Abuse

[Ravynne Sidhe]

`Though thy crest be shorn and shaven, thou,' I said, `art sure no craven.
Ghastly grim and ancient raven wandering from the nightly shore -

Yup I pulled out a major topic not only because of how it's affected my life so far but it's something of a topic of interest since I brought it up with my new found Catholic friend on imvu. Don't you just love how most of my bullshit and topics come from imvu xD

Anyways, we were talking about Saints, specifically Saint Francis, who is probably my favorite saint of them all. Next to St. Jeanne D'Arc and St. Bridget. Anyways she was amazed at how the violence that St. Francis witnessed turned to God and did God's work. I eloquently put that humans sometimes learn from pain and sorrow, which seems to be the case in many of the Saints.

Now the topic is not about the saints, but after that she mentioned abuse and claiming that abuse doesn't come from God. Now I guess you could say that I'm an abuse victim because of the amount of verbal and emotional abuse I've received for much of my life. She thinks that abuse only teaches people to hate and be hated. While that can be sort of true but it's purely case by case. For me, yes I do hate my mother for what she has done to me and what she continues to do. However I don't go out and hate others and wish to be hated. (Aside from my random emotional breakdowns and depressive states).

What irked about it is that she tried to say that sometimes abuse happens for a reason unknown or something (I closed the room >.>) and gave an example of a deaf child. And how a parent doesn't know if the child is deaf or could be ignoring someone.

So discuss:

Where does abuse come from?
Can abuse victims learn to love from abuse?
Are abuse victims doomed repeaters?
Was my friend's example illogical?

Tell me what thy lordly name is on the Night's Plutonian shore!'
Quoth the raven, `Nevermore.'

 

[Lord Maxdom]

I can speak from personal opinion, since I have seen my fair share of abuse(As with at least like, 90% of the population.)

Now this may sound odd at first, but just wait till the end to understand what I'm saying.

I remember once when I was younger, that I had certain views that many did not like. A group of young Christians at my school would always tease me about it but I always made childish remarks about them saying they were idiots, etc. Well, one day they got steamed at me because as a way to get back at them making fun of my mother I made fun of the bible.

I had hit a soft spot, so they decided to retaliate. About a week later I was on the playground(Grade six was when this all happened) and suddenly I felt a sharp pain in the back of my head. Next thing I knew I was face first in dirt with somebody on top of me. Those kids that hated me had literally attacked me, and were beating me. Nothing was broken, but it was pretty close to it. They kept beating me and taunting me until finally my friend at the time Willy(William) ran up and pushed one of them off me. He said he was going to tell and they ran.

Now, I tried to explain what happened to the teachers but of course I was pretty enraged. I was sad, but mainly filled with fury. I was known for having a temper and being in fights, so they thought I was making it up. Especially since the kids that attacked me were known to be the most peaceful kids. Well for a time after that because of the actions of those few, I started really hating Christians, of any kind. I couldn't "Forgive them for what they'd done." My words, not mine....You get what I mean.

Years passed and abuse against me by religious people happened in highschool, so I was getting pretty hating of religion by this point. Then the lamest thing that could possibly have happened changed my life. I got really obsessed with Star Wars. I stop focusing on Science to "Disprove Christianity." Again, younger my words, not currently mine. I kept focusing on the Jedi and religions within Star Wars, how they reflected the ones in the real world. How the Sith fought against them, how the Sith weren't exactly evil at times and the Jedi were. How tides would change and one group would ruin it for the others. Somehow, through my reading of many Star Wars novels I calmed down and gave up my blood hunt. Now, I study theology and treat all religions with respect and the attention they deserve. Now I don't hate any religions because of what a few members may have done to me, and I believe I've grown a greater understanding in my own beliefs due to this.

So I guess in a way, my hatred of religion was the perfect tool to create my great acceptance and understand of religion. It gave me a real perspective on what people might think or believe about a religion they disagree with. And my job is to help create peace and understand when it comes to the religions of the world, I understand the mind of a person who only thinks of hate.

This may not have exactly been on topic, but I felt there was at least some relevance to this story.  

[freelance lover]

Where does abuse come from? From people failing to understand how to interact with others, sometimes from hatred. Sometime the need to manipulate or desire to control. It caries.

Can abuse victims learn to love from abuse? I'm sure they can. There are plenty of people with abusive parents who vow to be good parents, and do a damn good job, and plenty of people with abusive partners who go on to have healthy relationships. I myself was in a relationship that was borderline abusive for years, but I've learned from it and have moved on and am now in a very healthy relationship.

Are abuse victims doomed repeaters? I don't think so, but I don't think it's any surprise abusers were abused, especially as children. A man who saw his mother abused by his father won't have a better example with how to relate to his own wife.

Was my friend's example illogical? I think it's true sometimes. It all depends on the circumstances and the people involved. I dunno, it's kind of here nor there.  

[Requiem Arc]

On the quick topic of your list of Saints, I also think Jeanne D'Arc is awesome.

As for abuse I would agree with Freelance on where it comes from. As far as I'm concerned no abuse ever comes from God, nor any harm, but that's another topic.

As far as can abuse victims rise above their circumstances and learn to love, absolutely. There are plenty of examples where people have overcome a challenging life.

The last point pretty much answers whether or not they are doomed repeaters, though it is no surprise that abusers have often been abused themselves for the most part.

The example your friend gave does seem illogical to me.

P.S. Way to go Tolvo for choosing to learning to understand others and your own reasons in the past, whether it was through Star Wars or anything else.  

[Lord Maxdom]

When I tell my children that story someday I might leave out the Star Wars part of the story, and replace it with a less lame reason to change. sweatdrop  

[Requiem Arc]

Lord Maxdom

When I tell my children that story someday I might leave out the Star Wars part of the story, and replace it with a less lame reason to change. sweatdrop

Never! Star Wars is awesome... o.o

lol, but seriously, I'm a fan too so no worries.  

[Naristar]

Your topic caught my eye. So I thought I might add a few of my own veiws to the party

Where does abuse come from?....

As far as i can recall abuse comes from the need to feel power over others.
Something is broken inside those who abuse others, and they think that making others feel small or causing pain to them will make them feel better about themselves

Can abuse victims learn to love from abuse?....

I'm not sure about your choice of words there.
Learn how to treat others, certainly
How to show love, maybe
Appreciate kindness, most definatly

Are abuse victims doomed repeaters?

No they are not, as humans we all have a choice.
I say this as a victim of bullies and emotional abuse all through my school years.
I was the short fat girl with the lisp, and boy did i catch hell for it. I think back and remember crying alot, but I also remember it giving me ways to make friends. The enemy of my enemy is my friend. As the saying goes.
Those years taught me the meaning of friendship, the value of kindness, and how to forgive. I know alot of people like me can be bitter they can't see the forest for the trees. I look back on the whole thing not just the incidents and I realize I wouldn't be the person I am without those things. I will never abuse or bully another person, cause hurting others won't heal me.  

[Fushigi na Butterfly]

Wow, this topic is so up my alley. smile

Abuse comes from a lot of places. It comes from people having an imbalance of chemicals or underdeveloped structures in the brain, who just don't understand the appropriate way to interact with others and attain what they want. It comes from those who have experienced abuse themselves and are therefore hurt, angry, scared, sad, and don't know any other way to deal with that pain except to lash out at others and "take from the world what the world owes them." It comes from a desire to control. Do I think it comes from God? Maybe indirectly. I think that God allows things to happen, even bad things. Just look at Job. God explicitly allowed Satan to wreak havoc upon Job's life, all for the sake of drawing Job closer to Him. I believe that God allows similar situations in our lives. There is the ability to learn from them, and grow. Not everyone does, but then, those that don't were probably never told, or never realized, that it was okay to learn and grow, and to take that experience and make it into something positive.

I believe victims can learn to love from abuse, depending on the circumstance. When I and my mother and brothers were in an abusive situation, I learned to love them very strongly. I became their protector. I continue with this style of love towards everyone. I hate to see anyone in pain, suffering, so I do what I can, and sometimes more, to try to alleviate that.

I wouldn't say that abuse survivors are necessarily doomed to repeat abusive behavior. They might be more prone to distorted thinking that may cause them to act inappropriately or abusively towards others, but I think that it really depends on the resources and healing available to them. A lot of times, abuse victims will turn their abusive patterns inward, and punish themselves rather than others. If you think about what I mentioned about where abuse comes from, a history of abuse can definitely play a factor. But I don't think it's necessarily written in stone. If so, I'm doomed. D:

I'm not really sure what her example of the deaf child has to do with anything, but I'd agree that everything happens for a reason.  

[The Amazing Ryuu]

I think there is a very fine line to be drawn between 'victim' and 'survivor.' For anyone that goes through a traumatic experience - be it abuse, rape, molestation, or other topics not fit for conversation in polite society - those two words indicate two very different sets of people.

Victims allow the experience to seep into them, and perhaps even control them. In the case of this thread, the abuse victim has a lot of fear, anxiety, and anger to deal with. Fushigi's psycho-babble is all correct. Victims are also the group more likely to strike out and abuse others (or themselves).

Survivors are different. They allow themselves to get over the trauma, grow, and get on with their lives. Not to say that what happened wasn't terrible, and that they won't bear the scars (physical or otherwise) for the rest of their lives, but the experience doesn't DEFINE them. It doesn't control them or their actions. These are the people who are less likely to be repeat abusers, because they've been able to heal. Victims sometimes can't, or sometimes refuse to. Some are just unlucky enough to be unable to access any resources to start the process. Victims can become survivors, in time, if they can find it within themselves to heal.  

[Fushigi na Butterfly]

The Amazing Ryuu

Victims can become survivors, in time, if they can find it within themselves to heal.

This is beautiful. I might get it as a tattoo. Seriously.  

[The Amazing Ryuu]

Fushigi na Butterfly

The Amazing Ryuu

Victims can become survivors, in time, if they can find it within themselves to heal.

This is beautiful. I might get it as a tattoo. Seriously.

But only if you get it with the Gaia-style quotes. wink  

[zz1000zz]

The Amazing Ryuu

I think there is a very fine line to be drawn between 'victim' and 'survivor.' For anyone that goes through a traumatic experience - be it abuse, rape, molestation, or other topics not fit for conversation in polite society - those two words indicate two very different sets of people.

Victims allow the experience to seep into them, and perhaps even control them. In the case of this thread, the abuse victim has a lot of fear, anxiety, and anger to deal with. Fushigi's psycho-babble is all correct. Victims are also the group more likely to strike out and abuse others (or themselves).

Survivors are different. They allow themselves to get over the trauma, grow, and get on with their lives. Not to say that what happened wasn't terrible, and that they won't bear the scars (physical or otherwise) for the rest of their lives, but the experience doesn't DEFINE them. It doesn't control them or their actions. These are the people who are less likely to be repeat abusers, because they've been able to heal. Victims sometimes can't, or sometimes refuse to. Some are just unlucky enough to be unable to access any resources to start the process. Victims can become survivors, in time, if they can find it within themselves to heal.

I never liked this distinction. I understand why it is made (so "survivors" have a positive way to identify themselves to combat stereotypes), but it always rang false to me.

I've been the victim of abuse. I've been the victim of car accidents. I could conceivably be the victim of identity theft. What is the value in changing "victim" to "survivor" in any of those?  

[The Amazing Ryuu]

zz1000zz

I never liked this distinction. I understand why it is made (so "survivors" have a positive way to identify themselves to combat stereotypes), but it always rang false to me.

I've been the victim of abuse. I've been the victim of car accidents. I could conceivably be the victim of identity theft. What is the value in changing "victim" to "survivor" in any of those?

It's not usually a tag for the person who experienced the issue to identify themselves, but rather the people who deal with them later. A psychologist will approach a victim differently than a survivor. The family councilor will advise those close to the victim to react differently than those close to a survivor. Yes, eventually a victim can see him/herself as a survivor, and feel much better about both the experience and as a person, but really the label isn't FOR them.  

[Fushigi na Butterfly]

Well, sometimes it's for the person who experienced the abuse. It can be helpful for the individual to distinguish between different periods of healing -- before healing, or at the very moment the abuse occurred, they might describe themselves as a victim, and after, they may prefer to use the term survivor to describe how they've changed or grown or healed. It really depends on the person. Survivor sounds much more empowering, so supporters, as well as the affected individuals, may have their own preferences.