Huge Plot Hole

[Curtis25]

I was watching STII today and something so obvious hit me that i felt really stupid. Shouldn't Saavic while watching Spock being loaded into the torpedo spoken up and said "hey i'm a Vulcan and we can't do this he has to go to Vulcan". Did i miss something?  

[Matt Pniewski]

More importantly, Spock has been part of the crew for ages, he was Captain at that point. The Federation and the Vulcans have been allied forever. Anyone should have known. I mean, they can pull up information on just about any species they've encountered, but don't know a core thing about the Vulcan people.

I mean, I understand these things in the original series. They kept switching different writers, so their was a lack of consistency....  

[Curtis25]

Matt Pniewski

More importantly, Spock has been part of the crew for ages, he was Captain at that point. The Federation and the Vulcans have been allied forever. Anyone should have known. I mean, they can pull up information on just about any species they've encountered, but don't know a core thing about the Vulcan people.

I mean, I understand these things in the original series. They kept switching different writers, so their was a lack of consistency....

yeah but you have to remember that vulcans are kinda a private race. alot of their longest held traditions are kept very private. but in this case saavik should have known what was at atake and done something about it.  

[Steel Sterling]

Curtis25

I was watching STII today and something so obvious hit me that i felt really stupid. Shouldn't Saavic while watching Spock being loaded into the torpedo spoken up and said "hey i'm a Vulcan and we can't do this he has to go to Vulcan". Did i miss something?

Here's how I see it.

Saavik knew Spock had died isolated, so his katra should have been
destroyed. So, the only thing left (as she thought) was an empty shell.

That's why a Vulcan actually shed a tear as Spock was "buried"-
his DESTRUCTION was so profoundly tragic and sad for any Vulcan-
especially someone she knew- that she felt enough emotion to shed
a tear.

Mind you, I have at least 3 glaring errors from that movie, but that
wasn't any of them.

Although I do think Spock should have grabbed a HELMET when he
grabbed the gloves. He still would have been dead, but he was more
likely to survive long enough to complete the jury-rigging
(the temporary repair.)  

[Curtis25]

Steel Sterling

Curtis25

I was watching STII today and something so obvious hit me that i felt really stupid. Shouldn't Saavic while watching Spock being loaded into the torpedo spoken up and said "hey i'm a Vulcan and we can't do this he has to go to Vulcan". Did i miss something?

Here's how I see it.

Saavik knew Spock had died isolated, so his katra should have been
destroyed. So, the only thing left (as she thought) was an empty shell.

That's why a Vulcan actually shed a tear as Spock was "buried"-
his DESTRUCTION was so profoundly tragic and sad for any Vulcan-
especially someone she knew- that she felt enough emotion to shed
a tear.

Mind you, I have at least 3 glaring errors from that movie, but that
wasn't any of them.

Although I do think Spock should have grabbed a HELMET when he
grabbed the gloves. He still would have been dead, but he was more
likely to survive long enough to complete the jury-rigging
(the temporary repair.)

what where the other errors. i don't watch the wok to much. it not one of my favorites.  

[Steel Sterling]

Curtis25

Steel Sterling

Curtis25

I was watching STII today and something so obvious hit me that i felt really stupid. Shouldn't Saavic while watching Spock being loaded into the torpedo spoken up and said "hey i'm a Vulcan and we can't do this he has to go to Vulcan". Did i miss something?

Here's how I see it.

Saavik knew Spock had died isolated, so his katra should have been
destroyed. So, the only thing left (as she thought) was an empty shell.

That's why a Vulcan actually shed a tear as Spock was "buried"-
his DESTRUCTION was so profoundly tragic and sad for any Vulcan-
especially someone she knew- that she felt enough emotion to shed
a tear.

Mind you, I have at least 3 glaring errors from that movie, but that
wasn't any of them.

Although I do think Spock should have grabbed a HELMET when he
grabbed the gloves. He still would have been dead, but he was more
likely to survive long enough to complete the jury-rigging
(the temporary repair.)

what where the other errors. i don't watch the wok to much. it not one of my favorites.

1) The Reliant's survey mission. When entering the system and approaching
Seti Alpha 6, nobody did a scan of the solar system and accounted for all
the planets? If they had, they would have discovered one was MISSING.

2) Starfleet's seriously overconfident in their transporter technology,
especially since they can kill you or worse.
"Ceti Alpha 6" was hard to scan. So, it is unsafe to beam to-since they can't
safely scan, nor monitor the away team.
So, what you do is:
You prepare a shuttlepod. You cover it with sensors and BROADCASTING
equipment. The team flies the shuttlepod to the surface. Once there, they
light up the shuttlepod's systems. Now, there's an ACTIVE scan system
to interface with the Reliant. Now the Reliant can scan the area, and remain
in constant radio contact with the away team.

3) There was no way to determine if the team was in trouble, and no way to
get them to safety.
So, what you do is:
You set up and use the shuttlepod I just described. If Starfleet doesn't have
the Emergency Transporter Armband, then you use subcutaneous
transponders, and monitor the team continuously. That way, at the first sign
of trouble, you can beam them directly to the shutlepod, then use the
synchronized shuttlepod's transporter and the Reliant's transporter to beam
the away team off the planet.

Short movie. smile  

[Matt Pniewski]

Steel Sterling

Curtis25

Steel Sterling

Curtis25

I was watching STII today and something so obvious hit me that i felt really stupid. Shouldn't Saavic while watching Spock being loaded into the torpedo spoken up and said "hey i'm a Vulcan and we can't do this he has to go to Vulcan". Did i miss something?

Here's how I see it.

Saavik knew Spock had died isolated, so his katra should have been
destroyed. So, the only thing left (as she thought) was an empty shell.

That's why a Vulcan actually shed a tear as Spock was "buried"-
his DESTRUCTION was so profoundly tragic and sad for any Vulcan-
especially someone she knew- that she felt enough emotion to shed
a tear.

Mind you, I have at least 3 glaring errors from that movie, but that
wasn't any of them.

Although I do think Spock should have grabbed a HELMET when he
grabbed the gloves. He still would have been dead, but he was more
likely to survive long enough to complete the jury-rigging
(the temporary repair.)

what where the other errors. i don't watch the wok to much. it not one of my favorites.

1) The Reliant's survey mission. When entering the system and approaching
Seti Alpha 6, nobody did a scan of the solar system and accounted for all
the planets? If they had, they would have discovered one was MISSING.

2) Starfleet's seriously overconfident in their transporter technology,
especially since they can kill you or worse.
"Ceti Alpha 6" was hard to scan. So, it is unsafe to beam to-since they can't
safely scan, nor monitor the away team.
So, what you do is:
You prepare a shuttlepod. You cover it with sensors and BROADCASTING
equipment. The team flies the shuttlepod to the surface. Once there, they
light up the shuttlepod's systems. Now, there's an ACTIVE scan system
to interface with the Reliant. Now the Reliant can scan the area, and remain
in constant radio contact with the away team.

3) There was no way to determine if the team was in trouble, and no way to
get them to safety.
So, what you do is:
You set up and use the shuttlepod I just described. If Starfleet doesn't have
the Emergency Transporter Armband, then you use subcutaneous
transponders, and monitor the team continuously. That way, at the first sign
of trouble, you can beam them directly to the shutlepod, then use the
synchronized shuttlepod's transporter and the Reliant's transporter to beam
the away team off the planet.

Short movie. smile

Also, Chekov was not part of the crew when they met Khan. This was explained only via Retroactive Continuity, which is another way of saying "We screwed up, pretend we didn't."

All that being said, Wrath of Khan was still probably the best of the originals. It worked as an action film and as a smart sci fi film.  

[Steel Sterling]

Chekov was not part of the bridge crew at the time. He may have been on the ship
in another section.

As an SF film, I think it's a lot of fun.
I just don't pretend there aren't flaws, but I still enjoy the movie.  

[xXSuperWhateverXx]

Personally I thought the movie was great.
It puzzles me how Spock didn't get something aside from gloves at the end. I figured it was his human side trying to get it done and over with.  

[Matt Pniewski]

xXSuperWhateverXx

Personally I thought the movie was great.
It puzzles me how Spock didn't get something aside from gloves at the end. I figured it was his human side trying to get it done and over with.

It bothers me that nobody even thought to just put on a Radiation Suit, period.  

[Steel Sterling]

xXSuperWhateverXx

Personally I thought the movie was great.
It puzzles me how Spock didn't get something aside from gloves at the end. I figured it was his human side trying to get it done and over with.

I really liked that Engineering HAD radiation suits. That was a VERY sensible
precaution.

Spock was DEFINITELY in a hurry. "Scotty, I need Warp Drive within 3 minutes
or we're all dead."

I know why he didn't stop to put on a whole suit- that may have taken all of his
remaining time. I expected a few more seconds to throw on a helmet or pull
a crewman over to put a radiation shirt over him fast. No matter what, I
expected whoever went in there would die, but I would have wanted to make
sure I survived long enough to complete the jury-rig repairs.  

[Matt Pniewski]

Also, Khan was put into suspended animation in the mid nineties.

He woke up, tried to take over the Enterprise, and was marooned on Ceti Alpha Five.

He took over the Reliant, attacked Kirk.

He informed Kirk that "there is a Klingon Proverb". This means that Khan not only magically knew what a Klingon was, he knew ALOT about what Klingons were, including proverbs, religions, mythology, ect. I can accept him having the ability to find out about a Klingon while read info in the Enterprise Sickbay (though, since he was reading up on taking over the Enterprise, I doubt he checked into it much), but not learn enough to be able to quote their literature.  

[Curtis25]

Matt Pniewski

Also, Khan was put into suspended animation in the mid nineties.

He woke up, tried to take over the Enterprise, and was marooned on Ceti Alpha Five.

He took over the Reliant, attacked Kirk.

He informed Kirk that "there is a Klingon Proverb". This means that Khan not only magically knew what a Klingon was, he knew ALOT about what Klingons were, including proverbs, religions, mythology, ect. I can accept him having the ability to find out about a Klingon while read info in the Enterprise Sickbay (though, since he was reading up on taking over the Enterprise, I doubt he checked into it much), but not learn enough to be able to quote their literature.

He could have read up on alot of stuff after he took over Reliant. it wasn't like he took over and immediatly attacked Kirk. there was travel time.  

[Matt Pniewski]

Curtis25

Matt Pniewski

Also, Khan was put into suspended animation in the mid nineties.

He woke up, tried to take over the Enterprise, and was marooned on Ceti Alpha Five.

He took over the Reliant, attacked Kirk.

He informed Kirk that "there is a Klingon Proverb". This means that Khan not only magically knew what a Klingon was, he knew ALOT about what Klingons were, including proverbs, religions, mythology, ect. I can accept him having the ability to find out about a Klingon while read info in the Enterprise Sickbay (though, since he was reading up on taking over the Enterprise, I doubt he checked into it much), but not learn enough to be able to quote their literature.

He could have read up on alot of stuff after he took over Reliant. it wasn't like he took over and immediatly attacked Kirk. there was travel time.

When was there Time Travel?

Extended Universe is not Cannon, if that's where your explanation comes from.

EDIT: I read that as Time Travel, not Travel Time.


Be that as it may, this is still not enough time for him to get aquanted with the entire universe, especially if his time has been dedicated to learning bout the Genesis device.  

[Steel Sterling]

It's possible they were stranded with some decent hard-copy books and so on.
We know a FEW books were in sight,
If so, Khan probably read and re-read them all over the years.

One might mention a Klingon proverb under any of a variety of circumstances.