Prosperity preaching

[Fushigi na Butterfly]

So, as I've mentioned before in some other discussions, I went to a New Years service with my friend for NYE. The message was about prosperity in all areas of life, especially for the new year, but also regarding money. The pastor cited many instances in the New Testament where Jesus was hanging out with high-statused people, eating at their houses, visiting, and pretty much travelling all over the place from one rich person's house to another. The point he was trying to make was that Jesus wasn't actually poor, and never preached a message of poverty in possessions.

I was just wondering if anyone else has ever heard a similar message, and what you think about it. Do you feel the New Testament evidences that Jesus wasn't actually poor, and that He doesn't teach us to be poor?  

[Matt Pniewski]

The Members of the Justice League hang out with other members of the Justice League. That doesn't mean that they aren't doing anything for the common man....


Point is, Jesus preached about the poor, in particular, helping the poor.

Jesus replied, “‘You shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not steal, you shall not give false testimony, 19 honor your father and mother,’[a] and ‘love your neighbor as yourself.’”

20 “All these I have kept,” the young man said. “What do I still lack?”

21 Jesus answered, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”

22 When the young man heard this, he went away sad, because he had great wealth.

23 Then Jesus said to his disciples, “Truly I tell you, it is hard for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of heaven. 24 Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.”

Matthew 19:16-24

Even a more conservative interpretation would say that the crime is not in being wealthy, but in being unable to give. What I don't like is that, from what you described, wealth is a noble pursuit, which it is not. Having Wealth is not necessarily a sin, but not sharing the wealth is, not using it to help others is a sin.

Unfortunately, we live in a day where people can donate money to Charity for selfish reasons. tax shelters, image issues, ect. Charity isn't optional, and wealth should not drive your life. If you come into money, their is no sin in having. Hoarding it, however, is another story.  

[freelance lover]

That's an interesting position. I'm not entirely sure I agree with it, but it's certainly a thought.

I think just because Jesus was hanging out with rich people doesn't mean he was rich. He just knew the right people who were willing to share the wealth with him. Kind of like how some Buddhist monks live on next to nothing and rely on the community to feed them.

I wonder if maybe Jesus was trying to make an example. Not that you have to be poor, but that if you are lucky enough to be blessed with wealth, you should share it with those who aren't, like the rich shared with Jesus.  

[The Amazing Ryuu]

I've heard a sermon or two about not feeling guilty just because you have money. I think that was mostly backed by the "have life and have it abundantly" passage, and some of the thoughts already mentioned here. Jesus obviously didn't condemn every rich man he came across. It was just the rich men who treated their wealth as an idol. If the goal is to direct people toward God, he had to get their focus off their money first.  

[Fushigi na Butterfly]

Well, another part of the prosperity sermon was that in order to be blessed abundantly, one had to use one's wealth and possessions to bless others abundantly (i.e. giving your money to the church). I was talking to my dad about it, and he says it's a dishonest sort of way to get people to tithe more to the church. I'm not really sure what I think about it, since I'd never heard such a message before. Both interpretations are compelling to me.  

[The Amazing Ryuu]

Fushigi na Butterfly

Well, another part of the prosperity sermon was that in order to be blessed abundantly, one had to use one's wealth and possessions to bless others abundantly (i.e. giving your money to the church). I was talking to my dad about it, and he says it's a dishonest sort of way to get people to tithe more to the church. I'm not really sure what I think about it, since I'd never heard such a message before. Both interpretations are compelling to me.

Yeah, another "planting the seed" sermon... I don't trust those. At all. I'll tithe what and when I can, and nobody should try to guilt me into it. Or try the route of the Crusade calls, saying I'll be eternally blessed later if I do this thing I feel iffy about now.  

[Zolof Keeper Of Souls]

I'm fine with this. I hear it all the time. I believe that in order to help people we must be prosperous. I mean how are we suppose to help people in the dead of the jungle if we don't even have money for a flight there, and why would Jesus want his followers to be poor?  

[freelance lover]

The Amazing Ryuu

Fushigi na Butterfly

Well, another part of the prosperity sermon was that in order to be blessed abundantly, one had to use one's wealth and possessions to bless others abundantly (i.e. giving your money to the church). I was talking to my dad about it, and he says it's a dishonest sort of way to get people to tithe more to the church. I'm not really sure what I think about it, since I'd never heard such a message before. Both interpretations are compelling to me.

Yeah, another "planting the seed" sermon... I don't trust those. At all. I'll tithe what and when I can, and nobody should try to guilt me into it. Or try the route of the Crusade calls, saying I'll be eternally blessed later if I do this thing I feel iffy about now.

Yes.  

[Fushigi na Butterfly]

Zolof Keeper Of Souls

I'm fine with this. I hear it all the time. I believe that in order to help people we must be prosperous. I mean how are we suppose to help people in the dead of the jungle if we don't even have money for a flight there, and why would Jesus want his followers to be poor?

This is true. I think it's one of those messages that is more relevant now than it may have been originally, considering how much of our society is based around money. There are so many charitable organizations that require money to help others, and it's hard to be a part of that if you can't even afford to take care of yourself.  

[[GoGo]]

The thing about prosperity preaching is they focus on the "jesus wants to save you from your debt, jesus wants you to have that bmw, jesus wants you to have dat moneyz" But dude, jesus wants you to trust him and live for him and follow him wherever he calls you to go. Yes he will provide, but thats the thing, PROVIDE. That doesnt mean he is gonna make a money tree spawn out of hte ground for you.

Sometimes prosperity preaching leads people astray because they are told that once they follow this jesus guy that they will have mad cash, but then it doesn't happen and they throw the baby out with the bath water.

Jesus also stated the poor have much more then the wealthy. Since in wealth we do tend to trust in that more then in what is worth trusting. Just as someone stated earlier with the rich young ruler.

In the end, Jesus doesn't want to give you bmws and fat stacks of cash, he wants to give you peace of knowing your sins are forgiven and the love of the Father that is the richest thing you can possible obtain in this whole world.  

[The Amazing Ryuu]

[GoGo]

The thing about prosperity preaching is they focus on the "jesus wants to save you from your debt, jesus wants you to have that bmw, jesus wants you to have dat moneyz" But dude, jesus wants you to trust him and live for him and follow him wherever he calls you to go. Yes he will provide, but thats the thing, PROVIDE. That doesnt mean he is gonna make a money tree spawn out of hte ground for you.

We are told that our needs will be taken care of. What we too often forget is that our needs will change with Christ.