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Katydid50

Dedicated Seeker

PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 4:22 pm
"12All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged under the law. 13For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God's sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. 14(Indeed, when the Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law, 15since they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts now accusing, now even defending them.)"

Romans 2:12-15

I've been wondering about this passage for a long time and have yet to come up with an understanding of it. What are your thoughts on it?  
PostPosted: Sun Jul 03, 2011 10:19 pm
The first few verses are okay for me, but I admit I get a little lost toward the end. The verses before were talking about judgement according to one's deeds.

For all who have sinned without the Law will also perish without the Law
The Law (to the Jews) were the last three books of the Torah. Those who don't believe in/follow the Law are those "without the "Law." Dying without the Law means that you haven't held yourself to this standard of living and spiritual development, and those people don't have the protection that acceptance of the Law provides.

and all who have sinned under the Law will be judged by the Law
Fairly self-explanatory. Believers who have sinned will be judged.

for it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified.
Just because someone has HEARD the message doesn't mean they'll live it. If you take the message to heart, you have little to fear in the coming judgement.

For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law,
When you act in accordance with the things of God, even if you haven't heard of him

these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves
This is where I start falling off the train of understanding. I don't know if this means that humans who act righteous even without knowing there is a book of conduct then make their own code of conduct and are then judged by that instead of say... Leviticus or what exactly.

in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness
Again, some people are just naturally drawn to a righteous life. These folks are close to God, even if they don't know it. My personal opinion is that Gandhi was such a man. He had the light of God very bright in him, despite not being Christian. Maybe this could back Romans 1:18-21 “For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse.” We always assume it's the physical world, but perhaps it's creating human beings who stand out a little more, and intrinsically KNOW what is right.

and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them
I assume here the accusing thoughts are those people knowing that they have erred on some level, and the defending thoughts are those thoughts that are reassuring them that they have acted rightly.

on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus/
I finished the passage, because it seemed fitting. No matter who you are, where you are, your living situation, your knowledge (or lack thereof) of the Bible, God or Jesus, there WILL be a judgement of some kind. However, it DOES seem that accepting Jesus is not the only way to end up close to God. I'm sure there are greater rewards for those that do, just as the Jews will have greater rewards than us Gentiles who are also believers.

I could be wrong, and there's a great amount of guesswork in my interpretation. I admit that, while I've had a good education in matters of the NT, I don't know all, and I'd love to hear someone else's input.  

The Amazing Ryuu
Captain

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