice to every idea about the indo-european homeland as well as how they spread. there are a great number of ideas apparently, and any given one contradicts at least two others.

okay. the horse sacrifices.

according to In Search of the Indo-Europeans by J.P. Mallory, there was an Indic rite, asvamedha where a prized stallion was chosen. he was released into the world to roam about, supervised and followed by warriors to make sure that no one did anything to the stallion and so that it didn't come into contact with any mares. after a year, it was ceremoniously smothered, after which, the favored wife of the king would "co-habitate" with the dead horse with the covers over them. then the horse cut into sections and offered to the gods of the three functions. the warrior god was the main recipient.

the Romans' sacrifice, October Equus, after a horse race on the ides of October, the right-sided horse was also dismembered and offered to deities of the three functions.

medieval Ireland, inauguration of a tribal king of Ulster, a mare was sacrificed, dismembered, the pieces were boiled, and the broth was used to bathe the king while he ate the pieces of horse flesh. (pgs 135 & 136).  

[Naomi Tinuveil]

::Raises hand:: ok, I have absolutely NO idea where that whole sacrificed horse-cauldron-thing came from. But as for India and Ireland having the same traditions. I happen to be bohemian by heritage, a type of gypsy; gypsy cultures originated in India and began to venture westward. Some stayed to establish their own country (hense Bohemian until its dimise in world war II, which is now present day Czech Republic. Though the City of Prague, Bohemias capital, still remains as is.)) And others traveled to parts of England (suffolk to be exact) and traveled up through Germainic regions and into Ireland. I happen to be Irish as well. Having came from that exact culture I thought it'd be nice to share. Of course if anyone has any evidence disproving it, I'd be interested to learn more; I seem to be at a standstill within my family geneology. lol sweatdrop  

[TheDisreputableDog]

//Waits for the Tea-bomb.//  

[TeaDidikai]

Hesh DD. You're paranoid.

Naomi Tinuveil

::Raises hand:: ok, I have absolutely NO idea where that whole sacrificed horse-cauldron-thing came from. But as for India and Ireland having the same traditions. I happen to be bohemian by heritage, a type of gypsy; gypsy cultures originated in India and began to venture westward. Some stayed to establish their own country (hense Bohemian until its dimise in world war II, which is now present day Czech Republic. Though the City of Prague, Bohemias capital, still remains as is.)) And others traveled to parts of England (suffolk to be exact) and traveled up through Germainic regions and into Ireland. I happen to be Irish as well. Having came from that exact culture I thought it'd be nice to share. Of course if anyone has any evidence disproving it, I'd be interested to learn more; I seem to be at a standstill within my family geneology. lol sweatdrop

Note a couple things here- 1) That word is an ethnic slur. 2) Bohemians are not part of the Rroma and the name is a slang term assigned to Rroma by the French. Not a self identifier. The term used to designate inhabitants of the former kingdom of Bohemia, which is again, not the same as the Rroma.

Please note that there is still debate amongst the Rroma as to the initial heritage of the Rroma. India is just one amongst many popular suggestions.

Furthermore- for one to be Rroma of any tribe, one must be part of the culture. Unless you have made steps to connect with any culture of your ancestral line, you're simply not. As it happens all to often the shifting from ethnocentric to a melting pot leaves many muts (myself included at times) with a sense of isolation. This is now a bad thing unto itself, save for when you lay claim to something you are not.

Edit: Of note- other groups who are not counted as Rroma include the Tinkers and the Pikies.

Nor do Bohemians have the same linguistical roots as the Rroma.  

[Naomi Tinuveil]

::shot down with slight cringe:: Thanks for the info, but I'm going to have to stake my claims nontheless even if it does make me look like an a** ((which I'm fully well aware it does))

TeaDidiKai

As it happens all to often the shifting from ethnocentric to a melting pot leaves many muts (myself included at times) with a sense of isolation. This is now a bad thing unto itself, save for when you lay claim to something you are not.

I'm not a complete mutt, I only contain 3 nationalities. Irish, Bohemian, Native American ~ Born in Canada.

TeaDidiKai

for one to be Rroma of any tribe, one must be part of the culture. Unless you have made steps to connect with any culture of your ancestral line, you're simply not.

And on that note, I do agree that to be part of one such so called tribe, you have to be part ofthat culture. Which I am; I live around Cleveland Ohio and there is a rather structured community of us; not just me. Of which my entire family is apart as well as that of other families of same descent.

TeaDidiKai

Nor do Bohemians have the same linguistical roots as the Rroma.

while this may have some logic to it, it will prohibit me from being apart of and celebrating my heritage.  

[TeaDidikai]

You seem to be missing my point.

I don't care if you're Bohemian, just don't use the ethnic slur and don't claim it as they aren't the same thing.  

[saint dreya]

Naomi Tinuveil

TeaDidiKai

As it happens all to often the shifting from ethnocentric to a melting pot leaves many muts (myself included at times) with a sense of isolation. This is now a bad thing unto itself, save for when you lay claim to something you are not.

I'm not a complete mutt, I only contain 3 nationalities. Irish, Bohemian, Native American ~ Born in Canada.

i believe a mutt is composed of at least two different nationalities.

my mother and grandmother have both told me my background. Irish, Scottish, British, German, Native American, and from my own findings, the first of my last name coming from Spain. i can lay no claim to any of these because i was effectively born and raised (most of my life) in the US and have at least three nonpracticing generations seperating me from any of these nationalities. my point being that if one is not raised or living in the culture, i think even one nonpracticing generation seperates one from claiming that nationality.

i believe parts of Bohemia could be considered parts of Germany. please, anyone, correct me if i'm wrong.